Author Topic: To share or not ... that is the question  (Read 35942 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2013, 09:59:19 AM »
Does Lodger think that if dishes are moved by the time I start cooking this will be acceptable or is she paying lip service only?

I think that it's sort of silly to ask us this. And it's not effective to even ask it of yourself.
You need to ask her, if you truly want an answer to that.

I would leave her a note, since you won't see her, that says, "What I meant was, dry them and put them away right away."

I have to say that I would think it was OK to leave dishes to dry in the drying rack.
I also know I'd be unhappy with feelign that I had to erase every trace of my presence from the place--but that's also why I'm not a lodger, I guess.

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Tonight I am having dinner at my daughter's home which unfortunately means I won't be around at my home to see what Lodger does with the dishes.  Seriously thinking of giving her a warning that if she ignores me and leaves the dishes again, then she is looking for a new address.

First you need to decide--if they ARE put away by the time you start cooking, is that good enough?


I'm having trouble condemning the lodger for many of these things. I can't see that these make her a horrible human being.


But I *do* think this means that you aren't temperamentally suited to have a lodger. Maybe not *any* lodger.

Right now you're acting like a parent--her dishes aren't actually interfering, but you're angry because she didn't do as she was told. That's not a good dynamic.

If you try to get another lodger, you need to do some serious thinking about how *you* are going to react and interact with a lodger.

Oh, and there are worse ones out there, actually.

DavidH

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2013, 11:28:59 AM »
It seems pretty clear that you and this lodger don't get along.  Leaving dishes in the drainer to dry is pretty normal, since I think that's what they're for.  On the other hand, I can see why it's annoying to find it full when the time comes for you to wash your own dishes.  The compromise would be to have hers out by the time you start to cook. 

If the goal is to get her to change behavior, then you may actually need to go to her room and ask her to remove her dishes.  It will have the added advantage of inconveniencing her each time, thus providing incentive for her to put them away before you start to cook.  If you are unwilling to remind her even a few times and just hope that putting your dishes on top of hers will cause her to change behavior, you are likely to be disappointed.  It may not bother her, it wouldn't bother me for example, and a verbal reminder is much more likely to work.

It sounds like you don't want her there.  I can see why some of this bothers you, but using a blanket left in the living room and leaving your dishes in the dish drainer to dry are pretty normal things to do. 

The combination of having a unintuitive set of rules and being rather PA and not willing to tell someone the rules up outright does not lend itself to having a roommate.

If you have any interest in making this work, have an honest conversation with her, lay out the rules, negotiate something you can both live with and go from there. 

reflection5

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2013, 11:52:29 AM »
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Leaving dishes in the drainer to dry is pretty normal, since I think that's what they're for. 

That's the way I feel.

Pots and pans with food left on stove burners, dirty dishes on the countertop – these are things I would find annoying if I wanted to cook.  Clean dishes in the dish drainer – not so much.

OP, clearly this dish drainer issue is upsetting you - a lot.  If you ever have another housemate or guest, you need to put that at the top of your list of rules.

However, I don't think printed rules or verbal reminders are going to matter, because

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It sounds like you don't want her there.

This.  Frankly, I don't think you want anyone there - and that's okay.  You need to figure out a way to live so that it's not necessary to have a roomer.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 12:09:55 PM by reflection5 »

DottyG

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2013, 04:08:49 PM »
I agree with Toots (and the guys) above.  I don't see the problem with the dish drainer's being used for what it's designed to do - drain the dishes so that you don't have to dry quite so much.  Likewise with a lot of the other things you've mentioned.

I really think this boils down to the fact that you don't like this girl.  Which is completely your right.  Not everyone gets along.  But this dislike is causing you to react to some normal things with anger when it's not really as big a deal as you might find with someone else.

Actually, I think I agree as well with the above  poster.  You're not really that keen on anyone's living with you.  I think it might be a good idea to start seeing if there's a way to do what you need to do without having a boarder in your home.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 04:10:37 PM by DottyG »

lellah

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #109 on: April 29, 2013, 04:25:59 PM »
Oh, my.  This whole thread is exhausting.  Exhausting!  You have no contract with this woman and a series of mostly unarticulated expectations for her that are varying levels of reasonable, and this situation is causing you both stress. 

I'm sorry you're in a bad spot with your finances and that you're undoubtedly upset by familial concerns.  But I'm equally sorry for this hapless lodger of yours.

If you were to evict her, as others suggested, and then try to find a new lodger to whom you'll provide a list of your house rules, I suspect you'll have a terrible time finding anyone to take you up on it.  How long would that list be, honestly?  Pages and pages.

I'm sorry: I think your plan to create rules and consequences like this woman is an unruly tween is rude as well as, frankly, bananas. 
 
