Author Topic: Between a rock and a hard place (update post 43)  (Read 15254 times)

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delabela

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2013, 12:25:48 AM »
Well, it will hopefully be easier when you move all the way out.

I happen to believe people do owe family assistance if it can be provided (I know not everyone believes this, and I respect that).  However, it has to be reasonable.  If you want to help your parents out in the future, you need to require proof the dogs are trained so that they are manageable.  If not, they need to spring for the professionals.

At this point, your DF has made his own bed - if he chooses to stay with you and tilt at windmills when you have offered him an out, then his lack of sleep is is own fault - not yours and not your parents'. 

Minmom3

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2013, 01:17:34 AM »
From the other thread, which you linked to, it's not clear to me if you still live there. 

That's an old thread: I linked it mostly to avoid explaining about the third cat and why I'm hoping they don't get it back.
I'm currently moving out: I meant to use this week to get most of the sorting and packing done. Let's say it's not going according to plan.

All the PP who suggested DF should stay at his/our flat: I already tried last time, but DF refuses to leave me here on my own - it's not isolated, but it's still a detached house, which is seen as more dangerous than flats over here.

About "you owe us": it's probably about "all the things we did for you and all the sacrifices we made and we always gave you everything you wanted" and so on and so forth.
Some day I'll have to start a whole topic about my mother the disappointed martyr, but it's better if I don't get into it right now.

I guess there's really no way to keep everybody happy this time. I just hope my parents can understand this.

I'd have to say, in familial terms, ALL martyrs are disappointed in their expectations.  If they weren't they wouldn't BE martyrs..... 

One of my BIL's coined the term "Martyr Marks", and whenever his mother would start weeping and lamenting, he'd tally up how many martyr marks were being 'earned' by NOT asking plainly for help needed...Or, better still, he'd tell her she wasn't GETTING martyr marks this time.  Somehow, that didn't sit well with her, and it really curtailed the P/A behavior.  Granted, she got demanding in asking for help, but that was still better than the prior behavior.
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Last_Dance

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2013, 05:47:54 AM »
Please lay off DF: he is not the problem. Judge us all you want but I'm more comfortable having him with me than sleeping at my parents' place on my own. To be honest, I'd be getting even less sleep if I were on my own.

I'll say it again: I  don't want to get out of pet-sitting right now - kind of useless, considering we're on day 5 out of 7. We are honoring out commitment, it's just proving a lot harder than expected - and we already knew from previous experience it could be hard.

My parents will be on vacation for 3 weeks this summer and expect us to house- and pet-sit again. As things stand now, it won't be possible. We'll have to tell them they must take charge of their pets and ideally not depend so much on us anymore - or at least consider our needs before dumping the whole mess on us again
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

StarFaerie

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2013, 07:11:49 AM »
Please lay off DF: he is not the problem. Judge us all you want but I'm more comfortable having him with me than sleeping at my parents' place on my own. To be honest, I'd be getting even less sleep if I were on my own.

I'll say it again: I  don't want to get out of pet-sitting right now - kind of useless, considering we're on day 5 out of 7. We are honoring out commitment, it's just proving a lot harder than expected - and we already knew from previous experience it could be hard.

My parents will be on vacation for 3 weeks this summer and expect us to house- and pet-sit again. As things stand now, it won't be possible. We'll have to tell them they must take charge of their pets and ideally not depend so much on us anymore - or at least consider our needs before dumping the whole mess on us again

So break out the "I'm sorry that won't be possible, you'll have to make alternate arrangement." Lather rinse repeat. Don't be tempted to JADE, you don't need to give any explanation.

And don't allow yourself to be baited by the "But you owe us for all we have done."

Disclaimer: This may be easier said than done, but if it can be done it could lead to what you want.

rashea

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2013, 08:42:24 AM »
Last Dance, I think one of the issues I'm having is your claim that you don't live there. I get that you are currently moving, and I think that's a good idea for a lot of reasons. But, if you're staying there, even semi-regularly, and your stuff is there, I consider you to still be living there. To me, that obligates you to pet sit.

I won't go off on your DF. But, his lack of sleep is not on your parents. He doesn't need to stay to fulfill their needs, he's staying because of you. So, while I'm sorry that you're both sleep deprived, you need to separate that from the issue of sitting for the animals.

For the future, I do think you need to think about what kind of favors you want to exchange with your family. Do you want help from them with pet sitting? Money? A place to go if needed? What are you willing to do in exchange? Because relationships are exchanges. So if you don't want to pet sit in the future, will you be okay with not getting any further support from them. I certainly agree that you don't owe them anything for raising you, but you're now, I assume, and adult and anything they do for you know you do sort of owe them for.
"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

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Winterlight

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2013, 09:31:10 AM »
OK, let's stick to looking at the future. There's no point in trying to change things with two days to go on this job.

Next time they ask, tell them no. When your mom starts the Martyr dance, drop the rope. "It won't be possible." Don't JADE or let them pull you into a debate. Be prepared to hear that you're ungrateful, a bad daughter, etc. You aren't- you're a daughter who's establishing boundaries for her new life with her DF.
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To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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TootsNYC

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2013, 10:56:48 AM »
We'll have to tell them they must take charge of their pets and ideally not depend so much on us anymore - or at least consider our needs before dumping the whole mess on us again.

No, you don't need to tell them they must take charge of their pets.

