Author Topic: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?  (Read 13924 times)

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kareng57

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2013, 11:29:00 PM »
I absolutely agree with bah12.

OP, you stated that they are making it exceedingly difficult for people to attend.  I would offer that the goal is not to make it difficult for people to attend, but rather to have the wedding they want.  A side effect may be that fewer people can come, but to read a message in it is uncharitable.


I don't disagree, but I honestly wonder how they can budget for this kind of wedding, where they seem to be figuring that the majority of invitees will not attend.

Of course, that can also occur when overseas guests are invited - but when a wedding is in North America and many family invitees are in Italy - it's probably fair to make an educated guess that that most (especially if they are fairly elderly) will not be able to attend.  But I think it's a lot trickier when it's within driving distance for a lot of guests, even if the date (weekday) is not great, and the most accessible accommodations are pretty rustic.  So they might figure that 30% of their guests will say "yes" - but what happens if it turns out to be 70%?

iridaceae

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2013, 08:16:45 AM »
The first thing is that I am not offended nor did I say that I was. Disappointed, yes. At least in my world, weddings serve as mini-reunions (so much better than those at funerals), and it would have been the first time all of the newest generation of cousins would have had a chance to meet since most were not born at his DS's wedding four years ago. I know I'd love to meet all the new little ones and that the parents would love to show them.


I think the thing people are noticing is that nowhere in the block of text above do you mention the wedding itself,  the bride's side of the family or anything else wedding-related.

Personally I'd Hate to find out that my wedding was seen more as a chance for the family to gave a mini-reunion (with the implication ghat the groom's family is to be ignored) than as a chance to,  you know,  celebrate my wedding.

Dr. F.

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2013, 08:28:42 AM »
Threads like this make me absolutely, positively CERTAIN that, should I ever get married (cue hysterical laughter), I will elope. Weddings are just not worth the angst.

dawbs

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2013, 08:38:31 AM »
OP, it really sounds like you don't like these relatives.

There are, more or less, 8 pages here of ehellions saying that they 'get' the frustration but, really, the bride and groom are doing nothing wrong by not having completely filled out the wedding website, by possibly accommodating what its 'done' by the bride's side, by making plans for a location important to them, for possibly having reasons you don't know about, and for planning the wedding they want to have instead of the wedding some of their family wants them to have.

And your response has been to say that you 'get' that...and then imply they are gift-grabby, self-centered, and deliberately snubbing you.


RingTailedLemur

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #124 on: April 11, 2013, 11:02:02 AM »
I agree.  OP, you do sound extremely offended and angry in your posts.

bah12

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2013, 11:03:26 AM »
My question was do all of these choices send the message that having many of their friends and relatives at the wedding was not a priority for them and that they would prefer to keep it small and intimate and it was better for family relationships to achieve that by making it difficult for many people to attend and so they will decline rather than not inviting them.


After your update, I still say that the choices say that this location was the most important to them (hence the willingness to get married on a weekday vs. a weekend somewhere else).  And this choice does mean that the wedding will undoubtably be smaller and more intimate had they made different choices.  But, it sounds like you are accusing them of not wanting you (and others) to come to their wedding at all and instead of just not inviting you, they are deliberately making choices to force you to decline.  I have a hard time seeing how/why someone would go through this much trouble (travel, pick a weekday, etc).  Is your family so intent that *everyone* be invited and get so insulted when they're not that this couple would feel the need to go through all this extra trouble?  It seems unlikely, though I guess, not impossible.

I get why you would be disappointed if you were thinking that this wedding would be an opportunity to meet/see the extended family and I even understand that this is the norm for your family.  But, I do think that it's an unrealistic expectation to put on this couple.  Surely, hosting everyone in the extended family (add friends, the brides whole extended family...to be fair..etc) can get expensive.  And it may just not be the atmosphere they are going for.   I think it's much kinder that unless given evidence otherwise, you assume that you were invited because they would like you to be there on their wedding day.  And the location was picked solely because it's the place where they want to be married.

As for the misspelling and no last names and the lack of information on the website, etc...I'll give it to you that maybe they are sloppy in their organization and their coordination of this wedding.   But, that just makes them poor planners/organizers, not people deliberately trying to keep you from attending their wedding.  The easiest way to do that would be to just not invite you.