Here's what I think your actual options are: 1) make a list of your, say, ten most important rules, and chill out about everything else.  2) find a way to make money that isn't letting a spare room.  3) evict this girl and replace her with a tenant who rents the bed & bathroom only without access to the kitchen and living room.  Charge that tenant extra for the electricity she'll use up on her mini fridge and electric kettle.

reflection5

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2013, 04:36:46 PM »
Does Lodger think that if dishes are moved by the time I start cooking this will be acceptable or is she paying lip service only?

I think that it's sort of silly to ask us this. And it's not effective to even ask it of yourself.

I meant to comment on what TootsNYC said – I completely agree this is silly.

OP – this is what I meant in my earlier posts.  You keep analyzing and speculating, over and over and over, about what Lodger might be thinking then trying to plan your actions in case she thinks (whatever), then you come back and ask us if Lodger is thinking (whatever).  This is getting you nowhere and accomplishing nothing towards a solution.

Written, printed "rules"?  Nah.

My verdict is you don't want this Lodger, you don't want any other Lodger.  While I realize you need the income, you'll just have to overlook various annoyances, ask the Lodger to leave, or make some financial adjustments (maybe find a part-time work-at-home job or somehow cut back on expenses).

Frankly, if I was the Lodger I'd already be looking for another place to live and I would not be discussing anymore rules.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but that's my honest take in this situation.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 04:54:08 PM by reflection5 »

TootsNYC

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2013, 05:57:19 PM »

I really think this boils down to the fact that you don't like this girl.  Which is completely your right.  Not everyone gets along.  But this dislike is causing you to react to some normal things with anger when it's not really as big a deal as you might find with someone else.

Actually, I think I agree as well with the above  poster.  You're not really that keen on anyone's living with you.  I think it might be a good idea to start seeing if there's a way to do what you need to do without having a boarder in your home.

I think it's less that you don't like her particularly and more that you don't really like having someone else doing stuff with your things and in your space.

You may also be unused to having another *adult* living with you, since you're slipping into "Mom" mode so easily.

In terms of this specific person--she may have asked for, and you may have granted, financial concessions that make you resent her a bit, which colors everything you see.

(Though w/ the aspirin thing, I do agree that it's also possible that she's the sort of person to takes advantage of other people when the opportunity arises--a trait that was given encouragement when you agreed to drop your price for her.)

DottyG

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2013, 06:09:33 PM »
Quote
You may also be unused to having another *adult* living with you, since you're slipping into "Mom" mode so easily.

This might be a good thing to consider here.


dawbs

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2013, 06:16:49 PM »
If you do go the 'new lodger' route, I'd think that making it clear what, of the 'common area' is being rented, will be the crux of the issue.

I do agree that you may need to be flexible in the 'rules'; I think it's fair to assume that to many folks, 'impersonal' items (like blankets, dishracks, etc) in a "common area" were for common use--so I think moving what is to be 'private' into your own rooms is also paramount.

If you want to designate place in the kitchen for your lodger, I would designate a portion of the fridge, freezer, counter (where she could have her own dishrack), and cupboards.  Same for the lodger's shelf in the medicine cabinet, shelf in the shower/bath, etc.

Cuddlepie

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2013, 08:03:55 PM »
I agree that dish drainers are for draining dishes and that it works fine in a single family/user situation.  When you are sharing a kitchen you need to accommodate each other and keep the area ready for use, lets say 90% of the time.  In reality, sometimes you are running behind and have no option to leave, then come home and tidy the kitchen.

Let me put it this way to PPs.  How would you feel if 90% of the time, when you went to use the kitchen things were in your way - i) if roommate/lodger is home you go to her room, ask that she puts her things away and remain polite after the 4th+ time of asking or ii) you put her things away yourself or iii) leave them in drainer but then need utensils that just happens to be underneath everything else?  I can't be alone here, surely it would bother others as well.  :'(

I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

It is very disheartening to read some of the comments, when PP have said that would have already moved out or I'm not suitable to sharing.  Why - I wasn't the one using up all of someone else's food, I'm not the one putting others health as risk be allowing meat juices to drip in the fridge and I'm not causing a continual problem in the kitchen.  OK, that last one is a matter of opinion :-\.  The heating is set to what is considered the norm (and not just by me) and I certainly not saying that the heating can't be turned up higher if she willing to pay towards the extra costs. I rectified my blanket issue, and it was my issue, in a way that Lodger was not even aware that I knew she used my blanket, let alone knew that it squeaked me a bit.  Thanks to you all I handled it well.  Lodger has her own shelves in fridge, freezer and pantry, there is a section in the cupboards for her personal crockery, containers etc but she uses mine so this area is empty.  Lodger has her own en-suite and as far as I know she does not enter the main bathroom which is separate from the living areas.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 10:59:18 PM by Cuddlepie »

snowdragon

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2013, 11:18:15 PM »
The dishes in the drainer thing would.drive.me.nuts. and most of my family. I don't want to look at dishes out of place every time I walk through the kitchen it makes the house look untidy.  And I would be telling her that I want them washed dried and put away first time,every time.

