Author Topic: Bowling for Pedestrians, is not my Fault (Update Post 46)  (Read 7711 times)

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jpcher

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 08:26:54 PM »
JPcher, in the US cars don't have to stop at unoccupied crosswalks without a stop sign, but they certainly have to yield for pedestrians whether there is a sign or not.

Oh! Most definitely! All drivers must yield for pedestrians -- so long as the pedestrians are following the safety rules . . . wait, that didn't sound right either. :-\

I think I'm digging myself into a hole . . . please bear with me.


I practice basic road safety and etiquette, I stop before entering the side walk, look both way, wait for cars that are going to pass even though legally they have to stop.

I apologize, SPuck, maybe I misunderstood. I was just asking for clarification, but my question probably shouldn't have been addressed specifically to your habits because you stated that you follow pedestrian etiquette. So, the following is a general statement, and the reason for my previous post.

There are so many times where I find pedestrians think that they own the road. Even on side streets where there is a clearly marked crossing and I don't have a stop sign, I've seen walkers/joggers look both ways as they approach the crossing and still step out into the intersection, barely giving me enough time to stop (and I'm traveling only 25 mph.) These people are not following proper pedestrian rules.

Another problem is at the local train station. There are clearly marked "Walk/Don't Walk" signs. Especially when a train unloads, people walk across the street, eyes glued to their cell phone, thinking "Cars must stop for me so why should I pay attention?"


Back to your OP, SPuck -- since you've had a few close calls on the same specific intersections (mainly the uphill one) I'm curious as to how visible you are to the drivers. I'm sure you're not the only walker that has experienced this. Maybe call your non-emergency number and explain the dangerous crossing for pedestrians. Ask if they could put up a stop sign or, at the very least, a ped-xing sign to warn drivers that they do need to slow down.




SPuck

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 08:51:32 PM »
I always pause and wait at the cross walk for people to slow down, but I had a near hit and miss last year because the person sped up after I had seen them slow down. The same thing happened today, at another cross walk.

Surianne

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 10:02:37 PM »
I practice basic road safety and etiquette, I stop before entering the side walk, look both way, wait for cars that are going to pass even though legally they have to stop.

I apologize, SPuck, maybe I misunderstood. I was just asking for clarification, but my question probably shouldn't have been addressed specifically to your habits because you stated that you follow pedestrian etiquette. So, the following is a general statement, and the reason for my previous post.

There are so many times where I find pedestrians think that they own the road. Even on side streets where there is a clearly marked crossing and I don't have a stop sign, I've seen walkers/joggers look both ways as they approach the crossing and still step out into the intersection, barely giving me enough time to stop (and I'm traveling only 25 mph.) These people are not following proper pedestrian rules.

I don't think that's what anyone is talking about in this thread, however.  Obviously, pedestrians who disobey the law are wrong and rude, and taking their lives into their own hands.  But I think the OP (and those of us pedestrians who replied) is asking about how to make it clear to drivers that they've mis-stepped when they're the ones at fault.

I know that it's frustrating to drivers that there are walkers sharing the road as well, crossing the streets on walk signals and preventing drivers from shaving a couple of seconds off their right turns.  But unfortunately, we have to get home or to work just as much as you do, and we're a lot more vulnerable.  In a car vs. walker dispute, the car will always win.  Even if the driver is the one liable, the walker is the one who ends up dead.  So I hope that people in cars will keep that in mind and look before turning.

LadyDyani

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 10:27:46 PM »
This happened to me 15 minutes ago.

I was driving my daughter's friend home after practice.  We live out in the county, which means narrow two lane streets, no shoulders or streetlights.  Also, lots of hills.  What, exactly, would make someone think that ten at night would be the perfect time to put on their black jogging suit and go for a run?  I did not see that woman until I was approximately six feet away from her.  I was going 55 mph in a no speed zone, and she was in the middle of my lane, and running in the same direction I was driving. If it hadn't been for a super tiny reflector on the back of her shoe, I wouldn't have seen her at all.

I swerved into the left lane, so if someone had been coming over the hill, I would have hit them head on.

Don't they suggest that when walking/running on a street with no sidewalks, you should face the traffic coming toward you? So you know to get out of the way?

