Author Topic: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?  (Read 17830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21528
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #135 on: April 27, 2013, 09:46:46 PM »
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work.

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.


The problem is that you really did seem to be saying that with this quote.

WillyNilly

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7490
  • Mmmmm, food
    • The World as I Taste It
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #136 on: April 27, 2013, 09:48:05 PM »
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work. 


It certainly reads like you are saying its not particularly hard work:

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

reflection5

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 436
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #137 on: April 27, 2013, 09:57:58 PM »
Sharnita, WillyNilly - Okay, point taken.  Didn't realize it created a problem.

I know someone who is a server and works extremely hard.  I 'm sure that applies to a lot of wait staff.  I also know someone who does a lot less than what I mentioned.  Also, I didn't think it was necessary to mention every single thing a waiter/server might do.  The point was that there are a lot of people who are underpaid, work very hard, and don't get tips.  I thought I made that clear.  Apparently not.  Hope it is now.  That's the best I can do.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 10:12:21 PM by reflection5 »

LeveeWoman

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4187
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #138 on: April 27, 2013, 10:15:52 PM »
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of attitude/motivation. Does a waiter provide good service because they want to provide good service; or does a waiter provide good service because they want a larger tip? (I realize it can be both - I'm just looking at extremes here). In non-tipping countries I can be pretty certain that it's the former; in tipping countries I'd have more reason to think it's the latter. Nothing wrong with the latter - after all, I'm just a paying customer - but it certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, which it might do in non-tipping countries.

I realize there are servers everywhere who work hard to provide good service because they take pride in their job, and not to make more money, which is why I specifically stated that it was the cynical side of me that thought that way.

I still don't get why it's considered cynical to  emphasize the money. The mortgage doesn't get paid by pride. Pride doesn't put food on the table. Money is a reliable measuring stick as well as a tool in commerce.


Girly

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 899
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #139 on: April 27, 2013, 11:34:19 PM »
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

One of my clients has a restaurant, and they pay minimum wage to all servers. The servers also keep 100% of their tips - no busboy, bartender or hostess, servers do all their own work.

The service is just like it is at every other restaurant I've been to.

However, I largely agree with the rest of your post.

DottyG

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 18204
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #140 on: April 27, 2013, 11:58:06 PM »
Quote
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good.

I think this is an excellent comment. The two ways of service really aren't able to be compared as some are trying to. There are too many factors going into it to do that. And I think attributing a lack of caring about their job to either the tipped or non-tipped server is insulting to both sides. Because the differences in why they're tipped or not is different.

Library Dragon

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1479
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #141 on: April 28, 2013, 12:01:50 AM »
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)

But I know a lot of people who are way underpaid.  Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

There seems to be this tendency to villify business owners for being profitable.  They are not pocketing anything.  More profit?  What more profit?  There isn't this huge profit margin in the industry.

Their prices are set to be competitive with other restaurants and they pay staff the same way-  comeptitively.  Restaurants are the canary in the coalmine of the economy.  When times get tight, people curtail their eating out.


If you want them to pay what you think is a living wage, then prepare for the meal prices to rise.  You'll be paying even more because the tax you pay will then be figured on those higher prices too.

Servers are able to earn a living wage now.   Changing the system would harm them the most.

Yes!  The profit margin is small and the costs high.  Staff is scheduled for Friday night and perishables are purchased, but it pours rain and customers opt to stay home.  The owner takes the hit. 

In the US the trend in places like Olive Garden and Carrabas is to give you another full main pasta dish to take home.  They have to get the customers in the door to cover the basic bills.

            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

Amara

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2629
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #142 on: April 28, 2013, 12:06:37 AM »
I have a couple of stories, the first one on myself.

I was in San Diego with a friend for a three-day pleasure trip. We were doing some sightseeing, shopping and eating out. One night we went to a well-known bayside fish restaurant for dinner. It was lovely and delicious. She gave me cash and I paid the bill and tipped well. At least I thought I did.

We were on the stairs going down to the parking lot when the door suddenly opened behind us and the waitress rushed out. She cried out something like "You didn't pay your bill." I remember standing there stunned for a few moments while that penetrated my brain. Then I sputtered "I didn't???" while reaching for my wallet.

Turns out I didn't. What I must have done was take my friend's cash and put it into my purse without realizing it. I was humiliated that the waitress thought we were attempting to steal from her. I was so embarrassed I couldn't look my friend in the face as we headed back to the hotel. It was just one of those brain drain moments that unfortunately makes one look really, really bad.

