Author Topic: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"  (Read 13247 times)

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gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 03:16:37 PM »

That dog should have been muzzled.  At the very least.

Now I understand the importance of teaching kids how to behave around animals.  I have taught my own that they must ask before petting or approaching, not to harass or pester them and I would certainly remind them again to leave the animals alone at a vet's office.  It's not just about etiquette but it is for their own safety.

The mother should have been watching more closely....but that dog owner is not off the hook.  She has an unpredictable animal and if you choose to keep an unpredictable animal then you are responsible for controlling it.

I disagree. We have no way of knowing if this kind of thing had ever happened with the dog before. And this was a veterinary office. A place where the animals can be reasonably expected to be scared, upset, and possibly in pain and/or feeling ill.

Nope, I put this one squarely on the special snowflake mother who couldn't be bothered to keep her child under control. After all, the dog owner DID control her dog and kept the child from being bitten.

Last but not least, all animals are inherently unpredictable to some extent. Dogs that normally love everyone can be afraid/stressed/in pain in the vet's office. Or can take a dislike to someone new for no reason apparent to the owners.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

But if a vet's office is where animals are going to be scared, upset, in contact with other people and animals then all the more reason they should be muzzled. 

If it were my child she would have gotten a sharp reprimand and physically escorted out of the dog's way if that was not effective....but all the same if a dog had been that nasty that SS dog owner would have gotten an earful about not having it muzzled in public.  Sorry but clinging to it for dear life doesn't sound especially in control to me.  She's lucky she didn't get bitten herself.

Why do people take such chances with their animals and the public?  I would not be able to live with myself if I had a dog that mauled someone...especially a little kid....all because I "thought" I knew my dog better. 

OSUJillyBean

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 03:33:22 PM »

That dog should have been muzzled.  At the very least.

Now I understand the importance of teaching kids how to behave around animals.  I have taught my own that they must ask before petting or approaching, not to harass or pester them and I would certainly remind them again to leave the animals alone at a vet's office.  It's not just about etiquette but it is for their own safety.

The mother should have been watching more closely....but that dog owner is not off the hook.  She has an unpredictable animal and if you choose to keep an unpredictable animal then you are responsible for controlling it.

I disagree. We have no way of knowing if this kind of thing had ever happened with the dog before. And this was a veterinary office. A place where the animals can be reasonably expected to be scared, upset, and possibly in pain and/or feeling ill.

Nope, I put this one squarely on the special snowflake mother who couldn't be bothered to keep her child under control. After all, the dog owner DID control her dog and kept the child from being bitten.

Last but not least, all animals are inherently unpredictable to some extent. Dogs that normally love everyone can be afraid/stressed/in pain in the vet's office. Or can take a dislike to someone new for no reason apparent to the owners.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

But if a vet's office is where animals are going to be scared, upset, in contact with other people and animals then all the more reason they should be muzzled. 

If it were my child she would have gotten a sharp reprimand and physically escorted out of the dog's way if that was not effective....but all the same if a dog had been that nasty that SS dog owner would have gotten an earful about not having it muzzled in public.  Sorry but clinging to it for dear life doesn't sound especially in control to me.  She's lucky she didn't get bitten herself.

Why do people take such chances with their animals and the public?  I would not be able to live with myself if I had a dog that mauled someone...especially a little kid....all because I "thought" I knew my dog better.

I will say the dog was collared and on a leash.  Also, I was not familiar with this dog because it was healthy enough to only have to come in for the annual stuff.  I have no idea if this dog hates all children (and yes should be muzzled) or if she was just having a case of rage-face.  If she'd bitten the child, we are required by law to take the dog and put her in a 10-day rabies quarantine, regardless of her vaccine records. 

Our clinic also handled the local police dogs (about two dozen bad-tempered German Shepherds).  They are all required to be muzzled and our clinic is all for whatever protective gear is required.  My own cat has to wear a "happy hat"  (kitty cone of shame) at every visit because she hates the vet office. 

