Does invited to join in plans mean you can change them to suit yourself?

[Felica]

I know that when you invite someone to do something with you then etiquette says you do your best to make sure they are accomodated and happy, but at what point do they become rude for trying to change your plans to suit themselves?

Here's a scenario as an example. I decide to go to a neighboring town to see a particular movie on a certain day and while I am there, I want to eat at a certain restaurant that I only get to eat at when in that town.

I speak to a relative on the phone, say Cousin Mary. I mention in the course of conversation to Mary that I am going to see X movie and eat at x restaurant on Saturday. Mary says, "Oh, I want to see that movie!"

Thinking I am being a good cousin, I say, "Well, you are welcome to come with me if you like." Mary enthusiastically agrees.

But you warn Mary, "Listen, I can't leave home til 2 pm because I'm waiting on a package and mail runs around 1:30 on Saturday. Also, I have to be back home by 8:30 because my in-laws are comming over then and I promised DH I would be here. I have my time alloted to arrive at the theater and see the 3:15 show and I'm making reservations at the restaurant to sit down and eat at 6pm. That way we
can leave by about 7pm or so and I"ll be home in time for our company. I'm on a pretty tight schedule that day. Is that ok with you?"

Mary says yes so I go ahead and fandango tickets and make reservations.

Then Saturday gets here, we ride together and Mary goes with me to the movie as planned. But after the movie Mary wants to run to a nearby mall to go in a store to 'pick some thing up'. I protest politely because of dinner reservations but she claims it will only take a minute. She is my guest, so I reluctantly say ok. Of couse we miss our reservations because it's the mall on Saturday evening. Then Mary claims she didn't want to eat there anyway, she wants to eat at "BIG FANCY RESTAURANT". I explain to her that I really can't eat there as I only have a certain amout alloted for funds for this trip, and because I know BFR will be hugely crowded and we can't wait if I am to make it home on time.

In the end, we end up eating fast food on the way home because I can't wait any longer and put my foot down about being late for my company. Mary pouts and I quietly steam.

At the end of this scenario, obviously, I'm never going to invite Mary along again. But what I want to know is this: When you invite someone along for a loosely planned day, say "Let's go shopping', then the plans are open to interpretation and can be changed. But when you invite someone along to something specific, and let them know before hand you have a specific timeline and plan, who is rude, you for not accomodating your guest's wishes, or them for trying to change things after they've been warned they need to run a specific way?

In the above scenario, (Which I made up, to illustrate) if Mary had said she wanted to eat at Y restaurant instead of X and go to Z shop, I'd have said we'd have to plan something together another time because that wouldn't fit in my plans for that day. But what do you do when you don't know until the moment?

[ShadesOfGrey]

I know that when you invite someone to do something with you then etiquette says you do your best to make sure they are accomodated and happy, but at what point do they become rude for trying to change your plans to suit themselves?

At the end of this scenario, obviously, I'm never going to invite Mary along again.

First, you simply stand your ground about the time and general budget, but if there is another restaurant that fits the general bill of the original plans, I say go for it.  You offer to take her home if she no longer wants to go with the plan that is within XX budget or XX time frame.  Yes that may mean that you have to miss your dinner plans, and it's unfair, but such is life, and you have learned a lesson about cousin mary's behavior. 

Also, I am not a big fan of saying "never again" after 1 or 2 infractions (barring that the behavior is completely egregious).  I prefer to keep those for long-term patterns of poor behavior.  Sometimes friends (real friends) need a couple of chances.

[Venus193]

This scenario, as you have described it, demonstrates passive-aggressive behavior.  She agrees to your plans until you are at the point of execution and changes them, making you "captive."

Nothing short of an emergency (like getting a prescription) should change plans you've made here if you are the host.  Had she not wanted to dine at the place of your choice, she should have said something up front.  Following that up with a wish to dine at the Big Fancy Restaurant would only have been acceptable if she were offering to foot the bill. 

If this person has done this more than once, I say you don't need her.

