Appropriating a picture on FB

[NyaChan]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item. 

[snowdragon]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item.

Nya Chan explains it better than I do.  In my circle if you did not give credit, folks would back away from sharing with you, and if you repeated it more than once, they would back away from the relationship. I've seen it happen.
 

[delabela]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item.

I absolutely agree with the bolded - what I'm saying is that to assume one's position is the default position for everyone in the world is likely incorrect, and where one person may perceive bad intentions there may be none.  I suppose I am also saying it baffles me that one would take offense or end friendships over 'lack of credit', but to each their own.  Personally, I would be happy someone was enjoying my picture/cake/etc, and leave it at that, as it doesn't impact me in the least whether or not I get credit for my item.  But I get not everyone feels that way, and that's ok.  If one does feel that strongly, it is probably best to let people know that before letting them have access to one's picture/cake/etc.

[Deetee]

I was thinking about this some more and I realize that this is quite common. About 3/4 of my facebook friends have a picture of themselves as a profile picture and/or cover photo. Very rarely do these pictures have any attribution as to who took the photo (the only exception I know offhand is a couple watermarked commercial photos). At least two of my friends have photos that I took. It never occurred to me to ask for attribution.

However, I would feel differently if it was a photograph that took skill and/or expensive equipment and/or patience etc... Those should be credited.

[Lynn2000]

I agree that there is variation in what reasonable people can expect re: credit for creating something. I think if attribution is important to you (general), there's no harm in being more proactive about it--whether that's watermarking photos, posting them only at sites where they can't be downloaded easily, including a message on your FB page asking people to always credit you, or politely tracking down people who leave off the attribution and saying, "Hey, could you please tag me in the photo, since I took it? Photography is a serious hobby of mine and I like to know where my photos go, and make sure they have my name on them. Thanks!" No need to sit and stew about it, or assume malicious intent--I feel like most of the people I know are pretty lax about such things, and assigning credit simply wouldn't occur to them. But, I think they would be happy to do so once someone politely alerted them to the issue, and it would probably make them more aware of assigning credit in a similar situation next time.

Funny story: My cousin's wife is a professional photography and posts a lot of pictures on FB. Recently her husband used a photo she'd taken as his cover photo, and happened to crop it in such a way that her watermark was cut off! She called him out on it, in a humorous way, on FB. So even people who live with professionals and completely respect their artistry can make mistakes sometimes.

Re: the cake--I think for me, it would depend on the natural flow of the conversation. IME part of the "this cake is great" conversation is "who baked it," so proper credit would be given naturally. If someone didn't specifically ask, my assumption would be they didn't really care, not that they were erroneously giving credit to me in their minds; and if they said anything about it later--like, "Hey, Lynn2000 makes awesome cakes!"--I would quickly set them right. That's just me and my social circle, though; I can see how miscommunications would arise with people who do things differently, but hopefully we could get everything worked out politely.

[gramma dishes]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here. 

[Deetee]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here. 

I will just speak to why I personally do not care if someone takes a picture of mine. Photography is a very, very small part of my life. I point and shoot. When I get a good photo, it's just a combo of luck and persistence. I have a level of competence, but not skill. So once I take a photo, I don't really consider it mine. It's not a reflection on me or my worth as a person (some of my other skills I do feel reflect on me because I have worked on them). When someone takes one of my photos (which happens on occasion) and reposts it, I'm happy because it means they like it. If someone else thinks that they took it and not me, I don't see why I should care about that. This may be different if this was a skill I worked at, but it isn't-Right now, my pics get picked for family photos as I somehow ended up with the nicest camera (on my phone).

[delabela]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here. 

I find this a bit dismissive.  Not all things are obvious in the same way to all people and all circles - that's part of the fun of this board.  I have tried to understand the other side in this thread while explaining my point of view, and while I may not agree with it, I respect it and would conform my behavior if I knew a friend was troubled by the lack of 'credit'. 

Deetee was far more eloquent than I.

[SingActDance]

You want the credit, you watermark the photo and/or be more diligent about what you post. Caption the photo to say "please credit photographer when sharing or reposting." It's on you to protect your intellectual property. Facebook culture seems to lean towards "photo sharing free-for-all", so I would suggest a different venue for photo sharing if you are bothered by how much access people have to your work.

[Hmmmmm]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here. 

I think this is pretty dismissive of those who've said they don't care if thier photos are used without naming the photographer. I personally think if you care about attribution you need to watermark your photos before loading to a site that easily allows this function. I have taught my kids that once they load something on the Internet they have lost all control unless they do something to actively control it.

[Lynn2000]

I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here. 

I will just speak to why I personally do not care if someone takes a picture of mine. Photography is a very, very small part of my life. I point and shoot. When I get a good photo, it's just a combo of luck and persistence. I have a level of competence, but not skill. So once I take a photo, I don't really consider it mine. It's not a reflection on me or my worth as a person (some of my other skills I do feel reflect on me because I have worked on them). When someone takes one of my photos (which happens on occasion) and reposts it, I'm happy because it means they like it. If someone else thinks that they took it and not me, I don't see why I should care about that. This may be different if this was a skill I worked at, but it isn't-Right now, my pics get picked for family photos as I somehow ended up with the nicest camera (on my phone).

POD. I feel the way Deetee does, about my own photography. This does not mean I'm dismissive of other people's efforts, but I wouldn't necessarily automatically assume they feel that way, so it would be helpful if they made the occasional statement etc. to that effect, and I would try to honor it.

[daen]

What it comes down to, for me, is that I (or you, or anyone) essentially lose control of anything I post on Facebook, or anywhere else on the internet. Yes, I have legal rights to my own work (written, image, whatever), but once I put it out there, there's no way to prevent a really determined person for hijacking it for his/her own use and credit. I suppose I have legal recourse once that happens, but it's not protection against it.

If getting credit for an image is important to me, it's on me to watermark it and make it obvious that it's mine. It's also on me to realize that anyone with enough time and determination (and skills) can still appropriate it if they want. Some sites and posting methods make it more difficult, but I'm fairly certain that anything can be reversed, hacked, stolen, what have you - if not today, soon.

In the end, I look at the risk of appropriation (including the work it would take to do so) and the value of my work, and weigh it against my wish to share it, and decide accordingly. Someone wants to take credit for this post? Eh, sure, whatever. I don't feel all that strongly about it. Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

[gramma dishes]

...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   

[Two Ravens]

...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   

Yes, but if you feel this way, you should probably not post it to a social networking site. I certainly wouldn't be posting a novel (or even a short story) on Facebook.

[gramma dishes]

...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   

Yes, but if you feel this way, you should probably not post it to a social networking site. I certainly wouldn't be posting a novel (or even a short story) on Facebook.

Agreed.  And most people who take their photography seriously but still want to share with other photographers do not post them on "social networks" (like Facebook).   They use a photo site.  The vast majority of people using photo sites know the rules and abide by them, but it only takes a few to mess things up. 

But there are people who seem to think that even though a photograph clearly has the copyright symbol right there, if it's ANYWHERE on the internet, it's theirs to take.  They think if it's anywhere on the computer it's free game.  It isn't. 

Photographers are beginning to crack down and go after people who steal their stuff and then use it or sell it for their own profit as if it were their own work.  It's sad that some people seem to have no respect for anything other people have, do or produce until it's something of theirs.  But it's really just plain old theft.  It's not really any different than stealing someone's novel or painting or doctoral thesis.