Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused

[Virg]

johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it.  So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

[TootsNYC]

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

One thing to factor in, if what you're worried about is what they'll think of you:

They will be FAR more likely to overlook the mess in your house than they will your lack of hospitality.

I know I would! I understand mess; heck, my home looks crappy most of the time. And, your mess is not any rudeness to ME. And so there's nothing to "forgive" or "overlook."

But I would have a hard time forgiving the rudeness of making me go somewhere else to find a potty. Because that is a lack of basic hospitality to ME.

So if you're worried what people think of you: Don't be afraid to be messy in front of them. But DO be hesitant to be unhospitable to them.

[MariaE]

johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it.  So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

I have complete respect for a situation such as that, but in a friendship I'd expect an explanation rather than just a straight "No". Had the friend answered "I'm so sorry. Son has been sick, and the bathroom really isn't suitable for anybody right now" I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.

[GrammarNerd]

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly.  And like StarFaerie, you have to go through most of the house to get to the bathroom.  It's not a matter of just moving a few things into a closet.  But anyway, this was during trick or treating.  The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.

[Hmmmmm]

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly.  And like StarFaerie, you have to go through most of the house to get to the bathroom.  It's not a matter of just moving a few things into a closet.  But anyway, this was during trick or treating.  The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.

But you hadn't invited these people to your home for a favor.

And to Virge's post, if what happened in that bathroom is what I think, I doubt your next daily activity was going to be going out for a bike ride.

At a minimum, I think the friend should have at least said "I'm so sorry, but we are having plumbing issues today. I'm afraid the coffee shop is the only option."

[Sharnita]

But based on the OP, it sounds like she did explain "the house was a tip". It.just sounds like that is not an acceptable explanation or not detailed enough. Is a person required to actually confess hoarding or some of the other specific conditions? It sounds,like she gave an explanation that was general enough to maintain some dignoty.

[MeowMixer]

While it wouldn't be a friendship ender for me it would be a very long time before I did a favour for her again.

I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.

^ I agree with that ^

Seems weird and hurtful to say no so bluntly to a friend that you've previously allowed into your home, she's doing you a favour, and she's pregnant (bike rides alone are bladder jarring, add to that a little one who's an amatuer tap dancer), without follow up that seems very cold.

[Isisnin]

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

(snip....)

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly. 

(snip...)

The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door  neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.

I am very messy person too - one could even call me extremely messy.  I too thought about not letting the authorities in to search (I live in Boston, so it was not a casual thought). Plus, as I age I move slower, particularly when my bad knee kicks in.  Which is why in this case, in which the OP and her friend made these plans days in advance, those days would have been very important to me and needed by me to clean the place up.  But if life had not cooperated and the place was still unacceptable for guests, I would have done what I have done in the past - called the guest and tell her I'd meet her somewhere.  The nearby coffee shop would have been perfect.  The OP could have freshened up and got a refreshment.

about neighbor's asking to use other neighbor's bathrooms. We had one like that.  She would often ask neighbors if her young daughter could use their bathroom.  When we figured out that that was the method to get into the house to look around, we started saying no.  The daughter apparently never had an accident (I was friendly with them and we talked a lot. Either the mother or daughter (or a neighbor) would have mentioned an accident). 

[NyaChan]

While it wouldn't be a friendship ender for me it would be a very long time before I did a favour for her again.

I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.

^ I agree with that ^

Seems weird and hurtful to say no so bluntly to a friend that you've previously allowed into your home, she's doing you a favour, and she's pregnant (bike rides alone are bladder jarring, add to that a little one who's an amatuer tap dancer), without follow up that seems very cold.

She didn't say no bluntly though -

But based on the OP, it sounds like she did explain "the house was a tip". It.just sounds like that is not an acceptable explanation or not detailed enough. Is a person required to actually confess hoarding or some of the other specific conditions? It sounds,like she gave an explanation that was general enough to maintain some dignoty.

If the OP was desperately in need of a restroom that would be one thing, but she pretty much told the friend that it wasn't an emergency, that she was fine with waiting until she could stop at the coffee shop.  The friend, explaining that her apartment was messy, took her up on that.  I also don't see the outing as her inviting the OP to her house - they met at that common point to go somewhere else.  It doesn't seem that OP arrived with any expectation of spending time inside with her friend in the first place.

[MeowMixer]

My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

[rose red]

While I agree it's odd and would be upset if I really had to go (in which case, I wouldn't have offered to go to the coffee shop from the get-go), I would not end a friendship over this one strange out-of-character thing.  I'm thinking of all my friends, close and casual, and if this happened to me, I would wonder what is really going on.  There seems to be more than just messiness.

If things like this happen again and again, then yes, I would evaluate what type of relationship I'm willing to have with this person.  But not after one weird incident (if I cut people off the first time something "off" happens, I'd have no friends).

[NyaChan]

My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

No need to apologize    Actually, I'm now wondering if perhaps I misunderstood the meaning lol

[Kariachi]

Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.

Well, I've got two bathrooms, each with a tub...

Okay, if it's the downstairs tub they get sent upstairs with a "plumbing issues" excuse, if it's the upstairs tub we're good, and if it's the upstairs tub and the downstairs bath is unavailable, well thankfully we've got sliding glass doors on that tub that you can't see through, just say the washer broke and you're washing unmentionables.

If I only had the one bathroom and the possibility of company, I'd probably hold off on my dismembering until I could do it cleanly and without being a poor hostess. Store the body in a private closet or under the sink or something.

I just can't see refusing a friend the bathroom if I could possibly avoid it.

[Zilla]

I have a friend that I meet only out and about.  Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom.  It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself.  My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy. 


I would instead respect my friend's need for privacy and trust that she would be truly embarrassed or put out by my using the bathroom.  I wouldn't be offended and instead appreciate her honesty. 

[Yvaine]

My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

No need to apologize    Actually, I'm now wondering if perhaps I misunderstood the meaning lol

No, I think you're right--its a "tip" as in a dumpster.