Author Topic: "I never complain but nothing changes!"  (Read 16266 times)

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RebeccainGA

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2013, 10:13:19 AM »
OP, I so fell your pain - my second roommate in college (my last, too, because of how awful she was) would pull stuff like this. She'd complain that I was up in the morning in time for my 8am class, when she'd just gone to bed at 4 after spending all night out doing stuff. She complained that the smell of my clean laundry was 'obnoxious', even though we both used the same (college provided) soap. She complained that the fact that I wanted a nap in the afternoon was horrible, as she wanted to have a private dance party in the room then (she was a musical theatre major, and didn't like using the dance studio's rehearsal space, as they wouldn't let her dance in tap shoes on the hardwood without putting out the protective covering, which was too much woooooork!). Every compromise was to be on my side - she wouldn't budge on anything.

The best advice I can give you is to just ignore the tantrums when you can, and try to be as considerate as you can be. If you can get space for your clothes elsewhere, great - if not, perhaps a couple of storage boxes with lids (so they stack) would be less floor space. Now that the door issue is addressed, that won't be a problem for her anymore. Suggest that she might want a white noise machine or some foam on her walls, sure, but be prepared for PA tantrums because you are on different sleep schedules - that's an absolutely unreasonable demand. Most of all, just remember all this when you look for a new roommate - when everyone's compatible, there can still be some friction, but what you are describing is mild inconvenience from you on your side, and over the top rage towards you on her side, and that's most certainly abnormal.

gramma dishes

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2013, 10:18:16 AM »
...   And, if nothing else, this makes it even more obvious that the OP is doing everything possible to compromise. If the other party doesn't do the same, it'll be clear to everyone involved - which is what the OP is basically asking for - any unreasonableness of the other person to meet her halfway (or even less than halfway) to be clearly shown.

That's a very good point.

JeseC

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2013, 10:26:15 AM »
Or even a $0 rock will solve the door problem!

No, I definitely get that it would have been easy to solve.  I'm more...well, that's not the kind of thing that would have occurred to me to solve, because it looked to me like it was already solved by putting the clothes hamper there!  And her first complaint about the clothes hamper wasn't that it was in the way, but that it was "too heavy" - which I just don't get at all, there's no possible way that bin was heavy.  This really is something I had absolutely no idea was upsetting her until this happened.  And unfortunately, while it hasn't been this over the top before, we've had a few previous incidents like that.

Like one time she apparently was mad at us for making too much noise, so she got up and slammed her door a couple of times.  We found out this was what was going on when Richard went down and asked (in all seriousness) if she needed help fixing her door!  But apparently we were supposed to conclude from the door-slams that it was too loud and we needed to stop moving around?

DavidH

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2013, 12:02:12 PM »
Your room mate sounds difficult, but you come across as dificult too.  I am completely in agreement that her suggesting you not use the bathroom at night or move up or downstairs is over the top.

Since you know she doesn't confront problems head on as she probably should (slamming the door is a great example), you need to think a bit more about what she is trying to say. 

In my experience, roomates are never pleased when the commonspace becomes a catchall for others stuff.  All of her actions suggest that she doesn't like your laundry bins in the common bathroom.  It's not an unreasonable thing to be bothered by so why not confine them to your own space. You even commented that you are surprised she manages to keep all of her stuff in her room.  The arguement that your room is too small is not at all her fault or issue.  You can try to justify the hamper as a doorlock, but the fact of the matter is that there is a reason that most people invest in door locks rather than full clothes hampers to keep doors shut.

In the previous post, it sounds like you are or have been frequently unable to keep up with your share of the chores.  I understand that you've been ill, but from the roommates point of view the fact that there is a reason doesn't in any way lessen the fact that the chores weren't done.  Since you know you need them to be accomodating of your illness, it is reasonable in return for you to be more accomodating on other things. 

VorFemme

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2013, 12:04:54 PM »
If you never complain, nothing will change - because nobody KNOWS that you have an issue with the way things are!

Sheesh - I don't know how many jokes I've heard about a child who never talks before they are five and Mom oversalts the breakfast porridge for the first time.  The punchline is that the kid never NEEDED to talk before because things were always FINE.

MaiLee needs to learn to talk so that she can ask some questions BEFORE she moves in - "I sleep eight pm to four am - is that going to be a problem with the rest of you being absolutely quiet from seven forty-five to four am?" and whatever other pet peeves she wants to have move in with her......  Because not too many college students are taking mind reading lessons and will just KNOW what she really wants.



Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

DottyG

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2013, 12:20:37 PM »
I agree with DavidH.


JeseC

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2013, 12:26:02 PM »
Your room mate sounds difficult, but you come across as dificult too.  I am completely in agreement that her suggesting you not use the bathroom at night or move up or downstairs is over the top.

Since you know she doesn't confront problems head on as she probably should (slamming the door is a great example), you need to think a bit more about what she is trying to say. 

In my experience, roomates are never pleased when the commonspace becomes a catchall for others stuff.  All of her actions suggest that she doesn't like your laundry bins in the common bathroom.  It's not an unreasonable thing to be bothered by so why not confine them to your own space. You even commented that you are surprised she manages to keep all of her stuff in her room.  The arguement that your room is too small is not at all her fault or issue.  You can try to justify the hamper as a doorlock, but the fact of the matter is that there is a reason that most people invest in door locks rather than full clothes hampers to keep doors shut.

In the previous post, it sounds like you are or have been frequently unable to keep up with your share of the chores.  I understand that you've been ill, but from the roommates point of view the fact that there is a reason doesn't in any way lessen the fact that the chores weren't done.  Since you know you need them to be accomodating of your illness, it is reasonable in return for you to be more accomodating on other things.

No, I agree it isn't unreasonable.  My issue is that I had NO indication whatsoever that there was ANY issue at all until now.  And her complaint when asked was NOT that the hampers were in the way - it was that they were "too heavy" (huh?) and that she was mad at us for making noise at night.  I would have moved them had anyone in the house expressed any frustration to me at all prior to this.  But no, the only conversation prior to this was when I asked her straight-out if my stuff was in her way and she said "no. no, everything's fine."  And that's been an ongoing issue - when asked directly she'll say everything's fine and she's not bothered, but then try to communicate by doing things like slamming doors.

I just don't know what to do.  I find it rather unreasonable to confine everything to my room - if I wanted to do that I'd go back to living in a dorm, not rent a third of a house.  But I don't really have any idea what spaces or things are or aren't considered a problem.  A basket of clothes in the laundry room simply isn't the sort of thing I would automatically consider "a problem" without being told, especially not since I'm used to a living situation where that's where everyone's clothing goes.  And this isn't the first time we've had an issue, though it is the most dramatic - I feel like I never get anything other than very vague "can you clean the house" type stuff.  I'm not willing to clean everything to her standards because it looks like a lot of unnecessary work to me for an environment that I would find annoying (seriously, how does she manage that room of hers?  it's so sterile it looks like a nursing home!), but I'm not getting enough information to work out a compromise.  At this point I feel like she's more interested in trying to run the house the way she wants than in actually sharing common spaces with other people.

Bast

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2013, 12:39:20 PM »
Here's a random thought - could the three of you sit down at a computer and try to work out a compromise through, say, Google Translate?  Because it's appearing to me that a large part of the situation is the language barrier.  While she may have strong enough English skills for the graduate program that she's in, she may not feel comfortable enough in a situation outside academia.

Beyond that, all that I can say is that yes, she does need to make some compromises when it comes to living with you and Richard.  There may need to be more compromises made until she moves out, to the best of everybody's ability.
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laceandbits

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2013, 12:41:39 PM »
Just a thought, but you seem to have been in this house? apartment? longer than some of the others, and certainly longer than the person you are having the problems with. 

I also take on board that you have a very tiny room, (althought there are options here too such as a raised bed with a wardrobe and drawers underneath, or under bed storage as already mentioned) so my point is
*I don't understand is why when there was an empty room you didn't switch to a larger one*.

NyaChan

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2013, 12:47:50 PM »
JeseC - knowing that she tends to be indirect, I'm pretty sure her sayign the basket was too heavy (especially since you are saying it wasn't heavy) was her way of saying that she had a problem with the basket being where it is.  I think you may be having a cultural disconnect here - for some cultures, direct criticism is very difficult to do.  People bring up topics and the listeners are meant to be in tune with what they are implying rather than explicitly saying - i.e. this basket is too heavy = get rid of it.

DottyG

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2013, 12:50:27 PM »
I agree that she has a communication problem.  I'm not denying the fact that she needs to work on those skills.

I think the above poster's idea of all 3 of your sitting down and actually talking is a good one.  One that is way past due.

And, just as she doesn't get to dictate how you are "able to live" in your own space (ie, your room), you don't get to dictate how she lives in hers.  I realize that this was an idle pondering on your part, but it really isn't the nicest thing your you to say, I'm afraid.
Quote
seriously, how does she manage that room of hers?  it's so sterile it looks like a nursing home!

