Author Topic: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"  (Read 13307 times)

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gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2013, 05:45:18 PM »
 If you knew me you would know that I am absolutely not in favour of padding the world for children....it is a disservice to them most of all....and you would know that I am very strict in enforcing the "ask before you approach / pet" rule for my children.  I do this because primarily I do not want my children to get hurt and I am firmly in the prepare your kids for the world not the world for your kids camp of child rearing.  Here's my big "but" though.....

Dog owners need to keep firm control over their dogs at all time and not throw their hands up in helpless  "But he's such a sweet dog he's never done this before" or "Well that person walked too close.  It scared him"

It seems like we are against making excuses for a child but have no problem making them for a dog and its owner.  Maybe the child touched it....or maybe she just looked at it cross-eyed - whatever.....but that dog was extremely aggressive and needs to be under strict control.  If that lady wasn't aware before she should be now.

I actually don't think a dog needs to be muzzled at all times in public....but in a vet's office - yes I do.  Just because there are other animals, other people etc and I think it is a volatile mix.

And Art - sorry but dog owners do have a responsibility to public safety just like parents have a responsibility to teach their children properly.

artk2002

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2013, 06:06:57 PM »
Nobody is "making excuses" for the dog or the dog owner. They behaved perfectly correctly. The fact that you think that dogs should be muzzled to protect wandering children is your issue. In this particular case the child (and her mother) was wrong, the dog owner was right. In another place at another time, the situation would be different and I might side with the child over the dog. If a dog, off-leash, went charging after the child in her own yard, I would agree with you. Each of us, including dogs, deserves a place where we are the important one -- where we are safe. At a vet's office, the dog is the important one. In her own yard, the child is the important one.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Hillia

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2013, 06:07:41 PM »
The dog owner had control of her dog.  The child continued to approach even after being asked to back off.  The owner was meeting her responsibility to public safety.  She cannot control other people's behavior.

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Aquamarine

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2013, 06:23:17 PM »
No , my dog would not be muzzled either, not when they are at their appointment with their doctor and waiting in their designated waiting area.  I would have told the child to go sit down and leave my animal and I alone.  This isn't an etiquette issue, it's more a safety issue to me and I would have had no trouble telling the child to go away.  If the mother or child didn't like that, that's too bad, the most important thing of all would be that my animal was protected and that we were left alone.  My animal's welfare is more important to me than an some random child with no manners and an absent mother.  Children do not always come first in every situation in life, at least to me they don't.  Apparently the mother is OK with her child learning things the hard way.  So be it, but my animal won't be involved.

As has been suggested in this thread muzzling all dogs at the vet's to protect the random children of the world is honestly quite offensive to me. 

The smartest thing the practice could do is to dismiss that individual from the practice and tell her not to come back.  They can't afford the liability of having her as a client.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 06:26:37 PM by Rosewater »
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OSUJillyBean

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2013, 06:25:28 PM »
That's one reason I'm glad our vet has separate entrances for dogs and cats.  You can see over to the dog side as they're separated inside by the reception desk and a wall, but they can't get to each other.

LOVE this idea!  But honestly I'd be happy if everyone just put Fido or Mittens in a hard-sided carrier (with exceptions for dogs to big to haul in carriers).  As cranky as Beankitty can be, she's never once managed to bite anybody through the bars/plastic side of her carrier.

edgypeanuts

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2013, 06:52:13 PM »
....but that dog was extremely aggressive and needs to be under strict control. 
You do not even know if that dog was aggressive or not.  ALL you know is that it was snarling at someone (not even loud enough for the OP to hear.)  The dog had no other way to "tell" this child that he was uncomfortable or to get out of his space other than to growl and carry on.  The owner DID have him under control and that was probably part of why he made such a big show of things.  How else was the dog supposed to tell the kid to back off?  Best would have been for the owner to step between the dog and the child to protect her dog, but I suspect she could not do that from a sitting position with the dog up against her.

I actually don't think a dog needs to be muzzled at all times in public....but in a vet's office - yes I do. 
I am a veterinarian.  Muzzling ALL dogs at a vet clinic would be awful.  Scared dogs pant, most would have worked themselves into hyperthermia and metabolic acidosis before the vet could even examine them, this makes it harder to evaluate and treat them.  To say nothing for the claw injuries to their eyes and faces from trying to get them off.  The dogs with any respiratory compromise would be at risk for death, as would the short faced breeds as most of them cannot breath enough through their noses.  The elderly overweight dogs would also be a great risk for decompensation and death from wearing a muzzle for more than a few minutes.  It also would make it nearly impossible for the vet to evaluate the animals behavior or normal breathing patterns (or examine the mouth or teeth for that matter.)

This dog kicked up a fuss to stop a child from approaching.  No different than a baby making strange and screaming at new people.  Yes, dogs can bite, but we don't know if this one would have or not cause his owner was being responsible and kept him under control.  The owner acted appropriately, keeping her dog under control.  The mother did not. 

gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2013, 06:54:07 PM »
 I am sorry if I offended anyone - I truly think muzzling is just the best option in a vet's office where there is such an unpredictable mix of animals and people....

Rosewater I agree that you would be within your rights to tell a child to go away and leave you alone....but a child's safety is infinitely more important than an animals.

Bees

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2013, 06:58:46 PM »
Because this is a vet's office I feel like the OP and her boss should have a protocol to handle the situation. You are going to have large animals in a stressful situation every day. You must be trained in how to diffuse a crisis.
  It is not inpolite to interrupt someone on the phone. You are allowed to request her to watch her child and you are allowed to call the child back from danger. 