[Lisbeth]

I think that you had every right to say, "Mary, when I extended you the invitation, I told you that my time and budget were fixed.  You agreed to those conditions.  I don't appreciate your complaining about the plans and demanding that I change them after the fact.  I am going to stick with the original plans, and you can shop and eat at Big Fancy Restaurant on your own time and dollar.  If you still don't agree with that, you are welcome to leave now."

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

What about when someone invites you to ride with them, tells you the plans, and then changes them when it's too late to get another ride?

This has happened to me quite a few times already. One example that stands out in my mind is when our staff went out for lunch a year or so ago.My friend Selma offered to let me ride with her, saying that we wouldn't be out too late. "We'll just eat and then make our excuses and leave. We should be home by four if we leave at half past three {in the afternoon}." I said, "That's great; thanks! I want to be home before five so I can watch Angel {Angel was on at 5 p.m. here on Fridays before it was cancelled}."

So when we got there, 3:30 came and went, then 3:40. I finally said, "Um, didn't you want to leave?" Selma sits there and says, "No, I'm enjoying socializing! I think we'll stay longer." I said, "But you said we'd leave at 3:30 and it's nearly 3:45 already. If we wait until after four, we'll hit traffic and never get home before five." Another friend, Lauren, turns to me and says, "You won't die if you miss Angel. We're staying!!"

So I was stuck there for another two freaking hours and didn't enjoy myself at all. I felt rather miffed, but I didn't complain any further because it would have been whining, and she was doing me a favour giving me a ride.

These days before accepting rides I ask numerous times, "Are we leaving at X time? Are you sure? You won't want to stay longer? If you do, you won't get upset if I ride with someone else?" etc. I think it's rude to change plans once they're made, even if you think the other person's plans are trivial (like my wanting to watch Angel - they don't rerun stuff here, so if you miss it, you miss it).

Was I right to be miffed about that?

[Lisbeth]

What about when someone invites you to ride with them, tells you the plans, and then changes them when it's too late to get another ride?

This has happened to me quite a few times already. One example that stands out in my mind is when our staff went out for lunch a year or so ago.My friend Selma offered to let me ride with her, saying that we wouldn't be out too late. "We'll just eat and then make our excuses and leave. We should be home by four if we leave at half past three {in the afternoon}." I said, "That's great; thanks! I want to be home before five so I can watch Angel {Angel was on at 5 p.m. here on Fridays before it was cancelled}."

So when we got there, 3:30 came and went, then 3:40. I finally said, "Um, didn't you want to leave?" Selma sits there and says, "No, I'm enjoying socializing! I think we'll stay longer." I said, "But you said we'd leave at 3:30 and it's nearly 3:45 already. If we wait until after four, we'll hit traffic and never get home before five." Another friend, Lauren, turns to me and says, "You won't die if you miss Angel. We're staying!!"

So I was stuck there for another two freaking hours and didn't enjoy myself at all. I felt rather miffed, but I didn't complain any further because it would have been whining, and she was doing me a favour giving me a ride.

These days before accepting rides I ask numerous times, "Are we leaving at X time? Are you sure? You won't want to stay longer? If you do, you won't get upset if I ride with someone else?" etc. I think it's rude to change plans once they're made, even if you think the other person's plans are trivial (like my wanting to watch Angel - they don't rerun stuff here, so if you miss it, you miss it).

Was I right to be miffed about that?

Yes.  That was very rude.  I think if you offer someone a ride, you are obliged to follow up at the time you have agreed to leave, no matter how interesting the scene you are leaving.

[ccnumber4]

When Mary asked to go to the mall I would have said, "Sure, I can drop you off there and when you are finished you can catch a cab to the restaurant."  In my area, at least, this would not really be a viable option and Mary would see the ridiculousness of her request. 

[VorFemme]

When you don't know until the moment - I'd say something along the lines of "Mary Contrary, I told you that we had tickets for THE MOVIE at 3:15  and reservations for Not Big Fancy Restaurant at 6 because I have to get home on schedule.  If you want to go shopping at MALL, we'll have to arrange to come back another time.  We don't have time today."  Then I'd drive to the originally named restaurant where the reservations were.