There's a bible verse that says, "Where your heart is, there your treasure will be," and IME this has proven to be true. If something is important to you, you take the time to do it correctly. If I want you to get a piece of mail, perhaps I make a mistake in the spelling of your name or your street number, but I will put your last name on it.  Unless I'm six and sending it to Grammy and Grandpa. I think omitting last names takes a little more than disorganization.

I do not think that the B and G deliberately set out to find a way to invite people but not have them attend, but when you select a date and your parents and siblings, with whom you are very close, tell you that your choice will mean that there will be several people who do not come and many others who will be very inconvenienced by doing so and you decide to do so anyway, what else is to be assumed other than that the location is more important than having those people attend?  And, once more, there is nothing wrong with that.

And as for it being easier just to not invite you, that's true, but that might also mean fewer wedding gifts. Their wedding web site pages are all blank - those meant to detail how they met, photos, the wedding party, details about accommodations in the area except for the C of C link to the list of B&Bs, and information about the ceremony and reception, but the registry pages are completely filled out, with details about the $200 Le Creuset pans and $200 coffee maker they'd like as well as their honeymoon fund.

I'm finding it hard to equate that this is a cousin that you are so fond of (from your OP) and also someone who you think, without question, would purposely plan an entire wedding to specifically exclude all his family members all the while getting expensive gifts from them.  And if his family is paying for a large portion of it and allowing this "terrible" behavior, then they are just as guilty, right?

If you can acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with them choosing the wedding they want over the wedding that you expect them to have, then I don't see the problem.  If them not having the large, family reunion type wedding that you are accostomed to makes it difficult for you to respect their choices and just be happy for them, then you're better off not going and not sending a gift.   And the end of the day, this wedding really is about them.  It doesn't matter that all the focus will not be on them all the time.  It doesn't have to be for it to still be about them.  It doesn't matter that they have an obligation to the guests that are able to come to make sure that they are fed, comfortable, and enjoying themselves.  They can meet all those obligations and still throw the wedding that makes them the happiest.  And it seems to be a wedding at a State Park on an Island on a Thursday.  And it even seems that they wanted you to attend, because they sent you a STD card. 

And, I'm really having a hard time understanding how not putting your last name on the card is evidence that all they want is gifts.  Last names don't have to be on envelopes to receive mail.  But even if they did, and the goal was for you to never get the card(seems like a waste of stamp, when they could just lie about sending you one), then it can't possibly be a gift grab.  How would you know to buy them a gift?  And, to me, this is the most frustrating because we are talking about STD cards, not actual invites.  STD cards, IME, are sent out early in the planning stage (when the date and location are known), so people can keep their calendars clear, not when every single detail of the wedding has been worked out.  Maybe their website isn't completed yet.  Maybe all the plans aren't set in stone right now. (And again, not filling in how they met is just missing fluff, not evidence that they are trying to exclude you.)

Bottom line, you got a STD card with the date and location of the wedding in the mail.  This does not equal behavior of someone that is trying to exclude you from their wedding.  If your family is not important enough to consider working around their preferences when choosing a date and a location, why would they be important enough to go through all this planning and effort to make it appear like you're invited when in reality you aren't welcome at all?

Hmmmmm

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2013, 11:41:49 AM »
MammaVan, I get where you are coming from. But I think a lot of readers were immediately put off the the phrase of "sending a message" which implies an overt act of trying to indicate desires without actually saying it.  I don't think you believe your nephew is actively saying "don't come to my wedding, I don't want you ."

For the readers who think she is mad, upset, and disgruntled about the wedding format.  What if instead she had stated the below?

My dear nephew is getting married later in the year. Our family takes great effort to try and attend all weddings. It's a time to show support of the new couple, welcome the new family member, and get a chance to visit with other families. It is sort of taken for granted that everyone will try their best to attend the weddings. This groom's older sister married a few years ago and most of the family was in attendance.

We received our save the date card last week and now I'm concerned. The wedding will be on a Thursday at a state park cross country from where most of our family and the bride's lives. From the enclosed information there seems to be very little options for accomodations close to the park. Also, many of our family works in education or has children in school and taking time off during the week during the school year is a big hardship for many.

