To share or not ... that is the question

[rashea]

I'm glad you asked her to move out. It's just time to see this as a learning opportunity and move on. And I also hope you have the move out date in writing. Take pictures when she moves.

Beyond that, I think that you need to decide what rules you're going to have if you are going to have a lodger. You've learned some things that will drive you nuts, and that's good for you to know. But, you've got a few other issues. You need to come up with a way to talk about issues before they get too bad. And you need to be clear. If you want the dishes put away right away, that's fine. But to me, a dish dryer is there to leave dishes to dry. And that's held true even after I lived in a house with 13 people (5 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 kitchen, and 4 families). Even there, with 2-3 families making dinner we would leave dishes in the drainer.

So, think about all the things that are important to you. If you have a question of whether something is unique to you, this is a good place to check. And it's fine for you to have those, no one is saying you can't. But you need to be upfront.

[DottyG]

So, think about all the things that are important to you.

This is a good statement.

Cuddle, I think a good idea for you is to write down all the things that bug you.  Not just from this boarder, but in general.  If you had "the perfect living environment," what would it look like?  Then go through the list and prioritize it.  Some of the things on that list are the "hills to die on" issues.  But some are not.  You need to create an idea in your head of what kinds of things you can let go in order to allow another person to live with you while still maintaining a happy home for yourself.

I think there are some things on your list from this thread that need to be lower in priority.  It's great if someone feels the same way and does them.  But, if they don't, you need to be able to let them go and not let them get to you.  What those things are need to be decided by you.  What I find "minor" may not be what you do.  And vice versa.

[dawbs]

But did that property manager live in the same house as you?  There is a difference between moving out of an apartment owned by someone else and moving out of someone's home.   The disturbance to the apartment owner is nil, while the home owner who lives in the same space being moved out of is going to have some disruption.

True, but beyond 'reasonable hours', I don't think one can really dictate the 'when' of moving out.  And, for many people, it's not at all clear when that 'when' is; moving can be a gradual, multi-day process

[veronaz]

The concern about “reasonable hours” seems to be a bit premature.  OP asked lodger “when” she was moving (as in what date, not exactly what time).  I’m not seeing any indication that lodger will move at 2:00 in the morning just to annoy OP.  As previously stated, lodger most likely doesn’t know the moving date yet, so OP should back off from asking “when”.

OP says she told lodger she has 2 weeks to move.  Whether or not OP actually gave lodger written notice has not been yet answered.

If you had "the perfect living environment," what would it look like?  Then go through the list and prioritize it.  Some of the things on that list are the "hills to die on" issues.  But some are not.

Cuddlepie, member DottyG has some good points.  If you decide to get another tenant, you should write down things that bother you.  The dish drainer was quite an issue with you, and that being the case, you should put it in the rules.  Your prospective tenant may decide whether or not to agree to your preferences about the dish drainer.  Then there was the problem about tenant using your blanket - that should be in your list of rules.  However, whether or not a tenant eats enough green vegetables (you also mentioned that) isn’t a landlord's business.

It's your house, and you can make whatever rules you want.  But the more rules and restrictions you have, the harder it might be to get a tenant to go along with everything you want.  If I were you, I'd think long abd hard about whether or not you really want a tenant sharing your home.  If they are paying you money to live there, it's also their home.

[Cuddlepie]

OP here with couple of replies.

@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

@ a few posters:  I never asked Lodger were she was going to next, and I don't really care and to be honest I don't want to know.  Her mail can be re-directed by the post office, a service that you pay for.  And once again, I will presume here  , Lodger will not want to pay for that and will expect me to forward her mail onto her.  Yes, I will do it, BUT, I will not suggest or offer to forward mail, Lodger can remember to ask me, before she goes.

@ 'reasonable treatment vs reasonable hour' :  Game of 'telephone' anyone ?  Somehow me saying that I am required to be 'reasonable' with my dealing with Lodger and moving out (as required by law) became me acting unreasonable and wanting my lodger to vacant an a 'reasonable hour'. 

If, the only time Lodger's uncle can move her and her clothes is 2am, I don't mind (well, a little bit).  When I told lodger I was giving her notice, I said I would work with the day (Sat or Sun) and time that her aunt and uncle were available to move her and her clothes,  and to let me know, so I could be here.  Aunt and Uncle take their children to sporting activities so I was trying to do the right thing by all concerned.