The fridge would also drive me insane - She'd be cleaning the mess up, replacing anything that the blood touched -as you could not use it after blood got on it for risk of disease. And I'd be having her pay extra for the electricity to run SMALL refrigerator she would now need to keep in her room.

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave. The refrigerator stuff would be a deal breaker for me - that's just gross!

Cuddlepie

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2013, 12:22:44 AM »

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave.

 :-\ There is a bad bad irony to this .... Son and I are vegetarian (although I eat meat when visiting friends),  Lodger eats bacon sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner, rarely with veggies or even salad and she never eats fruit.    I exaggerate, sometimes it's a lamb chop sandwich or spaghetti bolognaise or frozen fish and chips.   Cooking, sharing and eating the same meals, dealbreaker for all, yes  ;D

Edited: Too many typos cos I was laughing about how this would go down if I suggested.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:27:49 AM by Cuddlepie »

pennylucy

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #117 on: April 30, 2013, 12:29:42 AM »
The dishes in the drainer thing would.drive.me.nuts. and most of my family. I don't want to look at dishes out of place every time I walk through the kitchen it makes the house look untidy.  And I would be telling her that I want them washed dried and put away first time,every time.

The fridge would also drive me insane - She'd be cleaning the mess up, replacing anything that the blood touched -as you could not use it after blood got on it for risk of disease. And I'd be having her pay extra for the electricity to run SMALL refrigerator she would now need to keep in her room.

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave. The refrigerator stuff would be a deal breaker for me - that's just gross!

Wow...thank God you're not a landlady.

kareng57

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #118 on: April 30, 2013, 12:34:53 AM »
I agree that dish drainers are for draining dishes and that it works fine in a single family/user situation.  When you are sharing a kitchen you need to accommodate each other and keep the area ready for use, lets say 90% of the time.  In reality, sometimes you are running behind and have no option to leave, then come home and tidy the kitchen.

Let me put it this way to PPs.  How would you feel if 90% of the time, when you went to use the kitchen things were in your way - i) if roommate/lodger is home you go to her room, ask that she puts her things away and remain polite after the 4th+ time of asking or ii) you put her things away yourself or iii) leave them in drainer but then need utensils that just happens to be underneath everything else?  I can't be alone here, surely it would bother others as well.  :'(

I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

It is very disheartening to read some of the comments, when PP have said that would have already moved out or I'm not suitable to sharing.  Why - I wasn't the one using up all of someone else's food, I'm not the one putting others health as risk be allowing meat juices to drip in the fridge and I'm not causing a continual problem in the kitchen.  OK, that last one is a matter of opinion :-\.  The heating is set to what is considered the norm (and not just by me) and I certainly not saying that the heating can't be turned up higher if she willing to pay towards the extra costs. I rectified my blanket issue, and it was my issue, in a way that Lodger was not even aware that I knew she used my blanket, let alone knew that it squeaked me a bit.  Thanks to you all I handled it well.  Lodger has her own shelves in fridge, freezer and pantry, there is a section in the cupboards for her personal crockery, containers etc but she uses mine so this area is empty.  Lodger has her own en-suite and as far as I know she does not enter the main bathroom which is separate from the living areas.


Re your second paragraph - yes, I'll admit that I'd find it mildly bothersome.  I also find it mildly bothersome when DS #2 leaves his stuff on the stove-top.  I chide him every now and then, but it's a trade-off.  Having him here to do the yard-maintenance ever since his dad died is great.  Of course I realize that this is not in any way your sort of situation.

But I think that you have to pick your battles.  Several PPs have said that they consider it "normal" to leave dishes in a drain-rack and I completely agree.  What about simply collecting her stuff off the drain-rack and piling it up, so she can put it away later?

In the end of course it's your call.  Only a small minority of roommate situations are completely compatible, and you could run the risk of getting a far worse one, if you evict your current lodger.

AnnaJ

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Re: To share or not ... that is the question
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2013, 12:55:27 AM »
I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

I can understand being frustrated when you're trying to cook and there are things in your way, and think it's great that you've resolved the blanket issue.  I think the reason that several people are expressing concern about whether or not you are compatible with having a lodger is that several of the things that bother you are pretty normal expectations, I think, for many renters.

As far as not vacuuming or doing laundry early, honestly I wouldn't expect my landlady to do those things before 8 any more than I would expect to be allowed to do noisy things after a reasonable hour at night.   Letting her know when you are expecting company isn't being extra nice to her, it's just common courtesy, especially if it's at a time when she'd be wearing nightclothes.  As for allowing her access to the living room, I would expect that, or expect to pay very much less rent if all I was getting was a bedroom and a bathroom.

It's not a personal criticism of you, it's just that not everyone is cut out to have people they don't know/aren't related to living with them; I have a roommate, but we were friends for years and are able to negotiate pretty well - I honestly don't know how well I'd do in your circumstance either.