I never saw SS or Kujo's owner again but I hope Kujo was muzzled when out in public after that little display!

Hillia

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2013, 03:35:43 PM »
Why do people take such chances with their animals and the public? 

Why do people take such chances with their children and the public?  Aside from aggravating a dog, she could have wandered out the front door into the parking lot and been hit by a car, been picked up by an unsavory person, or tripped and whacked her head.  All of these things are inherent hazards that her mother should be protecting her from, just like the dog at the vet's office.  We have no knowledge of whether the dog had ever shown aggressive behavior before - I'm not muzzling my dog every time he steps outside the house because of what an unsupervised child might do to provoke him.

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MindsEye

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2013, 03:47:29 PM »
Why do people take such chances with their animals and the public? 

Why do people take such chances with their children and the public?  Aside from aggravating a dog, she could have wandered out the front door into the parking lot and been hit by a car, been picked up by an unsavory person, or tripped and whacked her head.  All of these things are inherent hazards that her mother should be protecting her from, just like the dog at the vet's office.  We have no knowledge of whether the dog had ever shown aggressive behavior before - I'm not muzzling my dog every time he steps outside the house because of what an unsupervised child might do to provoke him.

POD, especially to the bolded.  I was actually trying to think of a way of saying exactly this.

OP, you didn't see the beginning of what happened between the child and the dog, so I was wondering if the child did something to provoke the dog.  It is so easy for a child that age to provoke an animal, especially if the child had no idea how to properly interact with animals.  Even the sweetest-tempered dog is probably not going to react well to something like an unexpected poke in the eye.

*inviteseller

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2013, 03:53:44 PM »
POD POD POD Hillia.  This was not someone taking a chance with their animal in public, this collared and leashed dog was in the VET'S office, a place for dogs! It not aggressive, by the OP's account until the unattended child decided she wanted to be friends with the dog.  Maybe the dog needed to be muzzled, maybe not, but where there are many different dogs, cats, and other animals and sometimes the sweetest dog will get upset.  Not every place is safe for a child to wander unattended and if snookums gets bit because she just wanted to pet the puppy who did not want petted for whatever reason and mommy dearest couldn't be bothered to get off the phone and hold her kids hand in a place that is for DOGS, to me, I will feel for the kid but not hold a thing against the dog or owner.  The vet's office is specifically for pets, not kids.  People don't bring their dogs into a pediatricians office to bother the kids, if you can't watch your(general) kid in the vets office, something not pleasant may happen.  Gen xer, I am wondering, do you not like dogs, or have a fear of them?  Because that would make your posts easier to understand, for me as to the idea the dog/dog owner was wrong.

gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2013, 04:18:23 PM »
POD POD POD Hillia.  This was not someone taking a chance with their animal in public, this collared and leashed dog was in the VET'S office, a place for dogs! It not aggressive, by the OP's account until the unattended child decided she wanted to be friends with the dog.  Maybe the dog needed to be muzzled, maybe not, but where there are many different dogs, cats, and other animals and sometimes the sweetest dog will get upset.  Not every place is safe for a child to wander unattended and if snookums gets bit because she just wanted to pet the puppy who did not want petted for whatever reason and mommy dearest couldn't be bothered to get off the phone and hold her kids hand in a place that is for DOGS, to me, I will feel for the kid but not hold a thing against the dog or owner.  The vet's office is specifically for pets, not kids.  People don't bring their dogs into a pediatricians office to bother the kids, if you can't watch your(general) kid in the vets office, something not pleasant may happen.  Gen xer, I am wondering, do you not like dogs, or have a fear of them?  Because that would make your posts easier to understand, for me as to the idea the dog/dog owner was wrong.