We don't want the groom, or his parents who are helping pay for the wedding, to feel slighted by a small family turn out. But based on the logistics involved it sounds like they are probably prepared for that outcome.

I suggested to other family members that the bride and groom have selected a location that is important to them and they are aware they'll have fewer family members in attendance? But many of them are still feeling guilty about not attending.


I think the majority of you would say "The B&G planned a wedding they wanted and aren't expecting a large turn out of family and probably doesn't care if family attends."

bah12

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2013, 11:46:04 AM »
MammaVan, I get where you are coming from. But I think a lot of readers were immediately put off the the phrase of "sending a message" which implies an overt act of trying to indicate desires without actually saying it.  I don't think you believe your nephew is actively saying "don't come to my wedding, I don't want you ."

For the readers who think she is mad, upset, and disgruntled about the wedding format.  What if instead she had stated the below?

My dear nephew is getting married later in the year. Our family takes great effort to try and attend all weddings. It's a time to show support of the new couple, welcome the new family member, and get a chance to visit with other families. It is sort of taken for granted that everyone will try their best to attend the weddings. This groom's older sister married a few years ago and most of the family was in attendance.

We received our save the date card last week and now I'm concerned. The wedding will be on a Thursday at a state park cross country from where most of our family and the bride's lives. From the enclosed information there seems to be very little options for accomodations close to the park. Also, many of our family works in education or has children in school and taking time off during the week during the school year is a big hardship for many.

We don't want the groom, or his parents who are helping pay for the wedding, to feel slighted by a small family turn out. But based on the logistics involved it sounds like they are probably prepared for that outcome.

I suggested to other family members that the bride and groom have selected a location that is important to them and they are aware they'll have fewer family members in attendance? But many of them are still feeling guilty about not attending.


I think the majority of you would say "The B&G planned a wedding they wanted and aren't expecting a large turn out of family and probably doesn't care if family attends."

Well, that would have sounded a lot better...because it is her worried about sending a message to them (not wanting to be there to support them) that wasn't true vs what she actually said...which was an accusation that they were purposely planning a wedding to exclude the family but still get gifts from them.

Hmmmmm

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #128 on: April 11, 2013, 12:00:06 PM »
MammaVan, I get where you are coming from. But I think a lot of readers were immediately put off the the phrase of "sending a message" which implies an overt act of trying to indicate desires without actually saying it.  I don't think you believe your nephew is actively saying "don't come to my wedding, I don't want you ."

For the readers who think she is mad, upset, and disgruntled about the wedding format.  What if instead she had stated the below?

My dear nephew is getting married later in the year. Our family takes great effort to try and attend all weddings. It's a time to show support of the new couple, welcome the new family member, and get a chance to visit with other families. It is sort of taken for granted that everyone will try their best to attend the weddings. This groom's older sister married a few years ago and most of the family was in attendance.

We received our save the date card last week and now I'm concerned. The wedding will be on a Thursday at a state park cross country from where most of our family and the bride's lives. From the enclosed information there seems to be very little options for accomodations close to the park. Also, many of our family works in education or has children in school and taking time off during the week during the school year is a big hardship for many.

We don't want the groom, or his parents who are helping pay for the wedding, to feel slighted by a small family turn out. But based on the logistics involved it sounds like they are probably prepared for that outcome.

I suggested to other family members that the bride and groom have selected a location that is important to them and they are aware they'll have fewer family members in attendance? But many of them are still feeling guilty about not attending.


I think the majority of you would say "The B&G planned a wedding they wanted and aren't expecting a large turn out of family and probably doesn't care if family attends."

Well, that would have sounded a lot better...because it is her worried about sending a message to them (not wanting to be there to support them) that wasn't true vs what she actually said...which was an accusation that they were purposely planning a wedding to exclude the family but still get gifts from them.

I think it's all in interpretation because what I wrote is how I read her first post with a few added details from her second.

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #129 on: April 11, 2013, 01:05:13 PM »
There is no problem with flying across the country to attend the wedding; it's where they live and an area we have been looking forward to visiting. 

One thing that's been bothering me is that this is being referred to as a "destination" wedding but it's not.  Not for the HC anyway.  It's where they live.  Yes, it's across the country from most of the groom's family (what about the bride's family?) but it's where the couple lives *now*.  A destination wedding, at least to me, is one where the HC has to travel to get to along with their guests.  Yes, it's in a national park and I'm sure they don't actually live in the national park but it's still local to them. 

