Author Topic: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?  (Read 17743 times)

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MariaE

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2013, 04:04:33 PM »
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)
 
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sparksals

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.


I don't think you intended to sound so confrontational, Audrey, especially your last sentence.


I tip when I receive good service that warrants a tip.   If a server has to tip out other staff, which I know is the case, then they should be working extra hard to EARN the tip.   I certainly am NOT stealing if I don't leave a tip.  If I don't leave one, I have dang good reason not to do so... and that is because I received poor or slow service.  I don't blame the server for kitchen problems unless the order is wrong.   


Likening not tipping to stealing is a bit much.  I tip very well and rarely do I tip nothing, but it has happened for for very good reason.


TootsNYC

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2013, 04:25:12 PM »
Sometimes, yes, they do hunt you down in the parking lot/way out of the resturant but it is pretty rare.   

No, they do not really get a minumum wage. Some jobs flat out tell you, you are working for tips. They do have to make up your pay rate if you make less than minumum wage but in reality that rarely happens.

I've never, ever, ever heard of waiters chasing people down in the parking lot.

I have heard of them directly asking "why not a tip?"
That may mostly be because they assume there WAS a tip, and that something must have gone wrong if they didn't get one.

But most of the time, in my experience, waiters don't even know you stiffed them (and yes, in *America,* it's stiffing them) before you've left the restaurant, especially now that so many people put the tip on the charge slip.

Actually, I'm w/ Audrey. I think it *is* stealing if you don't tip the waiter at all. Docking the tip big because the service was bad? OK w/ me. Telling the manager how unhappy you are and THEN not leaving any tip? OK as well. But I've never had service so bad that I didn't tip ANYthing.

DottyG

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2013, 04:43:04 PM »
Quote
I've never, ever, ever heard of waiters chasing people down in the parking lot.

LOL!  Until this thread, you mean!


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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2013, 04:49:20 PM »
Yeah, it happens occassionally, but not from good waitstaff. It's not normal or appropriate behavior, but it still happens once in a while. 

It's not about whether or not they have a "right" to do it, either. People have the "right" to say whatever they dang well please to each other, but that doesn't make it okay, and it doesn't mean they won't face consequences. (customer complaints, firing, overall decline in customer base, etc.)
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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2013, 04:56:13 PM »
One of the very first stories I ever read in the archives was written by a woman who went out to eat with some friends, and they didn't tip because they had poorly budgeted. The waitress went out to the parking lot to ask if there had been a problem. The writer was writing in to highlight how awful the waitress' behavior was. The Dame commented on the story that it was the letter writer who was being cast into eHell for not tipping.

Hmmmmm

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2013, 05:03:56 PM »
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

Audrey, while I agree with many of your points, I would caution that not all restaurants work this way. Some hostess work for base wage and do not see any tips. Some bartenders only get the tips when customers ordered at the bar if the patron tips.

jedikaiti

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2013, 05:10:27 PM »
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

I think, though, that comparing service w/out tips in tipping v. non-tipping countries is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. In non-tipping countries, tips have never been received and therefore can't be missed. Moving away from an existing tipping system is a somewhat different matter - you go from "If I do really well tonight, I should be able to clear $X" to "No matter what happens tonight, I'll make $Y". It really is a significant mindset change. Also, when phasing out the tipping system, restaurants would end up charging more money to cover the cost of paying their servers more money, and a lot of them would probably lose a lot of business due to higher prices, even if the new price were pretty solidly equivalent to the old price plus tip.
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WillyNilly

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2013, 05:12:19 PM »
One of the very first stories I ever read in the archives was written by a woman who went out to eat with some friends, and they didn't tip because they had poorly budgeted. The waitress went out to the parking lot to ask if there had been a problem. The writer was writing in to highlight how awful the waitress' behavior was. The Dame commented on the story that it was the letter writer who was being cast into eHell for not tipping.

Here it is:

Quote
One Friday night a few years ago, after attending an African American History Month program, several of my sorority sisters and I decided to travel to a nearby town for dinner. The meal cost a little more than we intended, so after covering the check, the six of us could only leave a $3 tip. As we were leaving, our server, "Jane," met us at the front door of the restaurant asking if the service had been less than adequate. "The bill was $70 -- I was expecting a $10 tip -- we only make $2 an hour." Stunned, we all walked past her without a word. When she saw that we weren't going to give her any more money, she said, in front of other employees and patrons, "Well, do me a favor and don't come back!" This happened in February 1995. This restaurant has not received my business since.     Business0820-02

And what did you expect someone to say when confronted with the theft of her service and time? When you eat at a restaurant, the cost of your meal will ALWAYS include the 15% gratuity to the server for acceptable service.  Your waitress served a party of six with obviously no complaints about her service and then gets rewarded with an insulting tip.  You should have scaled back your menu selections to match the budget and failing to do so, apologized profusely to the waitress with a promise to return with the balance of what all six of you owed her.  You six deserved to be humiliated in public for your theivery AND thrown into Etiquette Hell for having the audacity to think I would agree with you and pitch your waitress in Etiquette Hell for you. 