I am not disagreeing that the mother shouldn't have been watching more closely - she should have and I said so....I will not allow my own children to approach dogs without asking their owner's for permission....but that dog could have killed her!!!  Muzzle it - especially at the vet's office instead of making excuses about why it got nasty.  We can argue until the cows come home that animals get upset, scared etc at the vets....but that suggests to me that muzzling is probably the best option all around to avoid this kind of thing.  It seems like this is a gauntlet thrown down of who has turf privileges - a dog owner who doesn't think they should have to muzzle their aggressive animal and a clueless mom who doesn't think she should have to watch her child.

Who loses?  A child could be mauled and an animal could be put down - all avoidable with a muzzle.

I don't hate dogsand I am not afraid of them...but I like kids better and a child's welfare will trump a dogs every single time for me.

artk2002

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2013, 04:26:10 PM »
POD POD POD Hillia.  This was not someone taking a chance with their animal in public, this collared and leashed dog was in the VET'S office, a place for dogs! It not aggressive, by the OP's account until the unattended child decided she wanted to be friends with the dog.  Maybe the dog needed to be muzzled, maybe not, but where there are many different dogs, cats, and other animals and sometimes the sweetest dog will get upset.  Not every place is safe for a child to wander unattended and if snookums gets bit because she just wanted to pet the puppy who did not want petted for whatever reason and mommy dearest couldn't be bothered to get off the phone and hold her kids hand in a place that is for DOGS, to me, I will feel for the kid but not hold a thing against the dog or owner.  The vet's office is specifically for pets, not kids.  People don't bring their dogs into a pediatricians office to bother the kids, if you can't watch your(general) kid in the vets office, something not pleasant may happen.  Gen xer, I am wondering, do you not like dogs, or have a fear of them?  Because that would make your posts easier to understand, for me as to the idea the dog/dog owner was wrong.

I am not disagreeing that the mother shouldn't have been watching more closely - she should have and I said so....I will not allow my own children to approach dogs without asking their owner's for permission....but that dog could have killed her!!!  Muzzle it - especially at the vet's office instead of making excuses about why it got nasty.  We can argue until the cows come home that animals get upset, scared etc at the vets....but that suggests to me that muzzling is probably the best option all around to avoid this kind of thing.  It seems like this is a gauntlet thrown down of who has turf privileges - a dog owner who doesn't think they should have to muzzle their aggressive animal and a clueless mom who doesn't think she should have to watch her child.

Who loses?  A child could be mauled and an animal could be put down - all avoidable with a muzzle.

I don't hate dogsand I am not afraid of them...but I like kids better and a child's welfare will trump a dogs every single time for me.

Sorry, no. No muzzle here. The child invaded the dog's space and any consequence is solely on the child and her mother. It's not up to the dog owner to keep other people safe from their own stupidity.

You may not hate dogs or be afraid of them but you are taking an extreme position. In general, I might agree with you that the child's welfare trumps the dogs, but not in a vet's office. You might equally say that a child's welfare trumps a car's in all situations, but a child still doesn't belong wandering in the middle of the street.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

thedudeabides

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2013, 04:44:28 PM »
If the dog should have been muzzled, the kid should have been leashed. And apparently Mom needed to have that cellphone forcibly removed from her person so as to actually parent her child.

laud_shy_girl

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2013, 04:50:12 PM »
A vet is a place for sick dogs and I think that the dog is not to blame. I always assume an animal at the vets is in pain and unless I have too I would not take a child in to a vet simply because the temptation would be to much for them to try and pet the dogs. that SS mum needs to watch her child. that poor dog was probably scared.

On the point of muzzles I think all dogs large and small (yes even Chihuahua) should have to ware them when out. not to protect people from dogs but to protect dogs from people. however thats a debate for another time as I know YMMV
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Firecat

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2013, 04:54:57 PM »
If the dog should have been muzzled, the kid should have been leashed. And apparently Mom needed to have that cellphone forcibly removed from her person so as to actually parent her child.

POD.

VorFemme

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2013, 05:03:52 PM »
I have a strong respect for an unfamiliar animal's personal space. Not only do I ask the person's permission, I ask the animal too- just because Fluffy's "mom" is ok with it, doesn't mean that Fluffy concurs!