Here is Oz, when you rent a property, you are given a move in/move out time by the property manager, eg 10am.  You cannot get the keys before and when moving out, everything must be out and everything clean by that time and keys handed in as well.  If you want a few days to move, then you take the few days but are still out by the designated day and time as per your lease.

BG re Lodger:  Originally when lodger moved in, she was meant to move in at 11am (her choice of time) on the Saturday, but her uncle turned up early so she ended up with me a little earlier between 9 and 9.30am.  So, her 'time' should be up 9.30am this Sat but I have not asked her to abide by this, giving her the whole weekend (taking into consideration her nieces and nephew and their activities).

After receiving advice from Govt Dept yesterday, I am adjusting the move out day and time to the Monday at 6pm.  (Me giving Lodger  2 days 'free' could come back to bite me as she started paying rent on the Monday).    It's a 'grey area' .. I'm not telling Lodger she has the extra time (Lodger is free to get her own advice if she disputes the timing), but if, she hasn't moved out by Monday evening, then that is the time I can take action to evict her without that 'grey time' being an issue.  Was also advised tell Lodger that I have someone moving in Monday evening, whether or not I have, so there is a deadline that the room will no longer be free for her use. 

I really don't believe that Lodger will damaged anything deliberately but if something should be accidently damaged, our paperwork will allow me to claim costs from her.



I edited this post as I now realise that I used a name for a game that I should not have.  And from now on will educate my friends on the alternate name.  I apologise for my lapse and hope I did not offend any readers.

[DottyG]

Just out of curiosity, what is this - "Chinese whispers"?  I've never heard of those before.
 


 

[Cuddlepie]

Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad 

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.

[snowdragon]

Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad 

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.

In the US we call that "telephone"

[Cuddlepie]

Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad 

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.

In the US we call that "telephone"

I like "telephone" ... much nicer if  you KWIM

[veronaz]

@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

 

Cuddlepie, I didn't say anything about legal advice.

However, I did ask if you gave her written notice.

(btw, Chinese whispers is considered to be offensive.)

[Cuddlepie]

Cuddlepie,
Your goal is for her to pack up her possessions and leave your home – period.  Where she goes after she leaves is not your concern.  You don’t know for sure whether or not she is looking, and that is also not your concern.

You shouldn’t be speculating about what you assume she is thinking- that serves no purpose.
Yes, you should be there when she actually moves out and it might be a good idea to have someone else also be there.

Did you give her written notice?  (It's important your notice is written, not just verbal.) Then she needs to move by the end of the day on that date.  She needs to organize and pack her things and probably get help moving.  Asking her “when are you moving” is only annoying her and right now she doesn’t have an exact date and time.  When she does, I think she will let you know.

Veronaz, you are correct that you did not mention any legal advice.

To clear up what I was replying to (and I hope the bolding worked OK ... my mouse is playing up!!!)  I have quoted your post #201 and bolded where you mentioned that assuming served no purpose which is what I disagreed with and was replying to. (and then saying I had received outside legal advice)

[veronaz]

Thanks for clarifying, Cuddlepie.

[Cuddlepie]

OP here: 

Heck, after this strange interaction with Lodger I do not know what to think .... it's definitely a head scratching moment.

Received a notification from our Electricity Supplier advising that power will be out for 5 hours approx next Tuesday.  Left it on kitchen bench for son to read.  I am on computer (e-hell) when Lodger comes to my bedroom to thank me for letting her know about the power outage    She walked away before I could get my wits back and ask her why she was thanking me .... she didn't come across as sarcastic or anything like that.

Maybe she has found another way to mess with my mind .... she has been moving food around on my shelves in the pantry.  And she is succeeding 

[VorFemme]

I've seen that game as "Telephone" or "Gossip" - depending on if the players were supposed to think about what happens when you pass along information that you don't completely understand and how distorted it can become (the Gossip version was in school or church).  The Telephone version was more for fun.....no lessons intended but you could take away whatever you wanted to after hearing the wild variations from beginning to end of the line.

Is Lodger thanking you for letting her know about an electrical outage AFTER she is supposed to have moved out?  Either she's trying to forget about being supposed to pack & move or she's not thinking "I move X and the power is out Y" because she just isn't putting two & two together and coming up with four.

[CakeEater]

@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

 

Cuddlepie, I didn't say anything about legal advice.

However, I did ask if you gave her written notice.

(btw, Chinese whispers is considered to be offensive.)

Complete threadjack, but in Australia, it's really not. I've never heard of anyone even suggesting that that term is offensive, and it's widely used here.