Author Topic: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?  (Read 18493 times)

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Sharnita

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #120 on: April 27, 2013, 07:43:27 PM »
You know, it is interesting because while people proclaim that the service would be just as good I also read a lot of posts that mention American waitstaff seeming more solicitous in comparison to other countries - almost as if some people are unsettled by it.  Maybe the quality isn't less but it does sound like it is different to some degree or another. 

WillyNilly

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #121 on: April 27, 2013, 07:49:50 PM »
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

Just wanted to pop in and say I live in a non-tipping country and the quality of servers is just fine, thank you. I dislike the notion that people only do a good job when they have a direct, immediate benefit from that or punishment for failing to do so. Many people do a good job because they take pride in themselves and their work, because they know they are a valued employee, because they are not stressed out wondering if this rude customer is going to pay them their rightful wage or not, because they value the training and experience they are gaining since they will use it to work at a better restaurant for higher pay, and I'm sure there are other reasons I have missed. I mean, I am a salaried employee, am not interested in promotion at this time, and am also very difficult to fire, but I still work very hard to do a good job simply because, like most people, I get a sense of personal achievement and pride from a job well done for a fair day's pay.

I don't think you understand. In the US "minimum wage" is not necessarily a living wage. In many states it is not at all a living wage and in others its only just barely there, but still certainly a level of poverty.

This article sums it up nicely (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/five-things-you-didn-t-know-about-the-minimum-wage.html)
Quote
An annual salary for a person making $7.25 hour is $15,080, well above the U.S. government’s poverty threshold for a single person, which was $11,945 in 2012. But if you have two kids, the poverty threshold jumps to $23,283, which means that you’d need two adults working full time—which would likely require expensive daily child care—to stay out of poverty.

Note with this ^ full time means 40 hours a week, and does not have to include any paid time off (not sick days, not vacation) and as of now, also no health insurance. Also please remember many place sin the US have no or very limited public transportation, and weather that makes biking unrealistic several months of the year.

Minimum wages jobs are not attractive to the type of employees that will hustle for customer service for the sake of it. Waiting tables is difficult work - its physical, it requires a certain level of customer service skills, it requires a friendly disposition, good memory, etc. In order to attract good employees to a position like that, there needs to be a financial incentive (either in immediate wages or the possibility of advancement).

There certainly are country's that have great waitstaff and are non-tipping cultures. But AFAIK their wages are such that a person can actually finance a reasonable life.

rose red

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2013, 08:01:16 PM »
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2013, 08:33:38 PM »
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.

Depending on where you were in Canada, that might be because they weren't used to the level of tip you left.  Unless you were in Toronto or Vancouver or another major centre, 15% on the before tax bill is fairly standard.  So if you tipped more like 20%, as seems to be the norm from what's been posted, they would have been quite happy with you.
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Iris

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2013, 08:38:51 PM »
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

Just wanted to pop in and say I live in a non-tipping country and the quality of servers is just fine, thank you. I dislike the notion that people only do a good job when they have a direct, immediate benefit from that or punishment for failing to do so. Many people do a good job because they take pride in themselves and their work, because they know they are a valued employee, because they are not stressed out wondering if this rude customer is going to pay them their rightful wage or not, because they value the training and experience they are gaining since they will use it to work at a better restaurant for higher pay, and I'm sure there are other reasons I have missed. I mean, I am a salaried employee, am not interested in promotion at this time, and am also very difficult to fire, but I still work very hard to do a good job simply because, like most people, I get a sense of personal achievement and pride from a job well done for a fair day's pay.

I don't think you understand. In the US "minimum wage" is not necessarily a living wage. In many states it is not at all a living wage and in others its only just barely there, but still certainly a level of poverty.

This article sums it up nicely (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/five-things-you-didn-t-know-about-the-minimum-wage.html)
Quote
An annual salary for a person making $7.25 hour is $15,080, well above the U.S. government’s poverty threshold for a single person, which was $11,945 in 2012. But if you have two kids, the poverty threshold jumps to $23,283, which means that you’d need two adults working full time—which would likely require expensive daily child care—to stay out of poverty.

