Author Topic: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")  (Read 9184 times)

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Mental Magpie

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2013, 09:36:14 PM »
My first thought wasn't even close to "Wow, he's lying down, he must be lazy."  All I saw was a guy taking a nap.

When I said "from the culture"  I was merely pointing to the fact that he's wearing a sombrero.  A sombrero means "a hat with a brim" and is traditionally worn by Mexicans or Filipinos.  If I saw someone wearing lederhosen, I would think they were at least of German descent because lederhosen means "leather breeches" and is traditionally worn by Germans.  I'm sorry etymology and traditions disturb you, Sharnita.  I have quite an interest in them and take great joy from them.
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Hmmmmm

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2013, 09:41:02 PM »
Well my Mexican-American DH would not be any more offended by the caricature than his Irish- American wife is on St Pats day with people wearing funny green hats and seeing four leaf clovers every where.

I put the protestor in the same category as I do the Westboro Baptist Church...just doing it to generate attention for himself.

citadelle

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2013, 09:46:01 PM »
My first thought wasn't even close to "Wow, he's lying down, he must be lazy."  All I saw was a guy taking a nap.

When I said "from the culture"  I was merely pointing to the fact that he's wearing a sombrero.  A sombrero means "a hat with a brim" and is traditionally worn by Mexicans or Filipinos.  If I saw someone wearing lederhosen, I would think they were at least of German descent because lederhosen means "leather breeches" and is traditionally worn by Germans.  I'm sorry etymology and traditions disturb you, Sharnita.  I have quite an interest in them and take great joy from them.

I really think that comment is unfair to Sharnita. I really thought her comment appropriately expressed the offense that you aked about. I am quite certain she is not disturbed by tradition or etymology, but I should probably let her speak for herself.

Sharnita

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2013, 09:48:04 PM »
My first thought wasn't even close to "Wow, he's lying down, he must be lazy."  All I saw was a guy taking a nap.

When I said "from the culture"  I was merely pointing to the fact that he's wearing a sombrero.  A sombrero means "a hat with a brim" and is traditionally worn by Mexicans or Filipinos.  If I saw someone wearing lederhosen, I would think they were at least of German descent because lederhosen means "leather breeches" and is traditionally worn by Germans.  I'm sorry etymology and traditions disturb you, Sharnita.  I have quite an interest in them and take great joy from them.

I prefer when they are genuine and respectful.  Our standards seem to differ. If the poster had images that had anything to do with the origins of the holiday, I'd be more appreciative.  SInce it had nothing to do with nude napping on the beach, the choice becomes problematic to those who prefer respectful, authentic recognition of other cultures. 

Mental Magpie

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2013, 09:57:14 PM »

The question was asked - How is showing a picture of someone from that culture racist? and that really encapsulates the problem for me.  The idea that anybody would see that as a picture from the Mexican culture or would accept that as a picture of somebody from the Mexican culture is disturbing.

I was responding to this, not our standards about what is or is not offensive.  You seemed to be disturbed that I would see a guy wearing a sombrero and think he was from a Mexican culture.  If that is not what you intended to say with that sentence, please clarify what you meant.

citadelle, unfortunately, I fail to see how Sharnita answered my question at all as I read it.  Perhaps her clarification will help me see the answer.  Until then, is there anyway you can explain it to me please?  (This is not snarky.  I'm still failing to see it so I'm wondering maybe if you try to explain it differently I will understand.)
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Sharnita

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2013, 10:01:27 PM »

The question was asked - How is showing a picture of someone from that culture racist? and that really encapsulates the problem for me.  The idea that anybody would see that as a picture from the Mexican culture or would accept that as a picture of somebody from the Mexican culture is disturbing.

I was responding to this, not our standards about what is or is not offensive.  You seemed to be disturbed that I would see a guy wearing a sombrero and think he was from a Mexican culture.  If that is not what you intended to say with that sentence, please clarify what you meant.

citadelle, unfortunately, I fail to see how Sharnita answered my question at all as I read it.  Perhaps her clarification will help me see the answer.  Until then, is there anyway you can explain it to me please?  (This is not snarky.  I'm still failing to see it so I'm wondering maybe if you try to explain it differently I will understand.)

No, based on what you've said so far, it doesn't seem like you will be able to understand. 

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2013, 11:02:39 PM »
The picture is not a drawing..it is a picture of  some guy (who looks like he is on vacation) laying on a plain beach.  It is not a caricature of a stereotypical 'lazy' Mexican (I have seen these and found them offensive as I got to know some lovely Mexican immigrants who run one of the absolutely best restaurants and lazy they are not).   On St. Patrick's day, my city has the second biggest parade in the country and you see people dressed up like leprechauns carrying beer, shirts with Irish themed drinking slogans and I have never heard anyone say anything (and some are extremely offensive), but because they are not in a group being vilified as the Mexicans in the country are now due to heightened tensions over immigration topics, it must be ok.  Everyone has their thresh hold for what they find offensive and it is neither right or wrong.  I just think that some things some times get taken way to far out of context.  I posted a picture of a cat with a little sombrero on sitting with a bottle of tequila that says 'happy cinco de meow'..does that make me racist because of the stereotypes or silly because it is a cute kitty wearing a tiny sombrero?

