When a child is openly rude/hostile, and parents don’t seem to care

[alis]

Well, that's quite an assumption that the kid's behaviour was a result of his parent's opinion. It's been a while since I was that age, but I'm pretty sure I didn't care about my parent's opinion of their adult social circle. Chances are that the kid was simply annoyed at being spoken to in that manner. Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but that seems a more likely reason for his reaction.

[reflection5]

Well, that's quite an assumption that the kid's behaviour was a result of his parent's opinion. It's been a while since I was that age, but I'm pretty sure I didn't care about my parent's opinion of their adult social circle. Chances are that the kid was simply annoyed at being spoken to in that manner. Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but that seems a more likely reason for his reaction.

From my initial post:

Friend’s DS and BIL have neighbors they are very close to.  They are always over at each other’s houses, and their 12 yr old son is close to friend’s nephews (the 11 & 14 yr olds).  Friend has mentioned that she has picked up some negative “vibes” from the neighbors and also their son on a couple of occasions.  Neighbors seem cool towards her, and their son has been rude an a few occasions (not speaking, grunting when asked a question, etc.

Aside from the stepping on foot incident, there have been several instances of rudeness from the 12 yr old.  On those occasions, I don't understand why he would be annoyed by friend smiling, saying hello, and attempting to be civil.

As far as the recent incident, I suspect his "annoyance" was because an adult had the nerve to call him on his rude behavior right there in front of everyone.

[artk2002]

It is not parenting someone else's child, or even mildly inappropriatte to make it clear how one wishes to be treated by others. The child did something to affect the adult and the adult explained their expectations. I see nothing wrong with what was said.

Saying that we can't point out when others have treated us badly just lets the boors know that their behavior is ok. The "don't point out rudeness" applies to people passing gas in public or using the wrong fork, not people stepping on our toes or barging past.

[doodlemor]

For whatever reason these neighbours obviously have the impression that they can treat your friend with a lack of respect and grace and their son has picked up on that. Only saying goodbye to one person who is leaving is quite pointed, for example. I think it is pointless to speculate on the reasons for that, and personally I would just leave every time the neighbours or their son came over. NastyIris would simply say "Oh, neighbour is here. Well, time to go!" because NastyIris doesn't mind if people know exactly what she thinks of them but PoliteIris would simply mumble something about the time...

As to 12 year olds - SOME 12 year olds don't need correcting on their manners, but IME most do and I don't agree that they should be treated like adults in general. However, I don't tend to correct other people's children while the parents are there. This is a tricky one though, because children will 'accidentally' step on someone that their parents don't like for all the reasons others have pointed out. If that kind of thing is left unaddressed it will typically escalate. Honestly, just thinking this aspect of things through is giving me a headache and I would go back to my original advice to just leave as soon as they get there. Not after 15 minutes, immediately.

NastyIris and her gentle twin are both very wise. 

These neighbors don't deserve any time in Friend's head.  For whatever reason, they don't seem to care for Friend.  The reason for their ire may likely be something entirely illogical or just plain jealousy.  Friend will be better off if she doesn't think about or care about what unreasonable people do and think.

Whether or the not the foot stepping was accidental or not, the child should have apologized immediately.  The whole family sounds rather churlish. 

I think that it would be pretty nervy for a kid that old to deliberately step on a woman's foot.  If such is the case,  I think that other problems may show up with him sooner or later.

[*inviteseller]

I would imagine the neighbors are probably cool to your friend because, if they are close, the sister has probably said some things about your friend that are not nice.  As for the son, he just sounds like an undisciplined brat and I would have called him on his behavior if he had stepped on my foot.  At 12, it is time he learned that a simple "Oh, sorry" works.  I will wait for a parent to say something and if they just look away and let pwecious  act like an undisciplined heathen in my presence, I have no trouble telling them "that is not acceptable behavior.  You have to stop (whatever they are doing) now".  If the parents get mad at me then they need to stop jr from embarrassing him/herself and the parents and act correctly. 

[LifeOnPluto]

I think it's absolutely ok to tell a kid (or an adult for that matter): "Hey, you stepped on my foot!"