That's lecturing, and it's rude.

It's also going to mess up your effectiveness and sour your tone of voice (and turn it into a fight) if you let that thought linger in your head.

Stick to the basics: You can't pet sit anymore.

Just say, "Sorry, Mom, we won't be able to pet sit for you."

DavidH

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2013, 11:37:43 AM »
Given your update, I think the best option in the future would be to agree to do the amount you think is reasonable.  So from your first post, you can say that you'll take the cats and watch them in your flat, but they will have to make other arrangements for the dogs.  If they say "don't you think you owe us" you will need to answer something along the lines of that's why we're watching the cats.  You may want to bring this up soon, so they have plenty of time to make other plans.  For example, when they get back, you could say that pet sitting was much harder on you than you expected and that you weren't able to sleep, so that they'll have to make different arrangements next time.  Since the issue is you and not really DF at all, since it is you who insist he stay there, I'd suggest leaving him out of your discussion entirely. 

All of this means that you have to complete moving out before they get back since it will be difficult to say that no you won't help them out, but thank you for continuing to store your stuff. 

Last_Dance

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place (update post 38)
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2013, 04:17:51 AM »
We are going to talk to my parents tomorrow evening.
Right now our strategy is 1) state the facts (i.e. we can't do this anymore), 2) be open to working out a solution; 3) keep calm.

Let's hope it works...
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

nolechica

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place (update post 38)
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2013, 04:42:29 AM »
We are going to talk to my parents tomorrow evening.
Right now our strategy is 1) state the facts (i.e. we can't do this anymore), 2) be open to working out a solution; 3) keep calm.

Let's hope it works...

Good luck!

Mikayla

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2013, 12:55:45 PM »
Good luck on your convo, OP.

My only other comment is to POD earlier ones about the significance of whether or not you still live there.  From their standpoint, you weren't house or pet sitting.  It's an existing household, 2 of the members took a trip, and the household pets stayed home. 

If nothing else, you might want to acknowledge that aspect when you talk to them if it will change by the time they take this vacation.  In that situation, you would be pet sitting and that's not something they can take for granted.

Lynn2000

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2013, 02:37:34 PM »
OP, I know you've addressed the "where do you live" thing already--IIRC, you've moved out, but it's been very recently, and you're still in the process of transferring some of your stuff from your parents' place to your place, right? So this seems like it would actually be a great time to try and change your parents' expectations of how you'll be interacting with them, with the excuse that it's not because they've done anything wrong, but because you now have your own home and responsibilities there. So, they can no longer take for granted that you will pet/house-sit and need to ask you well in advance, and accept that you might very well say no due to other responsibilities you have.

Of course they might have trouble accepting that, but I think it's a reasonable time to break with old behaviors that you don't really like. And that could be a "safer" opener to the conversation that might keep them less defensive.
~Lynn2000

Last_Dance

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place (update post 42)
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2013, 04:41:13 AM »
So we talked to my parents. DF thinks it went well, I... am not so sure.

On the bright side, they had to listen and now can't pretend they don't know there's a problem.

On the downside, my father and DF had to grab some things from the garage, so as soon as they left I got ambushed by my mother and I wasn't very good at keeping calm.

Apparently, we are being "selfish" - please note: I offered to come and stay with the cats and dogs during the day, feed them and then go to sleep back home, but that's not good enough. We cannot possibly leave the house unattended by night because "somebody could break in and if they don't find anything to steal, they'll break our furniture". So I'm supposed to get my bones broken to protect their furniture. Nice to know that.

At this point I pointed out that if they want to treat me like a pet-sitter (i.e. tell me what to do, when to do it and expect me to do everything their way), they'll have to pay me. Cue: "Why we must always pay, nobody ever paid us for everything we did." Not my finest moment, I know.

There's absolutely no problem with the dogs, they're fine being confined in our garden and they don't need more attention. Leash training them and walking them a bit would not tire them. My parents can't possibly take the dogs with them on vacation because they (the dogs) are too delicate (that might be true, they did have a lot of health problems as puppies - about two years ago. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they haven't seen a vet in about a year...) 

They thought taking in all the cats and dogs was a "shared decision" and "sacrifices must be made" - plus a couple of digs about "not abandoning our pets" (We never suggested that!!!).
When I tried to point out I didn't appreciate those digs, my mother said it's their problem and they'll deal with as they see fit. I'm afraid that means I won't get a say in any future decision concerning the pets.

In short, I am back to being a bad daughter and a terrible person. I'm getting sick and tired of being the designated scapegoat.
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

eee

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place (update post 42)
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2013, 05:35:28 AM »

Apparently, we are being "selfish" - please note: I offered to come and stay with the cats and dogs during the day, feed them and then go to sleep back home, but that's not good enough. We cannot possibly leave the house unattended by night because "somebody could break in and if they don't find anything to steal, they'll break our furniture". So I'm supposed to get my bones broken to protect their furniture. Nice to know that.


This all sounds rather wild. What kind of neighbourhood is this where even the furniture is too apprehensive to spend the night alone??

Last_Dance

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Re: Between a rock and a hard place
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2013, 06:22:35 AM »
It's a very nice neighbourhood and my parents' furniture is expensive.
However, furniture thieves are more likely to target castles or museums (it happened) and frankly, the neighbours would notice a moving van in the middle of the night!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 06:32:16 AM by Last_Dance »
We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.