Note with this ^ full time means 40 hours a week, and does not have to include any paid time off (not sick days, not vacation) and as of now, also no health insurance. Also please remember many place sin the US have no or very limited public transportation, and weather that makes biking unrealistic several months of the year.

Minimum wages jobs are not attractive to the type of employees that will hustle for customer service for the sake of it. Waiting tables is difficult work - its physical, it requires a certain level of customer service skills, it requires a friendly disposition, good memory, etc. In order to attract good employees to a position like that, there needs to be a financial incentive (either in immediate wages or the possibility of advancement).

There certainly are country's that have great waitstaff and are non-tipping cultures. But AFAIK their wages are such that a person can actually finance a reasonable life.

Oh, I see. But now my brain hurts and I can't think of anything else to say that wouldn't be getting political so I'll just have a rest...
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Outdoor Girl

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #125 on: April 27, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »
Maybe they should tie their survey to a tipping schedule:

If you would rate this visit a 1 - as in you'd never come back and never recommend us, tip 0%
If you would rate this visit a 2 - as in you eventually got fed but it was a struggle, tip 5%
If you would rate this visit a 3 - you weren't completely impressed but the food was OK and you'll think about coming back, tip 10%
If you would rate this visit a 4 - Everything was just fine and you'll be back, tip 15%
If you would rate this visit a 5 - The server anticipated my needs and must have read my mind, tip 20% or more

 ;D
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JoieGirl7

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #126 on: April 27, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »
Quote
cynical side of me that thought that way.

I think your cynical side is in overdrive. While there are some isolated cases where I might be made to feel like "just a potential tip," that's the exception. I find that servers, at least where I am, seem genuine in their service and make me feel like they're doing their job well because they want to.

If you've been to parts of the US where you've felt like just a tip, I'm saddened. And can assure you that you found the rotten apples in our bunch.

The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

Yes, I'm against the practice of tipping for everything, can you tell? ;)

I would never dream of taking this out on the waiters though. I know what's expected of me, and I'll act accordingly. I don't want to be the one to give Danish tourists a bad rep when abroad :)

But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

You're not a "tip" you're a customer.  Regardless of how, someone is being paid to provide you service.  They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

reflection5

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #127 on: April 27, 2013, 08:55:56 PM »
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)  But I know a lot of people who render a lot of services and are way underpaid.  There are also people who work on cimmission only - they render services, but no sale/no commision.

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

A tip is not payment for services rendered.  It's a reward for a pleasant dining experience and good service, and (with me) it goes up or down, depending on the quality of service.

btw, in some countries, such as Japan, tipping can actually be considered an insult both to the server ("You need this more than I do.") AND the owner of the establishment ("You don't pay your staff decently.")

Yes, I know........this is the USA,
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 09:21:14 PM by reflection5 »

Sharnita

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #128 on: April 27, 2013, 09:07:11 PM »
most wait staff do far more than that

Julian

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #129 on: April 27, 2013, 09:11:45 PM »
I live in a non-tipping country.  I've traveled to the USA, and made sure I knew enough about the tipping culture there that I didn't end up the 'cheap tourist that doesn't tip' before I went.  In fact, I probably over-tipped on occasion.  I actually got asked once if I wanted change from a tip to a cocktail waitress. 

Firstly, I couldn't fault the level of service there - everyone was polite, attentive and overall excellent at their jobs.

I've eaten at the same 'level' of restaurant here in Australia and New Zealand though, and really, there is no significant difference in the level of service.  So it didn't feel to me as if I was 'just a tip'.  A certain level of service is to be expected.  If the food and service is satisfactory, I'll usually 'round up' the bill anyway, or for more casual places, put the change in the tip jar if they have one.  (Yes, they're becoming fairly ubiquitous now.)