JoieGirl7

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2013, 05:13:14 PM »
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

Audrey, while I agree with many of your points, I would caution that not all restaurants work this way. Some hostess work for base wage and do not see any tips. Some bartenders only get the tips when customers ordered at the bar if the patron tips.
Maybe you missed this:

"That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains."

Outdoor Girl

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2013, 05:15:25 PM »
This caused me to remember a study I read in college done by some sociologist or another.  He looked at waitstaff who received NO tip (not low tips) and gave them a questionnaire about their experience(s) of not getting a tip.

VERY rarely did the serve correlate no tip with bad service.  They blamed other actors like a penny pincher, someone who ran out of money, or "foreigners."  So I think this serves to underscore what someone else said - is that if you are annoyed enough to completely forgo the tip, you need to tell someone (manager) why.

This is why I never leave NO tip.  Because then it could look like I just don't tip.  If the service is just a bit off, I just tend to round down instead of up when I calculate my tip percentage.  So if I calculated that I should leave $3.50, decent service, I'd round up to $4 but less than good would get $3.  If service was horrendous, I'd leave a quarter or something but I would seek out the manager to explain why I did that.
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DottyG

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2013, 05:35:17 PM »
I think this is a tangent question, but I'll ask it here, since we have US and non-US present.

Non-US people, do you find/think that there is an expectation of tips from tourists from the US in your country?  I'm wondering, if I'm in a non-tipping country, they see me as "oh, she's from the US; they always tip there, so she's going to tip me".

I'm wondering what the expectation of my server is - that I'm going to do a "when in Rome" thing and not tip or tip because I'm an American.  I'm never sure which way to go when abroad - stick with my norm and do what I'm accustomed to doing or not leave a tip (and feel really weirdly about it).

I know the above stories say that waiters have chased people out asking if they forgot their money on the table.  But what's the "inside their head as they're serving me my food - not what they're 'supposed' to say" thought of waiters there?
 
(Editing to add this, because it might make a difference.  MariaE, I think the reason you might have had this happen to you (" I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much") was because they recognized that you weren't American.  I think this really needs to be brought down to a "tipping is always done country" vs a "tipping is never/rarely done country" type of thing.)

« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:37:49 PM by DottyG »

stargazer

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2013, 05:59:17 PM »


In many states they DO get at least minimum wage plus tips.
[/quote]

Only four states give the federal minimum wage for tipped employees, Alaska, California, Nevada and Washington.

Many states give the minimum of $2.13 an hour. About five states have made the tipped employee minimum wage between $4 and $5.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/minimum-wage/tipped-workers
[/quote]

You are missing some other states: Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, are the other states that pay minimum wage.  And states like Hawaii pay $7 which is less than minimum wage but not a lot. 

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Not that it matters in how much I tip - heck I'm in California and tip high, but thought it was worth pointing out.

Sophia

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2013, 06:05:53 PM »
The idea is silly. I know my evil grandmother never tipped.  She claimed to not truly believe the tips were basically their entire paycheck.  Despite knowing that I'd been a waitress.  No one ever chased her down.

What shocks me is that she returned to eat at the same places.  I not saying she didn't eat a lot of spit. 

I remember I once had miserable service.  It was breakfast in a hotel.  I eventually had to leave even though I'd waited 20 minutes for his attention to ask for my check (pretty unforgivable offense).  I made a great show of gathering my coat, laptop, reading material.  Still no waiter.  I started walking the slowest in my life.  Slower than when I had pneumonia.  Still no waiter.  I made it about 20 feet like that, before the waiter finally showed up with the bill.  He made some grumblings about my walking about on the bill. 

In Europe, I have negotiated the tip (me wanting to give more, them wanting to take less)

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Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2013, 06:15:53 PM »
I think this is a tangent question, but I'll ask it here, since we have US and non-US present.

Non-US people, do you find/think that there is an expectation of tips from tourists from the US in your country?  I'm wondering, if I'm in a non-tipping country, they see me as "oh, she's from the US; they always tip there, so she's going to tip me".

where i live it's noted that tourists tend to spend more and tip, especially the American tourists so some of our waiters enjoy tourist season for the extra money  :) however as tipping is unusual in cases of moderate service some waiters will assume you left your money by accident and may attempt to return it   :P you only really tip if you're in a classy restaurant or if you're together in a group as a way of saying 'thanks for putting out with our boisterous noise!' and even then it's not common, unless it's explicitly tourist season they'll normally assume you left your money by accident. i can't speak for everywhere in the UK but that's what it's like where i live  :D