When we got married, we had to travel about a half hour to get to our location and some of my family had to travel an hour.  My in laws had to travel several hours.  That doesn't mean that we had a destination wedding and I don't think any of my family would think that we had one either.  And yes, I realize that across the country is completely different than a couple of hours but I still don't think the HC having a wedding at a location near their home makes it a destination wedding.
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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #130 on: April 11, 2013, 01:25:51 PM »
Mammavan wrote:
Quote
"Where your heart is, there your treasure will be," and IME this has proven to be true. If something is important to you, you take the time to do it correctly.

So what they are doing is wrong then?  Your idea of correct and theirs is obviously completely different.   You don't seem to be thinking that there is also the bride's family to consider and that they may have their own traditions that are quite different from yours. 

bah12

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #131 on: April 11, 2013, 02:19:40 PM »
There is no problem with flying across the country to attend the wedding; it's where they live and an area we have been looking forward to visiting. 

One thing that's been bothering me is that this is being referred to as a "destination" wedding but it's not.  Not for the HC anyway.  It's where they live.  Yes, it's across the country from most of the groom's family (what about the bride's family?) but it's where the couple lives *now*.  A destination wedding, at least to me, is one where the HC has to travel to get to along with their guests.  Yes, it's in a national park and I'm sure they don't actually live in the national park but it's still local to them. 

When we got married, we had to travel about a half hour to get to our location and some of my family had to travel an hour.  My in laws had to travel several hours.  That doesn't mean that we had a destination wedding and I don't think any of my family would think that we had one either.  And yes, I realize that across the country is completely different than a couple of hours but I still don't think the HC having a wedding at a location near their home makes it a destination wedding.

I think I'm the one that started using that term and I called it that because the OP said that the wedding is in a State Park on an island.  Where I seriously doubt they live.  I didn't see the OP say that this wedding is near their home...but if it is, then that makes the "message" that they are purposely excluding their relatives even crazier.  If they are planning a wedding convenient to where they live, then the message is more likely "we are planning a wedding that is near us.  It makes no sense for us to plan and coordinate a wedding near the grooms family because it's too far to do that effectively."  Not "We refuse to plan a wedding far away from us because we don't want the grooms family to come.  We'll invite them, but will make it difficult for them to attend." 

bah12

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #132 on: April 11, 2013, 02:35:22 PM »
MammaVan, I get where you are coming from. But I think a lot of readers were immediately put off the the phrase of "sending a message" which implies an overt act of trying to indicate desires without actually saying it.  I don't think you believe your nephew is actively saying "don't come to my wedding, I don't want you ."

For the readers who think she is mad, upset, and disgruntled about the wedding format.  What if instead she had stated the below?

My dear nephew is getting married later in the year. Our family takes great effort to try and attend all weddings. It's a time to show support of the new couple, welcome the new family member, and get a chance to visit with other families. It is sort of taken for granted that everyone will try their best to attend the weddings. This groom's older sister married a few years ago and most of the family was in attendance.

We received our save the date card last week and now I'm concerned. The wedding will be on a Thursday at a state park cross country from where most of our family and the bride's lives. From the enclosed information there seems to be very little options for accomodations close to the park. Also, many of our family works in education or has children in school and taking time off during the week during the school year is a big hardship for many.

We don't want the groom, or his parents who are helping pay for the wedding, to feel slighted by a small family turn out. But based on the logistics involved it sounds like they are probably prepared for that outcome.

I suggested to other family members that the bride and groom have selected a location that is important to them and they are aware they'll have fewer family members in attendance? But many of them are still feeling guilty about not attending.


I think the majority of you would say "The B&G planned a wedding they wanted and aren't expecting a large turn out of family and probably doesn't care if family attends."

Well, that would have sounded a lot better...because it is her worried about sending a message to them (not wanting to be there to support them) that wasn't true vs what she actually said...which was an accusation that they were purposely planning a wedding to exclude the family but still get gifts from them.

I think it's all in interpretation because what I wrote is how I read her first post with a few added details from her second.

I wish I saw it that way, but going back and reading the posts, no where does she mention any concern for how she may be making the HC feel or worry that while she wants to support them, she can't because it's too difficult.  Instead, she talks about disappointment that this may not be an opportunity for a mini-reunion, that the accommodations (cabins) aren't conducive to those who fly in (even though they are already booked and therefore not an option anyway), the problems with the STD cards, and how this doesn't compare to the wedding she hosted for her daughter. 

Her issue is more to do with how they failed to meet her expectations vs. concern that she may not be able to meet theirs.  The only thing that comes close is the statement "we all flew to another continent for his brother, so there is an expectation for us to come to this one" with a follow on that he must not really want it (note: no statement like "I don't want him to feel slighted or be disappointed that we aren't there").  And it makes even less sense because if having a wedding on another continent wasn't too difficult for the mini-reunion and didn't send a message that family wasn't welcome, how could one a days drive away do so.  Because it's on a Thursday?

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #133 on: April 11, 2013, 02:44:05 PM »
Mammavan3, your updates do make it sound like you are upset and resentful.  They are having a wedding they want, which is so different from any wedding your family has ever seen.  That is ok.  Yeah, he screwed up on the STD cards, sounds like he has no clue how to address an envelope.  But you are taking every decision they make to heart...they don't have to tell people how they met on a wedding website, they can register for a chunk of heaven if they want, doesn't mean anyone HAS to get it for them, you are mad about the date, location, accommodations, and that it won't be a 3 day blowout family affair.  Maybe she has a small family and is intimidated by a large gathering, maybe they don't want children at their wedding.  Maybe you envision them to be closer to the family than they really are.  And just because the grooms family made a sizable contribution does NOT mean they have to do things the 'family' way.  They happened to be getting a sum of money  that the groom's brother received when he got married.  Maybe they are going to use it for their honeymoon or a down payment on a house.  Someone you love is getting married...be happy for them instead of trying to read between the lines.  They sent you a STD card, meaning you will get an invite...if there was a message, it would be no invite at all.

POD. If they didn't want you there, you likely would not have been notified of the wedding at all.

And to speak briefly to the family reunion aspect of it all- If one would like a family reunion, there is nothing stopping one from planning it. My DF's family was hoping to use our wedding as a reunion, which would have *doubled* our guest list and rendered our budget exploded. We gently explained that we were sorry, but it just wasn't possible. And I'll bet you a cookie that family members are going to be muttering about the message we sent when we put our feet down to have the wedding that we had originally planned for. Weddings are *weddings*, a day for the couple to celebrate with their loved ones their union. They're not family reunions.

As far as the who's-paying-what aspect- Well, actually, that doesn't matter. As stated in numerous places on this site, it's best to not assume anything about another's finances. It's money that was gifted to them, so they can use it any way they'd like.

It's difficult to read threads like this whilst planning a wedding. No matter what accommodations one makes, no matter how one bends, one can anticipate others taking offense where none was meant. Bacon in the brussels sprouts? Clearly you don't care that some of your guests don't eat pork. Non-traditional ceremony? Obviously, you don't want your more elderly or religious guests there. Wedsite not finished? Obviously, you don't want anyone to actually come.

Why not just be happy that these folks are getting married and would like to extend the invitation to share the day with you?
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jemma

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Re: S/O of The Postponing the Wedding thread - What's the message here?
« Reply #134 on: April 11, 2013, 02:51:19 PM »
Ah, addressing wedding invitations.  My best friend from high school is named Sara.  My mother feels she's a Sarah.  I corrected her name on our invitation list no joke five times, and had discussions 1,000,000 and 1,000,001 with my mother about how to spell her name.  Before my mom sent the invites to the printer, she corrected the spelling on Sara's name.  Fortunately, my friend is awesome and just assumed my mother did the invites.  That's not nearly as embarrassing as how I invited my fil's female relatives.  He gave us a list of names including Mr. And Mrs. Husband's name and wife's maiden name.  I addressed them to Mr. And Mrs husband's name and Miss wife's maiden name.  My husband and mil didn't catch it since those were familiar names.  So twenty guests were invited twice...  Unless you have evidence that your nephew has refused to learn your name because he doesn't care about you, the message sent there is that the bride's family wants you to come to the wedding since you are important to the groom