I probably should have put this in the SS thread, but I'm still shaking a bit from the massive adrenaline surge.
English doesn't borrow from other languages, it follows them down dark alleys and beats them up and searches their pockets for loose grammar.

jpcher

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 10:30:11 PM »
I always pause and wait at the cross walk for people to slow down, but I had a near hit and miss last year because the person sped up after I had seen them slow down. The same thing happened today, at another cross walk.

Okay, go ahead and slam me.

Just because there is a cross walk does not mean that traffic needs to slow down or stop for a pedestrian. (well, yes, if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk drivers do need to yield in order to avoid an accidental hitting of the pedestrian.)

Unless there is a clear signal (walk/don't walk) for pedestrians to cross, it is up to the pedestrian to yield to oncoming traffic in uncontrolled crossings.

Hence the "Look both way's" rule. Do not ever expect people to slow down or stop, especially if they have no prior notice of crossing pedestrians. As a pedestrian, you may have the right-of-way, but you also have the wherewithall to see on coming traffic before they see you.




Surianne -- you posted while I was typing.

Granted. People in cars should always be on the lookout for pedestrians. I hit a bicyclist once. The bicyclist was damaged (broken bones) and ticketed because he was in the wrong.

Just because you, as a pedestrian, having the right of way doesn't mean that you shouldn't be aware of and extremely careful of oncoming traffic.

(LadyDyani, you also posted while I was typing.)



I'll shut up now.

Figgie

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 10:31:24 PM »
One thing that my spouse has noticed is that if he pauses before crossing the street (in the crosswalk at traffic lights), it confuses the right turners.  He's found that it is better for him to use body language to make it look like he is just planning on crossing the street without any hesitation.

So, he will walk along the sidewalk and step off the curb without any pause and that seems to make it easier for right turners to understand that he is going to cross the street.  If he stops, they appear to think he isn't going to cross and accelerate through the intersection.  And it is a whole other topic about how often some of the right turners don't bother to come to a complete stop before turning right.

As he says...he can always stop right after he steps off the curb if it looks like the car isn't going to stop...it is just that hesitating before that first step seems to encourage right turners to ignore him.

And to be perfectly clear...I am talking about an intersection with traffic lights, cross walk and a countdown timer that gives walkers the right away.  He doesn't do this at intersections that don't have this, as that would be a good way to get himself killed.

Oh Joy

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 10:33:23 PM »
In your scenario, they see you, have stopped or are stopping, and realize they ideally would have stopped sooner.  What is it you desire to convey with your polite gesture or phrase?

SPuck

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 10:41:48 PM »
Here is the situation of two of my recent hit and misses. I am in the cross walk having already started crossing the street. I decided to cross the street because in both cases the cars have already stopped a quarter mile away behind the tracks. The tracks are crappy and people have to stop and slow down or your car will get wrecked. They notice the bad tracks, what they don't notice is that I have already started in the cross walk. I guess what I want to convey is that if you pay attention to the bad track why can't you pay attention to the cross walk. Of course there is no way portray that complex point in a gesture so the point is moot.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 10:43:36 PM by SPuck »

Surianne

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 10:42:17 PM »
Surianne -- you posted while I was typing.

Granted. People in cars should always be on the lookout for pedestrians. I hit a bicyclist once. The bicyclist was damaged (broken bones) and ticketed because he was in the wrong.

Just because you, as a pedestrian, having the right of way doesn't mean that you shouldn't be aware of and extremely careful of oncoming traffic.

I'll shut up now.

To the bolded: absolutely, I'm the one who can die from a driver's choice to ignore my right of way, so I pay as much attention as possible.  I think the OP feels the same way.  Is there something we've said that makes you think we contradict this statement?  I'm a little confused as to your point here. 

AngelicGamer

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 11:26:57 PM »
Wait wait wait.

<snip>
Granted. People in cars should always be on the lookout for pedestrians. I hit a bicyclist once. The bicyclist was damaged (broken bones) and ticketed because he was in the wrong.

Just because you, as a pedestrian, having the right of way doesn't mean that you shouldn't be aware of and extremely careful of oncoming traffic.
<snip>

I feel you need to explain this more.  My brain is hurting from the fact that you ran into someone on a bike, there were broken bones, and you weren't ticketed or (possibly) sued.  Also, in your post, it sounds like you don't really care like you hurt someone.  It could be the internet but that really shocks me. 