SiotehCat

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2013, 11:18:53 PM »
Well my Mexican-American DH would not be any more offended by the caricature than his Irish- American wife is on St Pats day with people wearing funny green hats and seeing four leaf clovers every where.

I put the protestor in the same category as I do the Westboro Baptist Church...just doing it to generate attention for himself.

Your DH not being offended by the caricature doesn't make it not offensive. I am also a Mexican-American and I do find it offensive. My Mexican relatives would as well.

cheyne

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2013, 12:10:55 AM »
The protester is allowed to say whatever he wants as long as he isn't making threats or slandering someone.  If he wanted to be polite, he could address his concerns on the FB page without swearing, write a letter to the party organizers, or take it up with the administration of the school.

Quick question for those who are so offended by the sombrero.  Did you all know that in parts of the US, ranch hands and cowboys wear both "cowboy hats" and sombreros?  The sombrero is a distinctive hat from Mexico but it is not an anachronism, they are still worn by many people (and not just those of Mexican descent) in their day-to-day working lives.

Slartibartfast

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2013, 12:40:06 AM »
Quick question for those who are so offended by the sombrero.  Did you all know that in parts of the US, ranch hands and cowboys wear both "cowboy hats" and sombreros?  The sombrero is a distinctive hat from Mexico but it is not an anachronism, they are still worn by many people (and not just those of Mexican descent) in their day-to-day working lives.

The sombrero itself isn't the offensive part - it's that in combination with the guy sleeping, in combination with the stereotype of Mexicans being lazy, in combination of the whole "holiday" being more of an American excuse to booze up than a Mexican thing anyway.  Just like many Irish-Americans are offended by the "Everyone's Irish today!" and the emphasis on green beer during St. Patrick's Day, or how some African-Americans are offended by depictions of black people being simpletons who talk unintelligibly and eat too much fried chicken and watermelon.  None of those individual traits would be offensive if they didn't have the weight of real (and detrimental) cultural stereotypes backing them.  They also wouldn't be as bad if they were balanced by an equal number of images showing the opposite traits - hardworking Mexicans, teetotaling Irish, educated and erudite African-Americans.  Sure, we can point to individual examples of any of those, but the weight of American culture still comes down heavily on the side of the stereotypes, and there's nothing wrong with calling attention when those stereotypes are thrown around without thinking.

johelenc1

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2013, 12:41:55 AM »
This is a little off the main topic, but  I just want to be sure I'm clear.

It was REALLY a unicorn the guy was objecting to??  I thought maybe that was a stand-in for something.  A unicorn?  I can't think of any way at all a unicorn could be offensive to anyone - except maybe horses, who would, of course, be jealous.

Iris

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2013, 02:17:28 AM »
Quick question for those who are so offended by the sombrero.  Did you all know that in parts of the US, ranch hands and cowboys wear both "cowboy hats" and sombreros?  The sombrero is a distinctive hat from Mexico but it is not an anachronism, they are still worn by many people (and not just those of Mexican descent) in their day-to-day working lives.

The sombrero itself isn't the offensive part - it's that in combination with the guy sleeping, in combination with the stereotype of Mexicans being lazy, in combination of the whole "holiday" being more of an American excuse to booze up than a Mexican thing anyway.  Just like many Irish-Americans are offended by the "Everyone's Irish today!" and the emphasis on green beer during St. Patrick's Day, or how some African-Americans are offended by depictions of black people being simpletons who talk unintelligibly and eat too much fried chicken and watermelon.  None of those individual traits would be offensive if they didn't have the weight of real (and detrimental) cultural stereotypes backing them.  They also wouldn't be as bad if they were balanced by an equal number of images showing the opposite traits - hardworking Mexicans, teetotaling Irish, educated and erudite African-Americans.  Sure, we can point to individual examples of any of those, but the weight of American culture still comes down heavily on the side of the stereotypes, and there's nothing wrong with calling attention when those stereotypes are thrown around without thinking.

Entirely innocent question here - I come from another country and any racism here is directed towards different cultures so I'm curious. Every time I see a Latin American person portrayed in the US media they are either a fast-talking, beautiful and feisty woman, illegally crossing the border, or a member of domestic staff. Poor stereotypes in their own right, but I genuinely have never seen a 'lazy Mexican' stereotype, except maybe in 50 year old Speedy Gonazales (sp?) cartoons. Is it really a big problem and just hidden in the media due to political correctness?
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AngelicGamer

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2013, 02:36:34 AM »
Quick question for those who are so offended by the sombrero.  Did you all know that in parts of the US, ranch hands and cowboys wear both "cowboy hats" and sombreros?  The sombrero is a distinctive hat from Mexico but it is not an anachronism, they are still worn by many people (and not just those of Mexican descent) in their day-to-day working lives.