But at almost fifty - I don't know if I've grown a backbone so much as decided that people who didn't listen when the plans were set up or mention changes BEFORE the reservations were confirmed can make another trip later, on their own money, gas, and tires............

Spontaneity is well and good when you have time to spare.  When the schedule is tight - it is likely not to be a good idea to deviate from the planned events. 

A car accident or similar "unusual" event that disrupts planning is one thing - "I just want to pick up ONE thing" is not an accident.  Unless that "one thing" is something for a headache, cramps, or other "event" that came up unexpectedly...............  It sounds like your hypothetical Mary was "written" to be a passive aggressive type who wants things HER way at all costs.

[Alida]

I think you should have stuck to your original plans.  Mary was extremely rude here, since you told her there was a timetable you had to stick to. 

Never invite her again and, if she asks, let her know, "I have to keep to my schedule.  What happened the last time was difficult for me."

[VorFemme]

So I was stuck there for another two freaking hours and didn't enjoy myself at all. I felt rather miffed, but I didn't complain any further because it would have been whining, and she was doing me a favour giving me a ride.

Yes.  That was very rude.  I think if you offer someone a ride, you are obliged to follow up at the time you have agreed to leave, no matter how interesting the scene you are leaving.

I got a ride, while five months pregnant, with another woman to an American Indian Festival and dance some fifteen miles from where we lived.  I was new to the area and had no idea how to get there...........

Once we got there, I discovered that the only shade was in the first aid area (under a huge tree) and the only seats were bales of hay around the dance area.  It was August in South Georgia (high humidity and temps in the 90s Farenheit).  I did mention being rather pregnant?

At the originally scheduled time - we (nine-year-old DD) were sitting on the bales of hay by her, ready to go.  She wasn't ready to leave for another two hours...............

Between heat exhaustion, sun exposure (I have had sun poisoning before - fair German/Scotts/Celt skin), and nothing to eat or drink for HOURS (prices were higher than expected and my money had to be split between DD and I) with a very limited selection of items available to eat or drink, even for the high prices - I swore up & down that Phoenix, Arizona would be buried under a 60 foot glacier before I went anywhere when NOT in control of my transportation again.  Whether it was car keys or the funds to take a taxi..........

And that didn't even mention the smoking - since it was her car, not mine.  I tried to be a good guest - but to avoid making a mess in the car - the window on my side stayed rolled down to let fresher air in................as I was getting nauseated from the smell of nicotine in the carpet & upholstry even before she lit her first cigarette.........

[kherbert05]

I flat out refuse to go out with Sis's SIL, Betty, because of this type of behavior.

Sis invited me over for dinner, when BIL called and said "We are going out with my family tonight" (I was already at Sis's house)

Sis asked if I minded going out with them. I asked where - because some places they go I just don't like the food. We found out where and it was a place I could eat at.

When they picked us up, we went to another restaurant. Seems Betty threw a temper tantrum. I walk into new restaurant - and smell peanut oil.  The staff deny they use peanut oil.  Betty throws another screaming fit, and say She (meaning me) can put up with some hives. I order a baked potato and salad. (Houston suburbs so the idea of a Taxi to get home didn't occur to sis and I)

The manager runs up to our table 1/2 way through our meal to announce that everything except the baked potato and salad have peanut oil in the recipe. I politely as I could ripped his head off - telling him that they needed to make sure the staff had this information and would relay the information correctly or else maybe one of the TV stations should know about how they were endangering lives. (Local stations were on a hidden dangers in food kick with the consumer advocate segments)

For a while I insisted on having my own transportation, so I would never be stranded again. Now it is a non-issue, because Sis has cut off Betty because she is Toxic to the kids - verbally abusive to older niece, endangered younger niece by allowing her dog to be around younger niece. Dog has a history of biting. He bit Betty's lip off requiring reconstructive surgery. Betty says that the dog has been retrained.