I've looked up some things about pedestrians in my state (IL).  At a legal crosswalk, pedestrians always have right of way as long as they are crossing legally.  So, if I'm going across the street, I trump you in the car making a right or left turn.  I actually trump a normal pedestrian by having a visible disability (woo red tipped cane) as I am supposed to be yielded to no matter what.  But drivers don't seem to care, considering how many times I've nearly been hit or had my cane nearly taken out of my hands due to someone having to turn right or left RIGHT.NOW.   ::)

However, if I'm jaywalking, then I do have to yield to the drivers.  And probably would be ticketed if a cop saw me or if I got hit.  It's why I don't jaywalk, but sometimes I wonder if it would be safer than a crosswalk.  Drivers seem to pay more attention to things that dart out from the side of the road than people crossing a crosswalk.




"Life's tough, huh?  And then you die." ~ Buck, the Magnificent Seven.

SPuck

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2013, 12:00:52 AM »
I guess what my main question boils down to, is it rude to yell "hey" or "hello" if I end up in these near hit and miss situations. They mostly occur during bright, sunny weather when the windows will be open.

*inviteseller

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2013, 12:02:37 AM »
I was always taught, that in a crosswalk the pedestrian has the right of way.  Now, in my city, all crosswalks are at red lights with walk signals or at stop signs.  If you are making a right on red, you are supposed to be looking out for the pedestrian who has the walk sign.  If you are at a stop sign, you are supposed to wait until the cross walk is clear of pedestrians before proceeding.  But because some people have the mentality of my car is bigger than your body so I am going to go, I still am careful.  When I was a teenager, I was crossing in a cross walk.  It was early evening, still light out, and I waited my turn.  I saw a truck coming up the hill to a stop sign so I started, my friends a few steps behind me.  The truck paused, then proceeded to go and I got hit.  He kept saying 'sorry, sorry I thought you would make it across before I started."  OK, but what about the 3 people behind me????  If someone is crossing in a cross walk and you (the driver) have a stop sign, the pedestrian has the right of way period, whether you are turning or going straight and it is the drivers responsibility to watch and maintain.  Yes, people dart out or walk/jog/bike in the road but as the driver, right or wrong, you bear the responsibility to watch for hazards.  It is not always the drivers fault, but, as the case tonight of an 8 yr old boy critically injured by an SUV, the driver saw the adults on their bikes but said due to the size of her vehicle she never saw the kid with them, the driver was in the wrong. 

TootsNYC

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2013, 12:40:28 AM »
I have this problem on my lunchtime walks. One of my favorite routes has an intersection that for some reason everyone loses their mind when they get to it. I have resorted to carrying a whistle and when I get the walk signal, if I don't trust that the car turning right is going to let me proceed, I just blow my whistle and give a little wave. I will admit to feeling pretty silly using the whistle but I'd rather feel silly and be able to enjoy my walks than not use the whistle and be a splat on the sidewalk.

Brilliant!

TootsNYC

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2013, 12:44:07 AM »
I guess what my main question boils down to, is it rude to yell "hey" or "hello" if I end up in these near hit and miss situations. They mostly occur during bright, sunny weather when the windows will be open.

Yes, I think it would be. Maybe yelling, "Careful!" in a cheery tone would be not rude.

snoopygirl

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Re: Bowling for Pedestrians
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2013, 07:36:31 AM »
Here in Pittsburgh, it is pedestrians vs cars all the time...and neither yields well.  I really try not to be like my fellow yinzers and jay walk or take on a bus speeding down the bus only lane , but even in the cross walk that I have the walk light sign on, right on red can be deadly for walkers because the drivers take that right seriously!  When I am almost smooshed by someone who feels that the stop sign is optional or that red light doesn't apply to them, I give the little wave and a smile then walk slowly past their bumper.  So far, no one has gunned the engine and attempted to kill me.

This is so true. When I lived in Pittsburgh I walked to work. I had to cross a busy road (thank goodness it had a crosswalk). Even with that crosswalk and my light being green people thought that the red wasn't for them. One lady honked her horn at me and gave me annoyed gestures as I crossed on green. I just gave her a little smile and went on my way. It was green I had the right of way. I did feel though I had to run across that road green or not.

In Belfast where I live now its totally different. People just run across the road and most of the time cars will stop. My MIL does this all the time. She will run out into traffic without looking. She has expressed a desire to visit my family in Pittsburgh. I have told my husband and mom if she does this will somebody watch her cross the roads and don't let her go off by herself. I know that's treating her like a child but I do worry with Pittsburgh drivers she would get herself hurt.