Author Topic: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)  (Read 5556 times)

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sweetonsno

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 12:25:22 PM »
I do believe that it would be wise to check with the laws in your neighborhood and community. It doesn't matter if everyone else is violating the rule as well. If the complaint comes in for your pet, you're the one who is going to get the ticket (or have your pet picked up).

I guess I would look at it this way: your neighbor has alerted you to the fact that Sam has been a nuisance on her property on two separate occasions. She has (presumably) asked you to keep him under control. If you decide to do nothing, I don't think she has any obligation to inform you again if he creates a problem. While it would not be particularly nice for her to call animal control, I don't think it would be rude. This goes doubly if there's a law or rule in place. I agree with MindsEye. If there is a law in place, the neighbor has already fulfilled her etiquette obligation by talking with the neighbor prior to bringing it up with the appropriate authorities.

I also vote for a kitty run. You can get the whole thing put together quite cheaply. You can pick up some wire mesh fencing at the hardware store. You don't need to get posts, as it stands up by itself. However, you should probably invest in a few stakes to keep it close to the ground. My cat figured out how to crawl under pretty quickly.

WillyNilly

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 12:28:54 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

The OP mentions there are several cats in the area. Some are probably not even pets, just semi-feral outdoor cats that live in the area. A cat is no more rude then a squirrel or a bird or a field mouse - animals live in the world. And they all poop. All anyone can do is control inside their own home and even then its only to a certain degree.

EllenS

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 12:31:31 PM »
I agree that the controlling factor here is the local law, which OP should observe.

In the area where I live, animals walking across or existing on your property (which is basically what the neighbor complained about) is not considered a "nuisance" at the level where Animal Control would get involved.  YMMV.

Possum

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 12:35:53 PM »
I adopted a cat who had been a barn cat.  She was mean, cranky, and didn't like having to stay inside all the time.  She'd constantly try to get out when I was entering or exiting the apartment, and I had to be careful she didn't get onto the balcony, lest she take the two-story leap to try and run away.

It took time, but she gradually got used to being inside.  She still would do her daily attempt to leave when I was coming in (I had to put my foot in the door and shake it before opening the door) or going out, and I couldn't take her on the balcony unless I was holding her, but the one time she *did* run out, I scolded her and she ran right back inside. 

If I'd let her run loose, she might've lived a few years longer.  Instead, she had over a decade with me.  No worries about being hit by cars, mauled by another animal, stolen by someone, taken by the animal control truck, picking up distemper, no fleas, and no mysterious injuries that wind up killing her.  (My first cat used to scrap with all the neighborhood cats, and one particularly unfortunate scratch abscessed into his skull and killed him.)

Keeping a cat indoors is much like not letting your kids have ice cream for dinner every night.  Yeah, it makes them upset, but they'll be happier, healthier, and better off for it.

If you still want her to have some outside time, get her accustomed to a harness and leash.  Some cats will never take to it, but some find it almost as exciting as a dog would!

Punky B.

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 12:36:23 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

I have the same issues with the neighbor cats and completely agree.  Outdoor cats can cause inconvenience and damage, but we're just expected to deal with it because "that's what cats do"- I would never let my dogs poo in someone's yard/mark their door but am expected to deal with it from cats.  It stinks and it's unsanitary.  Pets need to be supervised.

EllenS

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2013, 12:46:23 PM »
I would just like to point out that the OP's neighbor did not say anything about the cat's elimination habits.  I realize other people have a problem with that, but this neighbor apparently does not (or she has not gotten far enough down the list of possible complaints yet).

snowdragon

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2013, 12:48:49 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

I have the same issues with the neighbor cats and completely agree.  Outdoor cats can cause inconvenience and damage, but we're just expected to deal with it because "that's what cats do"- I would never let my dogs poo in someone's yard/mark their door but am expected to deal with it from cats.  It stinks and it's unsanitary.  Pets need to be supervised.

This and the first time it happened I would approach the cat owner with " I know there are several cats around, but I wanted to let you know, since you're a neighbor - the next time I find cat poo/distruction in my yard, I am calling animal control."  and go from there. Frankly,  I don't have a pet because I don't want to deal with the poop, I should not have to deal with it from anyone else's pet.
Dog's are kept on a leash - cats should have to be leashed too.

turnip

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2013, 12:55:57 PM »
I would just like to point out that the OP's neighbor did not say anything about the cat's elimination habits.  I realize other people have a problem with that, but this neighbor apparently does not (or she has not gotten far enough down the list of possible complaints yet).