Hopefully the kid will apologise. But if he shrugs and says "I didn't mean to" (or worse, smirks and says "So what?") THEN you also have the right to tell him that that response is unacceptable to you, and that you'd like an apology.

And if he still doesn't apologise (and his parents don't do anything to fix the situation) I'd leave.

[citadelle]

12year olds do not typically care about their parents' relatives friends one way or another. He was likely in a hurry to get somewhere/do something more interesting.

While he certainly was impolite, I think it is a stretch to attribute that to his parents' opinion when Occam's Razor would suggest that he just didn't care.

[delabela]

I absolutely think your friend could have let him know he stepped on her foot, or asked him to please be more careful because he stepped on her foot, but demanding he come back and say excuse me strikes me as abrasive and overbearing for someone who does't know this kid well.

[Unusual Banana]

Not speaking and grunting when asked a question are pretty common behaviour in children his age. He may treat everyone the way he treats your friend, although it certainly is possible that his parents correct him if he does it to anyone else and he's picked up on the fact that he can get away with doing it to your friend.

I think your friend should have just pointed out that the boy stepped on her foot without telling him he should say "excuse me". That would have given him a chance to say it by himself if he hadn't realized he'd stepped on her foot, and it would have given his parents a chance to parent him themselves if he still didn't.

[Zilla]

Well, that's quite an assumption that the kid's behaviour was a result of his parent's opinion. It's been a while since I was that age, but I'm pretty sure I didn't care about my parent's opinion of their adult social circle. Chances are that the kid was simply annoyed at being spoken to in that manner. Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but that seems a more likely reason for his reaction.

From my initial post:

Friend’s DS and BIL have neighbors they are very close to.  They are always over at each other’s houses, and their 12 yr old son is close to friend’s nephews (the 11 & 14 yr olds).  Friend has mentioned that she has picked up some negative “vibes” from the neighbors and also their son on a couple of occasions.  Neighbors seem cool towards her, and their son has been rude an a few occasions (not speaking, grunting when asked a question, etc.

Aside from the stepping on foot incident, there have been several instances of rudeness from the 12 yr old.  On those occasions, I don't understand why he would be annoyed by friend smiling, saying hello, and attempting to be civil.

As far as the recent incident, I suspect his "annoyance" was because an adult had the nerve to call him on his rude behavior right there in front of everyone.

And the child is probably familiar with your friend feeling comfortable with correcting him.  I myself knowing these people not liking her would have ignored it or left feeling unwanted.  I also would ask the sister why the cold shoulder from her neighbors.
it

[Cami]

Well, that's quite an assumption that the kid's behaviour was a result of his parent's opinion. It's been a while since I was that age, but I'm pretty sure I didn't care about my parent's opinion of their adult social circle. Chances are that the kid was simply annoyed at being spoken to in that manner. Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but that seems a more likely reason for his reaction.

From my initial post:

Friend’s DS and BIL have neighbors they are very close to.  They are always over at each other’s houses, and their 12 yr old son is close to friend’s nephews (the 11 & 14 yr olds).  Friend has mentioned that she has picked up some negative “vibes” from the neighbors and also their son on a couple of occasions.  Neighbors seem cool towards her, and their son has been rude an a few occasions (not speaking, grunting when asked a question, etc.

Aside from the stepping on foot incident, there have been several instances of rudeness from the 12 yr old.  On those occasions, I don't understand why he would be annoyed by friend smiling, saying hello, and attempting to be civil.

As far as the recent incident, I suspect his "annoyance" was because an adult had the nerve to call him on his rude behavior right there in front of everyone.

And the child is probably familiar with your friend feeling comfortable with correcting him.  I myself knowing these people not liking her would have ignored it or left feeling unwanted.  I also would ask the sister why the cold shoulder from her neighbors.
it

I agree with the bolded. Why hasn't she asked her sister what the heck is going on with the neighbors?

[reflection5]

Why hasn't she asked her sister what the heck is going on with the neighbors?

Incorrect assumption. 