If the service or food isn't up to par (here in Aus), I won't tip, and I'll vote with my feet and not return.  In the US, I'd give a lower tip and still not return. 


reflection5

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #130 on: April 27, 2013, 09:19:51 PM »
most wait staff do far more than that

Then those wait staff should be paid fairly and tipped well.

There are various factors which go into tipping, and not all are function of waiters/servers:

1)How the food matched with your order
2)Whether the food was hot and fresh from the kitchen (or not)
3)How attentive the server was to your needs
4)How quickly your empty dishes were taken away
5)How quickly it took to get your check and have your payment processed,
6)Whether the server's demeanor was courteous and professional.

MrsJWine

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #131 on: April 27, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good. As a former server, I MUCH preferred working at a lower than minimum wage job for tips than I did when I worked for minimum wage plus tips. That doesn't mean a server in the UK who does not work for tips is doing a terrible job without that immediate incentive.

MariaE, I know you said there was nothing wrong with working for tips, but at the same time, it's kind of insulting to say that servers view customers as "just a tip." So I think we were talking past each other. I was pointing out that, at its very basic level, every job is a paycheck. It doesn't mean that the people you work for or with are dollars signs walking around in clothes. The only difference between a regular job and a tipping job is that the reward is more immediate. I loved waiting tables. I loved helping people enjoy their meals. I also loved making money. But no one was ever just a tip.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 09:28:46 PM by MrsJWine »


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JoieGirl7

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #132 on: April 27, 2013, 09:26:01 PM »
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)

But I know a lot of people who are way underpaid.  Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

There seems to be this tendency to villify business owners for being profitable.  They are not pocketing anything.  More profit?  What more profit?  There isn't this huge profit margin in the industry.

Their prices are set to be competitive with other restaurants and they pay staff the same way-  comeptitively.  Restaurants are the canary in the coalmine of the economy.  When times get tight, people curtail their eating out.

If you want them to pay what you think is a living wage, then prepare for the meal prices to rise.  You'll be paying even more because the tax you pay will then be figured on those higher prices too.

Servers are able to earn a living wage now.   Changing the system would harm them the most.

WillyNilly

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #133 on: April 27, 2013, 09:35:16 PM »
...bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay...

When I waitressed my job was a heck of a lot more then just that!

First off I had to get there before my shift started to do things like fold napkins and set tables (which requires knowing how to properly set a table) and pre-ice the pitchers, make sure there were enough butters, the sugar bowls were filled with an assortment of sweetner packets, and there were adequate creamer things filled with milk.

I then had a 6 hour shift during which I got 1 break which was my only opportunity to sit. I needed to smile that whole time. I had to work as a team with other servers, the chef, the dishwashers and the manager to make sure we timed things appropriately, and didn't get under each other's feet.

I had to know what was in, and be able to describe in appropriate terms, every item we served. I could not just say "mixed vegetables" were the side, I had to know it was a "medley of carrots, yellow squash, green beans and bell pepper slightly sauteed with garlic", I had to know the type of mushroom, the type of bread, the herbs used, if eggs or dairy or a non-vegetarian broth was used, all the sauces and garnishes, etc.

I was never supposed to let any one's water glass get below an inch of water and I had to watch the other beverages and offer refills appropriately. I had to carry an entire table's worth of entrees on one big tray and serve them without tipping anything, bumping anyone and knowing who got what at each table (no "selling an entree" which is to say I could not get to the table with the meals and say "ok who got the chicken?" which meant loading my tray appropriately in the kitchen so I could unload in order) and serve from the right and clear from the left. I had to check on my tables and be accessible to be called over to attend to needs. And remember I have to smile through all this.

And it just keeps going with a million more ways it was more then just handing someone a menu writing an order, bringing it and saying "everything ok?" I worked on average 2-3 shifts a week (I was in college) and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only wore my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 09:39:04 PM by WillyNilly »

reflection5

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #134 on: April 27, 2013, 09:43:55 PM »
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work.