Firecat

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2013, 07:00:19 PM »
I am sorry if I offended anyone - I truly think muzzling is just the best option in a vet's office where there is such an unpredictable mix of animals and people....

Rosewater I agree that you would be within your rights to tell a child to go away and leave you alone....but a child's safety is infinitely more important than an animals.

..and edgypeanuts has given you some excellent, fact-based reasons as to why it's NOT the best option. And in many cases, not even a good option.

gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2013, 07:07:21 PM »
 Yeah but babies don't tear off faces when they're upset.....

I will defer to you on the muzzling if that is what happens because you are much more knowledgeable on the subject.  So be it....but the whole dogs and kids thing....sorry but it is the child that I am more concerned for.  I just am - turf war over who has the right to be where aside.

I sure don't think that blaming the mother for being inattentive would make me feel much better if my dog had mauled a little kid. 

I don't know why this bother me so much but it does.....I just envision a disaster with that dog.

gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2013, 07:12:38 PM »
I am sorry if I offended anyone - I truly think muzzling is just the best option in a vet's office where there is such an unpredictable mix of animals and people....

Rosewater I agree that you would be within your rights to tell a child to go away and leave you alone....but a child's safety is infinitely more important than an animals.

..and edgypeanuts has given you some excellent, fact-based reasons as to why it's NOT the best option. And in many cases, not even a good option.

Yes I did not know that....so I will concede that point and can even say "I learned something new today"...

But I am still getting bad vibes off that dog's behaviour and I hate the thought of a small child getting hurt. 

VorFemme

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2013, 07:20:33 PM »
I am sorry if I offended anyone - I truly think muzzling is just the best option in a vet's office where there is such an unpredictable mix of animals and people....

Rosewater I agree that you would be within your rights to tell a child to go away and leave you alone....but a child's safety is infinitely more important than an animals.

..and edgypeanuts has given you some excellent, fact-based reasons as to why it's NOT the best option. And in many cases, not even a good option.

Yes I did not know that....so I will concede that point and can even say "I learned something new today"...

But I am still getting bad vibes off that dog's behaviour and I hate the thought of a small child getting hurt. 

Making a potentially sick dog sicker?  Not good.

A child potentially getting really badly hurt?  Not good.

Mom yacking on her phone to the exclusion of not hearing a dog growling and her child IGNORING direct requests to back away?  REALLY not good. 

Poor kid - nobody is teaching her.  Poor dog & owner - small children need more attention from their parents than that poor kid was getting.

It may take a village to raise a child - but the first responsibility is the parent's.
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

*inviteseller

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2013, 07:42:27 PM »
The owner had her dog under control as she was holding it, the mother did not have her child under control because she was not even paying attention to anything but her phone call thus not worrying that pwecious was aggravating a dog.  Etiquette wise, the dog owner was wonderful because I would have yelled at the kid and/or mother for upsetting my, heretofore behaved dog.  Just because a child walks into a vets office does not mean  CRUD MONKEYS! Muzzle the dogs, there is a child here!!!!!  It is rude (trying to keep the etiquette thing going) to expect that everyone conform to your (general) standards.  Just because you (general) feel all dogs should be muzzled in public to protect the children doesn't mean it is an accepted as a rule for anyone but you.   I agree that a dog that comes in with attitude needs muzzled, and most dog owners do that, or in one case, the dog stayed in the car until a room was ready ( As God as my witness, I thought it was the tasmanian devil coming through) but I don't feel that at the vets free range children need protected from the dogs..it should be the other way around.  Gen xer, you keep saying the child is more important and as a parent, yes, I would not want a roaming dog attacking my child, but again, this is a DOGS place, not a childs and it is important that the child respect the dog.  Would you expect a dog owner to muzzle their dog in their own home if you bring your child over because it is easier to muzzle a dog than watch the child?

gen xer

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2013, 07:50:34 PM »
I've been thinking over one of the posts where someone asked me if I dislike dogs or I am afraid of them....and my answer was no on both counts. 

I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone and while I have owned dogs in the past ( Newfies - beautiful animals but unfortunately a short lived breed ) I don't any longer.  So I am not a dog hater by any means....but I don't really trust dogs either. 

I find them too unpredictable.  My own children and myself have been charged and snarled at just walking down the street and I have had the owners laugh it off as "just playing" or "don't worry - he's never bit anyone before"

I think this is why I have such strong feeling on the subject....that people just underestimate how disastrous it could be....we want to believe our pets won't harm just like we don't want to believe our children do any wrong....and when it does happen we want it to be someone else's fault. 

Human nature I guess.

snowdragon

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Re: "Excuse me, your child is about to be eaten by a Labrador!"
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2013, 08:00:53 PM »
It does not matter what the kid did or did not do. If that dog had bit her, the dog would have been the big looser.

The Vet Clinic staff should have been empowered to say whatever was needed to be said to get SS mom off the stupid phone and watching her child.


The Dog should have been brought with owner into the back behind the reception desk or into a "safe place" area.


If this is not a one off - the dog should have been sedated before coming in.


 If this is the first time the dog acted like this - the dog and mommy get a pass.

Frankly I think the mother was negligent BUT in my state it does not matter - if that dog had bitten the child ( provoked or not) the dog could have lost his life.  That's a high price to pay.

  I wish there were more options to protect the puppy from entitled people.