The sombrero itself isn't the offensive part - it's that in combination with the guy sleeping, in combination with the stereotype of Mexicans being lazy, in combination of the whole "holiday" being more of an American excuse to booze up than a Mexican thing anyway.  Just like many Irish-Americans are offended by the "Everyone's Irish today!" and the emphasis on green beer during St. Patrick's Day, or how some African-Americans are offended by depictions of black people being simpletons who talk unintelligibly and eat too much fried chicken and watermelon.  None of those individual traits would be offensive if they didn't have the weight of real (and detrimental) cultural stereotypes backing them.  They also wouldn't be as bad if they were balanced by an equal number of images showing the opposite traits - hardworking Mexicans, teetotaling Irish, educated and erudite African-Americans.  Sure, we can point to individual examples of any of those, but the weight of American culture still comes down heavily on the side of the stereotypes, and there's nothing wrong with calling attention when those stereotypes are thrown around without thinking.

Entirely innocent question here - I come from another country and any racism here is directed towards different cultures so I'm curious. Every time I see a Latin American person portrayed in the US media they are either a fast-talking, beautiful and feisty woman, illegally crossing the border, or a member of domestic staff. Poor stereotypes in their own right, but I genuinely have never seen a 'lazy Mexican' stereotype, except maybe in 50 year old Speedy Gonazales (sp?) cartoons. Is it really a big problem and just hidden in the media due to political correctness?

I have the same question and I live in the US.  Also, when I think of Speedy Gonazales cartoons, I think that there is Speedy, the normal speed mice, and then Sylvester the cat (same one from Tweety cartoons).  Maybe I'm remembering through kid glasses and there are hidden stereotypes that I never saw? 

I have, recently, watched some Bugs Bunny cartoons and going "...I was allowed to watch this?".  However, you can easily see the stereotypes and how they make fun of them in those (Southerners, hunters, and so on).  Plus, the violence.  I know it's cartoon violence, but those cartoons were violent back then.  They would be so much uproar if they tried to release those type of cartoons today.  Or they would be on Adult Swim or something.




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Katana_Geldar

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2013, 03:06:44 AM »
From what I've heard, Latinos don't mind Speedy which was why he was unbanned. Check his Wikipedia page.

Iris

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Re: That Party is Offensive! (Or, "Those Racist Unicorns")
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2013, 03:13:33 AM »
Quick question for those who are so offended by the sombrero.  Did you all know that in parts of the US, ranch hands and cowboys wear both "cowboy hats" and sombreros?  The sombrero is a distinctive hat from Mexico but it is not an anachronism, they are still worn by many people (and not just those of Mexican descent) in their day-to-day working lives.

The sombrero itself isn't the offensive part - it's that in combination with the guy sleeping, in combination with the stereotype of Mexicans being lazy, in combination of the whole "holiday" being more of an American excuse to booze up than a Mexican thing anyway.  Just like many Irish-Americans are offended by the "Everyone's Irish today!" and the emphasis on green beer during St. Patrick's Day, or how some African-Americans are offended by depictions of black people being simpletons who talk unintelligibly and eat too much fried chicken and watermelon.  None of those individual traits would be offensive if they didn't have the weight of real (and detrimental) cultural stereotypes backing them.  They also wouldn't be as bad if they were balanced by an equal number of images showing the opposite traits - hardworking Mexicans, teetotaling Irish, educated and erudite African-Americans.  Sure, we can point to individual examples of any of those, but the weight of American culture still comes down heavily on the side of the stereotypes, and there's nothing wrong with calling attention when those stereotypes are thrown around without thinking.

Entirely innocent question here - I come from another country and any racism here is directed towards different cultures so I'm curious. Every time I see a Latin American person portrayed in the US media they are either a fast-talking, beautiful and feisty woman, illegally crossing the border, or a member of domestic staff. Poor stereotypes in their own right, but I genuinely have never seen a 'lazy Mexican' stereotype, except maybe in 50 year old Speedy Gonazales (sp?) cartoons. Is it really a big problem and just hidden in the media due to political correctness?

I have the same question and I live in the US.  Also, when I think of Speedy Gonazales cartoons, I think that there is Speedy, the normal speed mice, and then Sylvester the cat (same one from Tweety cartoons).  Maybe I'm remembering through kid glasses and there are hidden stereotypes that I never saw? 

I have, recently, watched some Bugs Bunny cartoons and going "...I was allowed to watch this?".  However, you can easily see the stereotypes and how they make fun of them in those (Southerners, hunters, and so on).  Plus, the violence.  I know it's cartoon violence, but those cartoons were violent back then.  They would be so much uproar if they tried to release those type of cartoons today.  Or they would be on Adult Swim or something.

I was remembering another mouse, which was overweight and never wanted Speedy to interrupt his siesta. If I'm honest, I thought it was an offensive 'fat and lazy' stereotype until this thread made me think maybe it was a 'Mexican and lazy' stereotype instead.
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