I've never said anything to my neighbors.   My experience with cat owners suggests it wouldn't be fruitful.   Just because no one is complaining about cleaning after the OPs cat doesn't mean no one is inconvenienced by cleaning up after the OPs cat. 

I can't imagine what etiquette rule would say it is OK for other people to clean up your pet's droppings, therefore I can't imagine what etiquette rule would say it is OK to have an outdoor cat.   If the OP wants to avoid being rude, she should keep her cat indoors.

turnip

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2013, 12:58:47 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

The OP mentions there are several cats in the area. Some are probably not even pets, just semi-feral outdoor cats that live in the area. A cat is no more rude then a squirrel or a bird or a field mouse - animals live in the world. And they all poop. All anyone can do is control inside their own home and even then its only to a certain degree.


My babies poop.  Is there any circumstances under which we would say it was OK for other people to have to deal with their poop?   I'm fairly confident the answer is 'no'.   All we can do is control what is in our home, but if on an etiquette board someone asks what to do to avoid being rude and inconveniencing others, I think the answer is very plainly "keep your cat inside."

WillyNilly

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2013, 01:09:21 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

The OP mentions there are several cats in the area. Some are probably not even pets, just semi-feral outdoor cats that live in the area. A cat is no more rude then a squirrel or a bird or a field mouse - animals live in the world. And they all poop. All anyone can do is control inside their own home and even then its only to a certain degree.


My babies poop.  Is there any circumstances under which we would say it was OK for other people to have to deal with their poop?   I'm fairly confident the answer is 'no'.   All we can do is control what is in our home, but if on an etiquette board someone asks what to do to avoid being rude and inconveniencing others, I think the answer is very plainly "keep your cat inside."

Well I respectfully disagree. I don't think its rude to let an animal live a free life. The world belongs to all creatures not just humans, and clearly the cat has no interest or desire in living an indoor life and forcing such confinement on the animal IMO would be cruel. If there are laws that forbid it, so be it, the OP should follow the laws, but if there aren't then its not rude. If the neighbor dislikes the roaming animals she shoudl write to her politicians and ask for a change in the local laws.

And I have to deal with other people's babies and their inconveniences on a daily basis. I have to navigate around high chairs in restaurants put in the pathway (like at the end of a booth) and smell their discarded diapers in the trashcans of public restrooms, and hear their squeals and chatter out in public and get stuck behind them walking painfully slowly on narrow sidewalks or down public stairways. Its part of life in the world with other living creatures and I don't mind it, it is what it is.

If cats weren't pooping in your garden then mice, squirrels, raccoons, deer, possums or whatever is indigenous to your area would be. That's simply the reality of the world. No matter what some animal is going to defecate in your yard unless you enclose your yard. Cats that go to a human's home at night are more likely to get regular health screenings via a vet then wild animals and are more likely to be friendly to humans then most of the options of free roaming animals.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 01:12:04 PM by WillyNilly »

Sharnita

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2013, 01:10:32 PM »
I think that animals living a "free life" are not called pets.

Eden

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2013, 01:12:44 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

The OP mentions there are several cats in the area. Some are probably not even pets, just semi-feral outdoor cats that live in the area. A cat is no more rude then a squirrel or a bird or a field mouse - animals live in the world. And they all poop. All anyone can do is control inside their own home and even then its only to a certain degree.


My babies poop.  Is there any circumstances under which we would say it was OK for other people to have to deal with their poop?   I'm fairly confident the answer is 'no'.   All we can do is control what is in our home, but if on an etiquette board someone asks what to do to avoid being rude and inconveniencing others, I think the answer is very plainly "keep your cat inside."

Well I respectfully disagree. I don't think its rude to let an animal live a free life. The world belongs to all creatures not just humans, and clearly the cat has no interest or desire in living an indoor life and forcing such confinement on the animal IMO would be cruel.

And I have to deal with other people's babies and their inconveniences on a daily basis. I have to navigate around high chairs in restaurants put in the pathway (like at the end of a booth) and smell their discarded diapers in the trashcans of public restrooms, and hear their squeals and chatter out in public and get stuck behind them walking painfully slowly on narrow sidewalks or down public stairways. Its part of life in the world with other living creatures and I don't mind it, it is what it is.

If cats weren't pooping in your garden then mice, squirrels, raccoons, deer, possums or whatever is indigenous to your are would be. That's simply the reality of the world. No matter what some animal is going to defecate in your yard unless you enclose your yard. Cats that go to a human's home at night are more likely to get regular health screenings via a vet then wild animals and are more likely to be friendly to humans then most of the options of free roaming animals.

Those are not domesticated animals so the comparison is not relevant. I wonder if you hold the same opinion of dogs, parakeets, pet snakes, etc. Just let them wander because confining them is cruel?

To be clear if the norm in the neighborhood is to let cats roam and the owner is fine with that, I guess that's fine, but in general I can't agree with the idea that someone's cat pooping in your yard is natural and you should just get used to it.

Eden

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2013, 01:13:39 PM »
I think that animals living a "free life" are not called pets.

Yes! Conveyed so much more succinctly than I was able to do.

WillyNilly

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2013, 01:16:28 PM »
I can't tell you how much time I've spend cleaning cat poo out of my yard, or how much money and time I've spent installing 'cat stoppers' thoughtout my yard to keep them away.  ( the cat stoppers do work, but require frequent battery replacements or elaborate cording to get an electric outlet to them )

So in my opinion, outdoor cats are rude - full stop.   Their feces is known to carry bacteria harmful to humans, and no owner can guarantee what they are doing when they are out of doors.   I know many people let their cats outside anyway, but I don't see how etiquette could ever support it.

The OP mentions there are several cats in the area. Some are probably not even pets, just semi-feral outdoor cats that live in the area. A cat is no more rude then a squirrel or a bird or a field mouse - animals live in the world. And they all poop. All anyone can do is control inside their own home and even then its only to a certain degree.


My babies poop.  Is there any circumstances under which we would say it was OK for other people to have to deal with their poop?   I'm fairly confident the answer is 'no'.   All we can do is control what is in our home, but if on an etiquette board someone asks what to do to avoid being rude and inconveniencing others, I think the answer is very plainly "keep your cat inside."

Well I respectfully disagree. I don't think its rude to let an animal live a free life. The world belongs to all creatures not just humans, and clearly the cat has no interest or desire in living an indoor life and forcing such confinement on the animal IMO would be cruel.

And I have to deal with other people's babies and their inconveniences on a daily basis. I have to navigate around high chairs in restaurants put in the pathway (like at the end of a booth) and smell their discarded diapers in the trashcans of public restrooms, and hear their squeals and chatter out in public and get stuck behind them walking painfully slowly on narrow sidewalks or down public stairways. Its part of life in the world with other living creatures and I don't mind it, it is what it is.

If cats weren't pooping in your garden then mice, squirrels, raccoons, deer, possums or whatever is indigenous to your are would be. That's simply the reality of the world. No matter what some animal is going to defecate in your yard unless you enclose your yard. Cats that go to a human's home at night are more likely to get regular health screenings via a vet then wild animals and are more likely to be friendly to humans then most of the options of free roaming animals.

Those are not domesticated animals so the comparison is not relevant. I wonder if you hold the same opinion of dogs, parakeets, pet snakes, etc. Just let them wander because confining them is cruel?

To be clear if the norm in the neighborhood is to let cats roam and the owner is fine with that, I guess that's fine, but in general I can't agree with the idea that someone's cat pooping in your yard is natural and you should just get used to it.

I very purposely live in a city that has leash laws for dogs. But I have been to plenty of places where off leash dogs are allowed and I don't complain when I'm there. That is the culture and the law in those areas and I respect that. And I am a firm believer in having more designated areas in my own city for off leash dogs because while I personally don't want to encounter an off leash canine, I do feel dogs deserve spaces where they can run freely.

EllenS

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Re: Who Is Easier to Contend With...The Cat or the Neighbour? (Long)
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2013, 01:18:26 PM »
First of all you need to understand that I do not know from one day to the next what status I am with my "friend" across the street.  Some days I can do no wrong and others she is judging me from head to toe. ... Aside from that, how can I keep things okay with my neighbour/friend? .... This is very much a friendship issue and not a legal one.

Issues of pet poop aside, I think you may have answered your own question inside the question, OP. 
PP's have some valid points about the line of personal responsibility and other people's boundaries.  However, if this is just part of a larger pattern of a person who is constantly looking for offense and impossible to please, I think you may have to rethink your friendship on that basis.