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Author Topic: telling people about others' bad behavior  (Read 12815 times)

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Sharnita

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2013, 08:35:06 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

AllTheThings

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 08:46:11 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

Well personally if it were totally up to me I would buy some commercial time and make use of it  ;)

Realistically of course, sometimes doing what I want to is not a good idea and can cause more problems and drama. Really my concern is that people will obviously know something is up. Someone is going to ask me questions about why we aren't friends. I do not like to keep secrets from my friends if I can avoid it. I'm also afraid that they will think I am being a jerk for no reason if they don't know what happened. If Carrie hadn't been quite as much of a scumbag I might be more inclined to let it go, but this was too horrifying. I'm also afraid that not saying anything when asked directly will be like protecting Carrie and her behavior. But on the other hand, the problem is past and nobody is in any immediate danger from Carrie's actions, so telling people who ask might cause too much trouble. So it's a real dilemma.

Poppea

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 08:46:24 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

This.  I wouldn't approve of her behavior, how I'm flummoxed as to how the chapter advisor is going to have any discussion with your former friend about her behavior in a bathroom.  Ditto the president.  It really seems like you are trying to tell as many people as possible.

snowdragon

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 08:49:18 PM »
Her behaviour is appalling. It's not your job to tell anyone, you're not her mommy and as unpopular as it is she is entitled to her opinion.  She's also entitled to feel safe in the bathroom - HOWEVER the way she should be handling the opposing issues is to only use single  occupant bathrooms.  Her issue, her responsibility to seek the solution out.

You've said your piece already to her, to the president and to the faculty advisor....anything else will smack of you trying to "ruin" her because she has an unpopular opinion.  Your "joke" just cements that feeling.

You're not a good match for friends anymore....but going around and telling folks why, will just put you on her level.

Poppea

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 08:49:28 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

Well personally if it were totally up to me I would buy some commercial time and make use of it  ;)

Realistically of course, sometimes doing what I want to is not a good idea and can cause more problems and drama. Really my concern is that people will obviously know something is up. Someone is going to ask me questions about why we aren't friends. I do not like to keep secrets from my friends if I can avoid it. I'm also afraid that they will think I am being a jerk for no reason if they don't know what happened. If Carrie hadn't been quite as much of a scumbag I might be more inclined to let it go, but this was too horrifying. I'm also afraid that not saying anything when asked directly will be like protecting Carrie and her behavior. But on the other hand, the problem is past and nobody is in any immediate danger from Carrie's actions, so telling people who ask might cause too much trouble. So it's a real dilemma.

This is obvious.  It seems to me that you are trying very hard to show just how very very openminded you are by the way you are broadcasting the incident.

bloo

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 08:53:08 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

Exactly. The ideal situation would be if you were able to have a rational discussion with her about her behavior. Personally I don't care about her feelings, just her behavior. Maybe she might have been able to understand. Or not. But at some point, hopefully she matures to where she can act appropriately, in spite of her feelings. Telling all and sundry about this incident will actually hamper possible growth, maturity and change and will definitely not reflect well on you.

Sure, to your face people will agree that her behavior was horrible but I notice when people tell the same story to other people and it's repeated ("Did you hear about Carrie flipping out in front of AllTheThings? Oh...you did? AllTheThings already told you?") and it will, eventually, not reflect well on you. Let it die, let her grow up and this will free you to move on to fostering your other, more mature relationships.

EllenS

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2013, 08:55:33 PM »
You have spoken to the people that you should.  There will be consequences for her actions.  She may, in fact, already have learned something from your reaction and the reactions of the president & advisor.  At this point, let her learn and give her room to change. 

Anything you say to a third party at this point, becomes gossiping about Carrie behind her back, and tears down any moral authority you had.  It is not your job to punish Carrie or seek revenge on someone else's behalf.  If someone were to ask you, for example, "would you recommend Carrie as an ambassador for the fraternity", then of course you should say "no, I cannot do that."  If someone asks you directly why you are not friends, do not create drama, just beandip.

The natural consequences of her behavior are that decent people will distance themselves when they see how she acts.    If you start spreading ugly stories about someone - even if they are true - people will distance themselves from you, too.  Someday you, too, will do something you are ashamed of.  Please treat her as you would like to be treated yourself, if you did something you were horribly embarassed about later.

Sharnita

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2013, 08:56:13 PM »
It sounds like you are looking to punish her.  Society has not nominated you for that job, nor have you been given the go ahead to throw the first stone.  Yes, she behaved badly.  You are going to run into a lot of people in life who behave badly. Nobody needs you to hand out the torches and pitchforks.  Her character won't change and others will figure out who she is without you making sure she gets hers.  Eagerness to tell everybody how badly she behaved doesn;t reflect badly on her alone - you are going to come off as vindictive.  If somebody asks, "We are really opposed on what I consider some fundamental issues. That's really all I care to say."

bloo

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2013, 08:59:16 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

Well personally if it were totally up to me I would buy some commercial time and make use of it  ;)

Realistically of course, sometimes doing what I want to is not a good idea and can cause more problems and drama. Really my concern is that people will obviously know something is up. Someone is going to ask me questions about why we aren't friends. I do not like to keep secrets from my friends if I can avoid it. I'm also afraid that they will think I am being a jerk for no reason if they don't know what happened. If Carrie hadn't been quite as much of a scumbag I might be more inclined to let it go, but this was too horrifying. I'm also afraid that not saying anything when asked directly will be like protecting Carrie and her behavior. But on the other hand, the problem is past and nobody is in any immediate danger from Carrie's actions, so telling people who ask might cause too much trouble. So it's a real dilemma.

Per the bolded: It's fine to want to be an honest person that doesn't keep secrets.