[Bijou]

I know that when you invite someone to do something with you then etiquette says you do your best to make sure they are accomodated and happy, but at what point do they become rude for trying to change your plans to suit themselves?

Here's a scenario as an example. I decide to go to a neighboring town to see a particular movie on a certain day and while I am there, I want to eat at a certain restaurant that I only get to eat at when in that town.

I speak to a relative on the phone, say Cousin Mary. I mention in the course of conversation to Mary that I am going to see X movie and eat at x restaurant on Saturday. Mary says, "Oh, I want to see that movie!"

Thinking I am being a good cousin, I say, "Well, you are welcome to come with me if you like." Mary enthusiastically agrees.

But you warn Mary, "Listen, I can't leave home til 2 pm because I'm waiting on a package and mail runs around 1:30 on Saturday. Also, I have to be back home by 8:30 because my in-laws are comming over then and I promised DH I would be here. I have my time alloted to arrive at the theater and see the 3:15 show and I'm making reservations at the restaurant to sit down and eat at 6pm. That way we
can leave by about 7pm or so and I"ll be home in time for our company. I'm on a pretty tight schedule that day. Is that ok with you?"

Mary says yes so I go ahead and fandango tickets and make reservations.

Then Saturday gets here, we ride together and Mary goes with me to the movie as planned. But after the movie Mary wants to run to a nearby mall to go in a store to 'pick some thing up'. I protest politely because of dinner reservations but she claims it will only take a minute. She is my guest, so I reluctantly say ok. Of couse we miss our reservations because it's the mall on Saturday evening. Then Mary claims she didn't want to eat there anyway, she wants to eat at "BIG FANCY RESTAURANT". I explain to her that I really can't eat there as I only have a certain amout alloted for funds for this trip, and because I know BFR will be hugely crowded and we can't wait if I am to make it home on time.

In the end, we end up eating fast food on the way home because I can't wait any longer and put my foot down about being late for my company. Mary pouts and I quietly steam.

At the end of this scenario, obviously, I'm never going to invite Mary along again. But what I want to know is this: When you invite someone along for a loosely planned day, say "Let's go shopping', then the plans are open to interpretation and can be changed. But when you invite someone along to something specific, and let them know before hand you have a specific timeline and plan, who is rude, you for not accomodating your guest's wishes, or them for trying to change things after they've been warned they need to run a specific way?

In the above scenario, (Which I made up, to illustrate) if Mary had said she wanted to eat at Y restaurant instead of X and go to Z shop, I'd have said we'd have to plan something together another time because that wouldn't fit in my plans for that day. But what do you do when you don't know until the moment?

She knew that you were up against the clock to begin with and if you were driving she has no choice but to go along with the program.  Leave her home next time.  She should have been wearing a button that read, "Here comes Trouble!" 

[jaxsue]

Situations like all of these are one reason I like to drive myself. I admit, I like being in control of the situation. I have had to endure others' change of plans, sense of time (not the same as mine), screaming children or something as small as taste in music too many times already.

If someone insists on knowing why I want to drive (and preferably just myself or a friend I feel comfortable with), I explain I have a schedule to stick to and prefer my satellite radio!

[MineralDiva]

Yesterday, my former office-mate came to the office at just the time I was leaving.  She needed to pick something up.  The timing was perfect, because I didn't have my car yesterday, as Mr. Diva needed it to go to a party we were both invited to, but I had to work until two hours into it.  I had been planning to walk over after work...but it was basically across town.

So when former co-worker came right at 4, I asked if she would mind running me over to the party, so I wouldn't have to walk.  "Sure!  No problem at all!  I just have to make one stop first, is that okay?"  "Of course!  Thanks for the lift!"

It would have been just as easy for her to drop me over at the party and THEN go do her errand; but it would have been rude of me to insist that she do so.  So we rode together to run her errand, and then she took me over to the party. 

I was interferring with 'her' plans for the day.  Not the other way around.  And bless her heart for showing up at the exact moment I needed her...and saving me the walk!