After we left friend mentioned that she in fact has asked her sister about this.  The reponse was "I don't know what you mean.  You can't expect them to fall all over you just because you're my sister.  They barely know you."  Nice.   

I told friend I would not bother trying to be polite to these people or their son anymore.

[Zilla]

OP, I see that you are a bit upset with the assumptions people have made in this thread, including mine.  Perhaps in your original post, I would post the entire story instead of refuting everyone's suggestion with more details.


With all the extra details and updates, it appears the only solution left is not to visit the sister anymore at their home.  Offer to see them at other venues or the OP's own home.

[reflection5]

OP, I see that you are a bit upset with the assumptions people have made in this thread, including mine.  Perhaps in your original post, I would post the entire story instead of refuting everyone's suggestion with more details.


With all the extra details and updates, it appears the only solution left is not to visit the sister anymore at their home.  Offer to see them at other venues or the OP's own home.

The assumption didn't upset me (not sure why you feel it did).  I simply corrected it.

Well, friend is not asking for a resolution or advice (although I did tell her I wouldn't bother being polite to neighbors anymore).  The situation is just something that happened and I thought might be interesting to discuss.  There's no real emotional investment on my part.

However, I don't think friend should stop visiting a relative just because impolite neighbors might be at that relatives house.  Whether or not friend decides to stay away is up to her and remainds to be seen.  Friend's sister seems rather churlish (to borrow a word someone else used), and I wouldn't be stopping by her house for a visit very much anyway.  But, that's me.

[bloo]

It is not parenting someone else's child, or even mildly inappropriatte to make it clear how one wishes to be treated by others. The child did something to affect the adult and the adult explained their expectations. I see nothing wrong with what was said.

Saying that we can't point out when others have treated us badly just lets the boors know that their behavior is ok. The "don't point out rudeness" applies to people passing gas in public or using the wrong fork, not people stepping on our toes or barging past.

I agree with this.

Ignoring this particular behavior sends a signal that 12yo can be careless physically and no one, including the person being mistreated, will say or do anything.

We do teach people how to treat us.

We have these acquaintances that are pretty nice, but as parents go - they completely 'check out' when it comes to their kids. They allow a negative attitude, disrespect and misbehavior and they never say anything to their kids. I really like the mom but since my kids can't stand her kids, we'll not be close to 'til the kids are up-n-gone, I suppose.

There's been a lot, but a couple instances stand out in my mind:

We hosted a big party and this family as well as the mom's parents helped set up the day before. BB (the mom) has a dad in his 60's (JJ) that mostly did the physical setting up. Myself, my kids, DH, BB, JJ and Ichabod (BB's DH) were all working while BB's son was relaxing on a chair. After asking him to move so I could set up a table and listening to him 'sigh' I asked him why he wasn't helping. He said, "I'm tired!" Well I guess he would be since he grabbed my bike without permission and rode it all over our property. But he was also 11 or 12 so I said, "Your 65+yo grandpa is working his tail off to help set up. Get up and help because you're embarrassing him." He pouted for a while but did start helping. His parents both heard me but said nothing except to gently admonish him that he'd better behave or he would not attend the party (an utterly worthless threat). I didn't need his help, but it ticked me off to see his grandpa working his butt off while he lazed around complaining.

Another time, maybe 6 months later we were on a hike and I was the only parent there. So this young man, Virgil, was also on this hike. I ignored his constant chatter but when I saw a huge stick land a foot away from my daughter, I got angry and yelled, "You don't throw sticks in the direction of people! You could have taken her eye out or worse! (It's all fun and games til someone loses an eye, right?)" He just stared at me. Like a dope. So then I said, "this is where you say 'sorry' and we move on." He muttered a 'sorry' and avoided me for the rest of the hike. His sister, doesn't tend to misbehave in front of adults but has caused a share of problems for my daughter so my DD chooses not to spend any time with or thinking about her.

If I choose to refuse to parent my kid, I'd fully expect someone else to step it and do it. Especially if they behave in a way that immediately, negatively impacts others. Any of us should be made aware when we're doing that.

And yeah, not for using the wrong fork or floating air biscuits.