LOL.  Ain't that the truth.  I was in the pet store the other day and there was a store cat up on top of a pile of bags of food.  I started talking to him and got closer and the clerk let me know that he can be kind of grumpy.  But I love cats so I held my hand out for a sniff and when he didn't do anything, I started scritching him around the ears.  I went to get my food (which they didn't have) and came back for more scritches.  The clerk was impressed and said something and when I turned to talk to her, still scritching grumpy store cat, he attacked and started batting at my arm.  No claws, though, so no damage done.  It was really quite funny.

We had a cat who would reach up with his paw to maneuver the scritching hand to where his ears or jaw still needed scritching.  Or if your hand wasn't busy, would walk up beside your chair and reach up to "grab" your hand to let you know that HE needed it.

Resistance was futile - as he was determined to get his ears scritched properly.....just a hint of claw might come out if you tried resisting.  He never broke skin, it seemed more of a way to get a bit more traction on the human hand than just paws provided.......but he'd be butting his head into your hand while holding your hand in place.......might as well scritch his ears for a while!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 05:07:47 PM by VorFemme »
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*inviteseller

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2013, 05:12:43 PM »
POD to Art, thedude and laud.  The problem is people who think that everything should be child proofed.  Yes, some dogs need muzzled at the vets because they can get aggressive because of the presence of other animals or they simply don't like the vet, but if a dog is sitting there with his owner and all of a sudden has turned into Cujo, I have to think the child had stepped on the dog or pulled at the dog.  I will not muzzle my pet so the the special snowflakes of the world do not have to watch their children.  The world is not child proofed, and I feel there are too many parents who want people to make concessions for the chiiiiiillldrreeeeennnnnnnn instead of teaching them how the world works like that you don't touch or approach any dog at the vets because you could get bit.

EMuir

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2013, 05:13:08 PM »
You speak of "muzzling" as though it were a simple thing.  My dog would be in great distress from a muzzle and would possibly risk injuring its own eyes or head from obsessively trying to claw the thing off.  Combine that with a vet visit and my poor dog would be suffering immensely. 

Sorry, but the world doesn't come padded.  Using your logic every dog everywhere should be muzzled because a toddler might run at them.  That is unfair.  What is fair is for a mother out in public to make sure their child is supervised so they don't go running at a dog (or into traffic, or off a cliff...)


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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2013, 05:30:22 PM »
Our vet's office has the separate entries/waiting rooms for cats and dogs.  They also try to space appointments in a way that prevents crowding.

But the waiting room is very small and narrow.  When we take one of our big guys in, there's not much room to turn around.  Plus, there's no way for staff to intervene instantly.  They must go through a gate, then turn a corner and enter through a closed door.  (Which can drive an already-panicked dog into even more of a frenzy.)

Depending on where everyone was standing, there may have been no place for the dog owner to go.

A vet's office is not a tot lot -- it can't be.  I put this all on the tot's Mom, not the dog's.

OSUJillyBean

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2013, 05:35:22 PM »
You speak of "muzzling" as though it were a simple thing.  My dog would be in great distress from a muzzle and would possibly risk injuring its own eyes or head from obsessively trying to claw the thing off.  Combine that with a vet visit and my poor dog would be suffering immensely. 

Sorry, but the world doesn't come padded.  Using your logic every dog everywhere should be muzzled because a toddler might run at them.  That is unfair.  What is fair is for a mother out in public to make sure their child is supervised so they don't go running at a dog (or into traffic, or off a cliff...)

Off-topic but if vet visits are extremely stressful for your dog, your vet can prescribe a mild sedative to take ~ an hour before your visit.  Some of the police dogs had to do that, on top of the muzzling.  And you can bet the one special snowflake cop who thought himself above the "K9 Officers must be muzzled" rule get told off by our vet, a former military veterinarian who has no time or patience for idiot cops and aggressive cop dogs.