The second story took place several years earlier. I used to live in Hawaii and was a runner, a member of the marathon community. Every Sunday morning after our long runs a group of us would head to a local restaurant for breakfast. The group varied from about five or six to a dozen or so. And because the two primary people, the hub as it were, were two slightly older men who were well known to the manager and staff the group was seated in a closed-off area and given special attention.

One Sunday the waitress working our table was not particularly good. I can't remember if she had us before but the service was fairly poor. I can't remember who started the conversation, but I talked to one of the two primary guys who that morning had picked up that tab about tipping the waitress. I guess I wanted to know if he had left a quarter or nickel. He told me something I have never, ever forgotten and have utilized myself ever since then. He said when the service is bad or only fair he still tips the same as if it had been superb. But he also calls the waitress over and as he hands it to her he tells her that her service was not good and why.

When I asked him why he did this he said that anyone can have a bad day. He believed that by doing it his way he ensured that her day would be better, that it was a classy way to handle it, and that he would be remembered the next time he went back. He felt strongly about doing it this way, and I was so impressed with his way of handling it that it became my practice as well. (Fortunately, it has been a very rare occasion when I have needed to use it.)

DottyG

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 18204
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #143 on: April 28, 2013, 12:13:06 AM »
Amara, that's a good lesson. And a compassionate and effective one. I'm going to remember that. Thanks.


perpetua

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2156
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #144 on: April 28, 2013, 01:35:27 AM »
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good. As a former server, I MUCH preferred working at a lower than minimum wage job for tips than I did when I worked for minimum wage plus tips. That doesn't mean a server in the UK who does not work for tips is doing a terrible job without that immediate incentive.

That works both ways, though. I live in the UK where tipping is an over-and-above thing and usually 10% at the most, and I resent the implication that our waiters aren't as good as American waiters who work for tips, seen in several posts on this thread. Like you said, just because our tip isn't the waiter's payment, that doesn't mean they're not as good at their job or that our dining out experience here is inferior.

MariaE

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4681
  • So many books, so little time
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #145 on: April 28, 2013, 02:16:50 AM »
MariaE, I know you said there was nothing wrong with working for tips, but at the same time, it's kind of insulting to say that servers view customers as "just a tip." So I think we were talking past each other. I was pointing out that, at its very basic level, every job is a paycheck. It doesn't mean that the people you work for or with are dollars signs walking around in clothes. The only difference between a regular job and a tipping job is that the reward is more immediate. I loved waiting tables. I loved helping people enjoy their meals. I also loved making money. But no one was ever just a tip.

Ah, my apologies. Yes, we are talking past each other. I thought I'd addressed that in my comment to DottyG. It's definitely not the servers that make me feel like "just a tip" (well... with the exception of one, but there are bad eggs everywhere), it's the policy itself. Attitudes like this one:

But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

I still don't get why it's considered cynical to emphasize the money. The mortgage doesn't get paid by pride. Pride doesn't put food on the table. Money is a reliable measuring stick as well as a tool in commerce.
Fair enough. Guess it's just a difference in thought-process then :) I, personally, am being cynical when I think that way. I would rather think that somebody goes the extra mile because of pride in their job than because they hope it'll earn them extra money. But neither is rude, neither is offensive, neither is wrong.
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7375
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #146 on: April 28, 2013, 02:26:30 AM »
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

MariaE

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4681
  • So many books, so little time
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #147 on: April 28, 2013, 02:30:45 AM »
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

Then why not just add it to the price of the meal and prevent confusion? Then it actually would be stealing (as in the kind you can call the cops for) not to pay it.
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7375
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #148 on: April 28, 2013, 03:02:51 AM »
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

Then why not just add it to the price of the meal and prevent confusion? Then it actually would be stealing (as in the kind you can call the cops for) not to pay it.

Because for the most part there isn't confusion. It's a custom that works quite well for a great many people for a multitude of reasons.

I assume that there are things where you live that are confusing to people who are from other parts of the world.  Are you going to change them to suit those people?

It's kind of condescending for you assume that our customs should be changed just because you don't particularly like dealing with them.
 

sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17372
Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2013, 03:38:02 AM »
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.

Depending on where you were in Canada, that might be because they weren't used to the level of tip you left.  Unless you were in Toronto or Vancouver or another major centre, 15% on the before tax bill is fairly standard.  So if you tipped more like 20%, as seems to be the norm from what's been posted, they would have been quite happy with you.

I took it to mean the servers gave extra attentiveness bc the customer tipped in US dollars, which for  a long time was worth more than the Loonie.   It was like getting a 50% tip with the exchange rate.