DottyG

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2013, 12:52:20 PM »
Remind me again of the cultural aspects here.  She's from another country?  I think that could be a problem, then.  I wasn't aware that there really was such a possible difference in cultures here.


MyFamily

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2013, 12:58:07 PM »
A lot of people keep saying that JeseC should have automatically known better than to leave her clothes in the bathroom, but if when she moved in with the original roommates and the solution they all came up with and agreed to is that she could leave these baskets in the bathroom, than a precedent has been set.  When MaiLee moved in and was told "JeseC leaves her clothes in the bathroom because she doesn't have room in her bedroom" and MaiLee agreed to live in the house knowing this condition, she lost the right to be upset about JeseC not knowing instinctively that this was not something everyone would be comfortable with.

When I was in University I lived for a year in an apartment that was part of University housing.  Our roommates were randomly assigned, and for the first semester it was very good, then one of our roommates left University and we got a new roommate.  When she moved in, we sat down and told her that this was how we'd always done things, ie cleaning rotation, items in the kitchen that could be shared and items that the owner did not want shared, assigned shelves in the fridge, etc, etc.  She asked if we could change a few things (IIRC she hated to  mop, which was the former roommates job, so another roommate switched with her), and it was good.  That is how MaiLee should have handled it or if she changed her mind on dealing with it, she should have said something nicely. 

It also sounds like MaiLee expect that JeseC should do the cleaning to her standards, but MaiLee isn't doing the cleaning herself.  Even now with my husband, if he sweeps the floor and I see he missed a spot, I just grab the broom later and sweep what he missed, I don't make PA remarks to get him to clean to my standard.

JeseC, I think the best thing you can do is put into writing that you are unwilling to make 0 noise after 10 pm, but you will do your best to minimize it by not playing loud music or have the tv volume up loud or be crashing around in the kitchen, but you will not go to bed at that hour (don't say why, just say you won't do it).  Apologize that the baskets in the bathroom were bothering her but tell her you wish that she'd said something to you instead of throwing your clothes around the bathroom.  I am suggesting doing this in writing (perhaps over email) so that she can then look up any words she may not understand.  Perhaps cc your 3rd roommate as well, so he knows you are making an effort (he may be supportive of you keeping the clothes in the bathroom, but it makes it easier for him to see you are making an effort).

If you can move the items out until she moves out, I do suggest you do so, but when you have potential roommates coming to see the place, quickly put the baskets back in and let them know that due to space constraints in your room, you need to do this. 

Good luck!!


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Moray

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2013, 01:22:51 PM »
Your room mate sounds difficult, but you come across as dificult too.  I am completely in agreement that her suggesting you not use the bathroom at night or move up or downstairs is over the top.

Since you know she doesn't confront problems head on as she probably should (slamming the door is a great example), you need to think a bit more about what she is trying to say. 

In my experience, roomates are never pleased when the commonspace becomes a catchall for others stuff.  All of her actions suggest that she doesn't like your laundry bins in the common bathroom.  It's not an unreasonable thing to be bothered by so why not confine them to your own space. You even commented that you are surprised she manages to keep all of her stuff in her room.  The arguement that your room is too small is not at all her fault or issue.  You can try to justify the hamper as a doorlock, but the fact of the matter is that there is a reason that most people invest in door locks rather than full clothes hampers to keep doors shut.

In the previous post, it sounds like you are or have been frequently unable to keep up with your share of the chores.  I understand that you've been ill, but from the roommates point of view the fact that there is a reason doesn't in any way lessen the fact that the chores weren't done.  Since you know you need them to be accomodating of your illness, it is reasonable in return for you to be more accomodating on other things.

No, I agree it isn't unreasonable.  My issue is that I had NO indication whatsoever that there was ANY issue at all until now.  And her complaint when asked was NOT that the hampers were in the way - it was that they were "too heavy" (huh?) and that she was mad at us for making noise at night.  I would have moved them had anyone in the house expressed any frustration to me at all prior to this.  But no, the only conversation prior to this was when I asked her straight-out if my stuff was in her way and she said "no. no, everything's fine."  And that's been an ongoing issue - when asked directly she'll say everything's fine and she's not bothered, but then try to communicate by doing things like slamming doors.