So don't look at this as being 'secretive'. Look at it as being 'discreet'.

Because in 'not keeping secrets' you will then be engaged in vicious gossip. Even if the gossip is true. And that always comes back to bite you.

NyaChan

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2013, 09:03:23 PM »
I can understand your urge to say something.  It is really hard to know something like this and not tell the people who you know and know her.  Trust me when I say that the initial rush and sense of doing the right thing by letting people know the kind of person she is will not last - plus, can you tell me with complete certainty that this one incident sums up the entirety of who Carrie is?  She behaved badly, she seems to hold views that I personally find troubling.  But does that one belief which may well fade or change with education and awareness mean she should be branded a bigot in public for now and forever?  Because trust me, that's the sort of thing people won't forget easily.  They also won't forget that you were the one who shared this story for no other reason than to shame her - I mean to say, if people haven't seen this part of her already, it likely has little bearing on their interaction with her, so why would you spread it beyond the people who you already (and rightly) did share it with?

AllTheThings

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2013, 09:08:10 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

This.  I wouldn't approve of her behavior, how I'm flummoxed as to how the chapter advisor is going to have any discussion with your former friend about her behavior in a bathroom.  Ditto the president.  It really seems like you are trying to tell as many people as possible.

It's because she was representing the fraternity when it happened. If we had just been hanging out on a regular day, I would not have told them. However, she embarrassed the fraternity. Maybe that girl complained and we won't be allowed back? Even if she didn't, nobody should be acting badly when they are wearing letters and representing the group. There has been precedent for people getting in trouble for bad behavior while representing the frat before, so there is a good chance they will punish her.

Sharnita

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2013, 09:15:28 PM »
Well if you found out about the bad behavior/punishment of others when it was handled through official channels before, why not entrust it to the official channels again?  If they decide to punish her and do it in a way that is "on the record" then her infractions will be made known to everyone through the frat authorities.  If they decide that isn't how they want to approach it then you making it public might garner a bit of disfavor toward you.

snowdragon

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2013, 09:20:21 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

This.  I wouldn't approve of her behavior, how I'm flummoxed as to how the chapter advisor is going to have any discussion with your former friend about her behavior in a bathroom.  Ditto the president.  It really seems like you are trying to tell as many people as possible.

It's because she was representing the fraternity when it happened. If we had just been hanging out on a regular day, I would not have told them. However, she embarrassed the fraternity. Maybe that girl complained and we won't be allowed back? Even if she didn't, nobody should be acting badly when they are wearing letters and representing the group. There has been precedent for people getting in trouble for bad behavior while representing the frat before, so there is a good chance they will punish her.

Honestly, It seems to me that you are looking for ways to ruin her, to punish her yourself, so excuse me for having doubts that you would not have told them. As for how the people you told on her to, how they proceed is no concern of yours.

How she handles herself in herself, is not your business

How you handle it - is the only thing you need concern yourself with. And really, you've done more than you should have already. It sounds more and more to me that you want to punish her yourself and you want that approach validated.  Most of us ( if not all) are saying we won't validate that approach.

 What you are doing is acting exactly like Carrie...you may not be screaming at her, but you are doing everything you can to justify pointing out that she is different from you and making her face whatever consequence you feel is correct for her being different.

You've lost all moral high ground that you ever had,, as far as I am concerned.

AllTheThings

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2013, 09:20:42 PM »
I don't get the "not saying anything".  You said somethign directly to Carrie.  You said something to the president and to the faculty advisor.  How many people will you need to tell before you have achieved "saying anything"?

Well personally if it were totally up to me I would buy some commercial time and make use of it  ;)

Realistically of course, sometimes doing what I want to is not a good idea and can cause more problems and drama. Really my concern is that people will obviously know something is up. Someone is going to ask me questions about why we aren't friends. I do not like to keep secrets from my friends if I can avoid it. I'm also afraid that they will think I am being a jerk for no reason if they don't know what happened. If Carrie hadn't been quite as much of a scumbag I might be more inclined to let it go, but this was too horrifying. I'm also afraid that not saying anything when asked directly will be like protecting Carrie and her behavior. But on the other hand, the problem is past and nobody is in any immediate danger from Carrie's actions, so telling people who ask might cause too much trouble. So it's a real dilemma.

This is obvious.  It seems to me that you are trying very hard to show just how very very openminded you are by the way you are broadcasting the incident.

I could respond to this statement by telling you all about my multitude of transgender friends and how this is a big deal for me and my number one cause, but it would not by true. I have barely any transgender people at all (that I know of) and I concentrate on other social issues besides the right of transgender people to use the right bathroom. I just think it is really bad to yell and scream and insult a complete stranger who is only trying to clean their hands. I don't think you have to be that open minded to have a problem with that.

Would I like to punish her? Yeah, of course! Whenever someone does something to purposely make me extremely upset I would love to tell everyone all about how awful this person is and how we should all tell them off for being so mean. I'm a human being, and I don't think this is an unrealistic thing to want. Do I actually do this? Of course not, that's crazy! The commercial thing was a joke, I'm only undecided on whether I should tell people, my good friends, who will actively come to me and want to know what happened with Carrie. I can understand why this would be a bad idea. But that won't stop me from wanting it, or possibly having some ethical issue with not telling people.

I would appreciate if instead of making wild assumptions about my thoughts and reflections on the situation, you would instead focus on the course of action I should take, which is after all, what etiquette is concerned with, as well as the question I actually asked.

Sharnita

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Re: telling people about others' bad behavior
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2013, 09:23:45 PM »
If somebody asks, "We are really opposed on what I consider some fundamental issues. That's really all I care to say."  If they press then you can explain in an effort to improve yourself you are not going to talk about others behind their back.



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