I just don't know what to do.  I find it rather unreasonable to confine everything to my room - if I wanted to do that I'd go back to living in a dorm, not rent a third of a house.  But I don't really have any idea what spaces or things are or aren't considered a problem.  A basket of clothes in the laundry room simply isn't the sort of thing I would automatically consider "a problem" without being told, especially not since I'm used to a living situation where that's where everyone's clothing goes.  And this isn't the first time we've had an issue, though it is the most dramatic - I feel like I never get anything other than very vague "can you clean the house" type stuff.  I'm not willing to clean everything to her standards because it looks like a lot of unnecessary work to me for an environment that I would find annoying (seriously, how does she manage that room of hers?  it's so sterile it looks like a nursing home!), but I'm not getting enough information to work out a compromise.  At this point I feel like she's more interested in trying to run the house the way she wants than in actually sharing common spaces with other people.

Your arguments seem to keep coming back to some variant of "it was never a problem before..." as though that's some excuse for not addressing things now that you realize there is a problem.

What you do now is this: You fix the things that are under your control, stop imposing your stuff in common areas of the house, maintain "reasonable" quiet hours (including being allowed to flush the toilet and speak at night ;)), keep up your portion of the household (including washing your dishes, sweeping up after preparing food, removing your clutter, de-grossing the bathroom, etc.) and bide your time for her to leave in three months.
Utah

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Re: "I never complain but nothing changes!"
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2013, 01:31:28 PM »
A lot of people keep saying that JeseC should have automatically known better than to leave her clothes in the bathroom, but if when she moved in with the original roommates and the solution they all came up with and agreed to is that she could leave these baskets in the bathroom, than a precedent has been set.  When MaiLee moved in and was told "JeseC leaves her clothes in the bathroom because she doesn't have room in her bedroom" and MaiLee agreed to live in the house knowing this condition, she lost the right to be upset about JeseC not knowing instinctively that this was not something everyone would be comfortable with.

When I was in University I lived for a year in an apartment that was part of University housing.  Our roommates were randomly assigned, and for the first semester it was very good, then one of our roommates left University and we got a new roommate.  When she moved in, we sat down and told her that this was how we'd always done things, ie cleaning rotation, items in the kitchen that could be shared and items that the owner did not want shared, assigned shelves in the fridge, etc, etc.  She asked if we could change a few things (IIRC she hated to  mop, which was the former roommates job, so another roommate switched with her), and it was good.  That is how MaiLee should have handled it or if she changed her mind on dealing with it, she should have said something nicely. 

It also sounds like MaiLee expect that JeseC should do the cleaning to her standards, but MaiLee isn't doing the cleaning herself.  Even now with my husband, if he sweeps the floor and I see he missed a spot, I just grab the broom later and sweep what he missed, I don't make PA remarks to get him to clean to my standard.

JeseC, I think the best thing you can do is put into writing that you are unwilling to make 0 noise after 10 pm, but you will do your best to minimize it by not playing loud music or have the tv volume up loud or be crashing around in the kitchen, but you will not go to bed at that hour (don't say why, just say you won't do it).  Apologize that the baskets in the bathroom were bothering her but tell her you wish that she'd said something to you instead of throwing your clothes around the bathroom.  I am suggesting doing this in writing (perhaps over email) so that she can then look up any words she may not understand.  Perhaps cc your 3rd roommate as well, so he knows you are making an effort (he may be supportive of you keeping the clothes in the bathroom, but it makes it easier for him to see you are making an effort).

If you can move the items out until she moves out, I do suggest you do so, but when you have potential roommates coming to see the place, quickly put the baskets back in and let them know that due to space constraints in your room, you need to do this. 

Good luck!!

I think I agree with this.  I really thing people are being harsh on the OP.  If the situation was working before M moved in and M - even when asked - didn't say that it was a problem then the whole thing is way more on M.  And I get that some people are saying that now she knows it's a problem then it's on the OP to change and I actually don't know that I agree completely.  While it might be nice to do so, M would have totally lost any goodwill that I had with her tossing my clothes around the room. I mean really?

And then all of these suggestions about how to make the place quieter? Again, I think that is M's problem at this point. Her requests are at this point unreasonable.  Not using the bathroom because she is asleep? Not using stairs that are in the house? I'm sorry, but those are just not really negotiable (I know people aren't saying that they are). So if she is the one who is expecting something that just can't be met in the current, normal use of the house than anything above and beyond that is on her. If it bugs her so much SHE can get rugs, etc.

I really do think that if you join an already established household there is to be expected more compromise on your part then on the people with already set ways of doing things.  That's not to say that you shouldn't have any input. You ARE paying to live there after all.  But the issues you have should be brought up  in a reasonable calm fashion - not throwing someone else's belongings and then bringing a whole different issue into the argument at the same time.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss