Author Topic: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?  (Read 9430 times)

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ladyknight1

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2013, 01:30:47 PM »
This thread reminds me why I am relieved to not have to worry about dating at this point in my life.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2013, 01:49:43 PM »
Regarding Claudia's ancestry, I should have stated that dating sites (at least in the USA) tend to include "Hispanic/Latino" as an ethnicity. But Claudia marked "White/Caucasian/European" not only because she is of Italian ancestry, but because she does not want a particularly nasty stereotype about Latinas to be held against her.

In the Plenty of Fish site, the lowest option actually is "less than a year". I do not know if that is better or worse than to break ut down into "less than six months" and "between six months and a year". I do not consider several (meaning more than 3) dates in the span of 6 months to be tremendously short. In fact, if you make it to the third date, it likely means that there is nothing wrong with you and that there is even something desirable about you. But some people are really judgmental about other people not having been in a relationship before. Hence Suzanne put the "between 6 months and a year" option.

This says far more about Claudia than it does about any potential suitors.

Really, would she want someone that held that stereotype? Sounds like Claudia needs to examine her own discomfort with herself and her background. If she's answering "White/Caucasian/European" because she feels that's most accurate, that's one thing, but if she's answering it because of her own personal hangup about how she imagines people will percieve her, she's only playing headgames with herself.

I think Claudia has every right to self identify the way she wants and it probably has nothing to do with self hate. Italian Argentinians are a massive part of the Argentinian population and I doubt many of them have cultural references similar to the what is normally thought of as of Latino/Hispanic culture. I personally do not think of Argentinians as Latino/Hispanic. When I first traveled there on business, my company provided me with one of our cultural/etiquette backgrounds. There was a passage I loved and have always remembered.  "It has been said that Argentines are a nation of Italians who speak Spanish and think they’re British living in Paris."

My kids are part Mexican. They've not grown up in a Hispanic/Latino culture though. So if they clicked "Hispanic/Latino" on this website, someone might be disappointed they speak no Spanish, aren't Catholic, and have no association with the Mexican culture other than a Spanish last name. Same would have been said for my husband.

So if Claudia identified as Hispanic/Latino and her date was expecting someone with the temperament of a Gloria on Modern Family but ended up with Claire, they might be upset.

Moray

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2013, 01:54:38 PM »
Regarding Claudia's ancestry, I should have stated that dating sites (at least in the USA) tend to include "Hispanic/Latino" as an ethnicity. But Claudia marked "White/Caucasian/European" not only because she is of Italian ancestry, but because she does not want a particularly nasty stereotype about Latinas to be held against her.

In the Plenty of Fish site, the lowest option actually is "less than a year". I do not know if that is better or worse than to break ut down into "less than six months" and "between six months and a year". I do not consider several (meaning more than 3) dates in the span of 6 months to be tremendously short. In fact, if you make it to the third date, it likely means that there is nothing wrong with you and that there is even something desirable about you. But some people are really judgmental about other people not having been in a relationship before. Hence Suzanne put the "between 6 months and a year" option.

This says far more about Claudia than it does about any potential suitors.

Really, would she want someone that held that stereotype? Sounds like Claudia needs to examine her own discomfort with herself and her background. If she's answering "White/Caucasian/European" because she feels that's most accurate, that's one thing, but if she's answering it because of her own personal hangup about how she imagines people will percieve her, she's only playing headgames with herself.

I think Claudia has every right to self identify the way she wants and it probably has nothing to do with self hate. Italian Argentinians are a massive part of the Argentinian population and I doubt many of them have cultural references similar to the what is normally thought of as of Latino/Hispanic culture. I personally do not think of Argentinians as Latino/Hispanic. When I first traveled there on business, my company provided me with one of our cultural/etiquette backgrounds. There was a passage I loved and have always remembered.  "It has been said that Argentines are a nation of Italians who speak Spanish and think they’re British living in Paris."

My kids are part Mexican. They've not grown up in a Hispanic/Latino culture though. So if they clicked "Hispanic/Latino" on this website, someone might be disappointed they speak no Spanish, aren't Catholic, and have no association with the Mexican culture other than a Spanish last name. Same would have been said for my husband.

So if Claudia identified as Hispanic/Latino and her date was expecting someone with the temperament of a Gloria on Modern Family but ended up with Claire, they might be upset.

Well of course she has the right to self-identify however she chooses, but if the reason she's choosing to identify as [ethnicity] has little to do with what she feels is the most accurate representation of which culture she aligns with and what her identity is, and is instead based largely on fear that she might be perceived as having a hot temper? Yes, that speaks to discomfort with one's self.
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Hmmmmm

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2013, 03:25:03 PM »
^^
Well, to me, it speaks to her stereotyping Hispanic/Latino women as hot headed and not something she wants to be associated with.

I think each of us is reading her reason differently. I think you are reading it as "Claudia sometimes does identify as a Latina but in this instance doesn't want admit to it out of fear she'll be stereotyped as being hot headed."

I'm reading as "Claudia never identifies herself as a Latina and absolutely does not ever want anyone to ever confuse her as being one. And just because others might group Argentinians as Latina's she does not classify herself as one."

bah12

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2013, 04:15:08 PM »
I agree with everything that Margo said.  I wouldn't call any of these deceitful nor would I even necessarily call them marketing.  Emma wears clothing that flatters the figure she has...we all do it.  Whether it's to show off an asset that we are proud of or hide one that we are not.  There is nothing that says that a potential suitor has to know every single nuance of our body shape up front (or even at all). 

As for how Claudia identifies herself...I think that can be left to personal interpretation.  I wouldn't question anyone who said they were "American" as they can have a wide range of cultures and backgrounds included.  And I wouldn't question someone of European decent who thinks of themselves as Caucasian.  As a matter of fact, I am of Mediterranean decent, but I'm an American and I always check the "white/Caucasian" box when filling out forms (European, Mediterranean are rarely even a choice).  If she has Argentinian heritage mixed in with her Italian, I'm not sure why that would mean that she has to call herself Latin.  I don't think of Italians (or many Argentinians) as Latin generally and I don't see why one part of her heritage matters more than another.  The fact that she chooses not to address her Latin roots, I think, does speak volumes about her own biases than anything else.  As a potential suitor, I wouldn't think she was purposely deceiving me, but after finding her reasoning, I would draw some conclusions about her own stereotyping.

And as for Suzanne, again, I agree with Margo.  It is difficult to define a relationship specifically and accurately across all people.  And while Suzanne is choosing this box because of her own insecurities/biases, if her dates have spanned across six months, than that is her relationship.  She doesn't have to define it further than that.  As a matter of fact, this is something that I would probably choose not to disclose at all.  I think there's a point in dating where history becomes more relevent but not at this stage. 

whiterose

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 05:16:09 PM »
Regarding Claudia's ancestry, I should have stated that dating sites (at least in the USA) tend to include "Hispanic/Latino" as an ethnicity. But Claudia marked "White/Caucasian/European" not only because she is of Italian ancestry, but because she does not want a particularly nasty stereotype about Latinas to be held against her.

In the Plenty of Fish site, the lowest option actually is "less than a year". I do not know if that is better or worse than to break ut down into "less than six months" and "between six months and a year". I do not consider several (meaning more than 3) dates in the span of 6 months to be tremendously short. In fact, if you make it to the third date, it likely means that there is nothing wrong with you and that there is even something desirable about you. But some people are really judgmental about other people not having been in a relationship before. Hence Suzanne put the "between 6 months and a year" option.

The older you are the more the fact that you haven't been in a long term relationship is worrying. Because it makes you wonder why. Is it because they just had bad luck and never found someone? Is it because they are so busy with other things they didn't have time for it then? Is it because they have unrealistic expectations of relationships? Is it because there is something wrong with them?

All or none of them could be the reason but I admit that I am not looking to be someone's first big relationship at this point in my life. They could be perfectly wonderful, but I don't want to go through those growing pains right now.

I am glad my boyfriend (of almost 13 months now) did not feel that way. He is my first serious relationship. Before meeting him, my longest relationship was pretty similar to Suzanne's case. I am happy that he gave me a chance. And he is happy too.
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Deetee

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »
Like most other posters, I wouldn't consider any of these in the least bit noteworthy. On the contrary, including the information would seem odd and overshare and over the top. It would result in 10 page long bios if you were expected to include that level of detail. If you were expected to mention that your arms are little flabby, what else would be required. eg: My feet:My feet are a bit on the narrow side with 560 unnoticeable light hairs on the top of the left foot and 6 callouses  and the toes are slender. The pinky toe is slightly bent from a bike accident when I was 4 years old....

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2013, 05:27:44 PM »
Regarding Claudia's ancestry, I should have stated that dating sites (at least in the USA) tend to include "Hispanic/Latino" as an ethnicity. But Claudia marked "White/Caucasian/European" not only because she is of Italian ancestry, but because she does not want a particularly nasty stereotype about Latinas to be held against her.

In the Plenty of Fish site, the lowest option actually is "less than a year". I do not know if that is better or worse than to break ut down into "less than six months" and "between six months and a year". I do not consider several (meaning more than 3) dates in the span of 6 months to be tremendously short. In fact, if you make it to the third date, it likely means that there is nothing wrong with you and that there is even something desirable about you. But some people are really judgmental about other people not having been in a relationship before. Hence Suzanne put the "between 6 months and a year" option.

The older you are the more the fact that you haven't been in a long term relationship is worrying. Because it makes you wonder why. Is it because they just had bad luck and never found someone? Is it because they are so busy with other things they didn't have time for it then? Is it because they have unrealistic expectations of relationships? Is it because there is something wrong with them?

All or none of them could be the reason but I admit that I am not looking to be someone's first big relationship at this point in my life. They could be perfectly wonderful, but I don't want to go through those growing pains right now.

I am glad my boyfriend (of almost 13 months now) did not feel that way. He is my first serious relationship. Before meeting him, my longest relationship was pretty similar to Suzanne's case. I am happy that he gave me a chance. And he is happy too.

And how old are you? Like I said - the older you are the more of a difference it makes. What I wouldn't see as a big deal in a 17 year old I would see as a concern in a 35 year old and as a huge red flag in a 65 year old.

And I am glad that you guys are happy. I would not be - which is why hiding things like that doesn't really do much good - do you really want to attract someone with those issues?

lady_disdain

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2013, 06:13:47 PM »
^^
Well, to me, it speaks to her stereotyping Hispanic/Latino women as hot headed and not something she wants to be associated with.

Or perhaps it speaks of her experience with other people's stereotyping.

When I travel to the US, I rarely tell people my country of birth. In certain situations, I will outright lie and say somewhere else, simply because too many men have interpreted my nationality as "she is easy to get in bed", "let me offer her money for sex" or, even worse, "wohoo, lucky night! she will do all of us".

Do I think all Brazilian women are easy, prostitutes or into multiple partners? Of course not. I know myself, my sister, my mother, aunts and friends too well to believe that. Do some American men think that? In my experience, yes and I do want to distance myself from that. I am not placing myself in a bad situation to give someone the benefit of immediate doubt.

Note - I do not think all Americans hold that view! I have too many good friends in the US to ever be able to believe that.

Allyson

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 09:05:51 PM »
I don't think they are misrepresenting themselves, nor do I think they're being rude to their potential partners. All of those things are perfectly reasonable. I generally think it's better to be as upfront as possible about potential 'big issues', not just to weed out those who would have issues with it but to appeal to people who might like that, or be in a similar situation. If everyone tries to make their profile as inoffensive/generally appealing as possible, it's harder to see differences and find people you might like. For instance, maybe Greg is browsing profiles and he's nervous because his relationship history is similar to Suzanne's--hasn't dated since college, knows a lot of women will think 'what's wrong?' He sees Suzanne's profile, and if she's mentioned a similar history, he might be like 'awesome, someone who won't hold that against me!'


blarg314

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 09:11:45 PM »

I'm curious about whether the dating site actually had an option for "Southern European Ancestry, born in South America, currently a US citizen". If not, then I'd say it's up to the user to choose which of the closest options she wants to pick. But the choice she chose *was* accurate - she is of caucasian descent. Someone of Italian ancestry who was raised in Japan would not list Japanese as their ethnicity, even if they spoke English with a Japanese accent.

I would put most of these things under the same category as wearing flattering makeup and clothing and being on your best behaviour on the first date, or using a very good but untouched photo on the site.

For a similar example - some women are grossed out by excessive back hair. But guys aren't expected to show a topless back picture to let those women filter them out of their responses. If they want that detail, they have to get to know the guy, or ask directly before arranging a date.


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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2013, 09:38:43 PM »
^^
Well, to me, it speaks to her stereotyping Hispanic/Latino women as hot headed and not something she wants to be associated with.

Or perhaps it speaks of her experience with other people's stereotyping.

When I travel to the US, I rarely tell people my country of birth. In certain situations, I will outright lie and say somewhere else, simply because too many men have interpreted my nationality as "she is easy to get in bed", "let me offer her money for sex" or, even worse, "wohoo, lucky night! she will do all of us".

Do I think all Brazilian women are easy, prostitutes or into multiple partners? Of course not. I know myself, my sister, my mother, aunts and friends too well to believe that. Do some American men think that? In my experience, yes and I do want to distance myself from that. I am not placing myself in a bad situation to give someone the benefit of immediate doubt.

Note - I do not think all Americans hold that view! I have too many good friends in the US to ever be able to believe that.

This is how I interpreted it myself.

She has experience with people who apply a stereotype to her and knows how badly things can go as a result. She knows that if she doesn't mention her ancestry immediately, people take the time to get to know here instead of jumping to conclusions, and so she can mention it later once they realise she isn't a walking stereotype. I know many, many people like this. Almost any intelligent person who is a member of some minority will be aware of it. My take on it was that she was ensuring she didn't get a million people wanting a date with a "hot Latina," and instead got people wanting a date with a person. Because unfortunately, that's the way these things work a lot of the time.

I didn't think she was being racist at all, but rather, realistic about the racism of other people.

whiterose

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2013, 07:00:48 AM »
In Claudia's case, it was partly due to her identifying mainly as Italian/European rather than Latin American. But mainly due to Claudia being tired of being stereotyped "Latina automatically equals hot temper"- and wanting to be seen as a person who plays the flute/works for a bank/takes yoga/has a calico cat/has read almost all of the Bible, instead of simply "oh you're from Latin America, you must be a hothead! Good bye!".  Hence she marked the "White/Caucasian/European" category- which is accurate after all, just perhaps not the one most people would automatically place her in.

Someone asked how old I was. I am 35. I did not meet my boyfriend till I was 34. Previous to that, my longest dating experience (similar to Suzanne's) was at age 26. I did go on dates (and even made it to the 3rd date with someone, and to the 2nd with two others) between my second longest and my now (and current) longest relationships. Had POF broken down the "longest relationship" categories into "less than 6 months" and "between 6 months and a year", it would have been highly tempting for me to mark the "between 6 months and a year" category. But I met my boyfriend on eHarmony- which does not ask for length- and he does not care one bit.
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bah12

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2013, 12:20:36 PM »
Regarding Claudia's ancestry, I should have stated that dating sites (at least in the USA) tend to include "Hispanic/Latino" as an ethnicity. But Claudia marked "White/Caucasian/European" not only because she is of Italian ancestry, but because she does not want a particularly nasty stereotype about Latinas to be held against her.

In the Plenty of Fish site, the lowest option actually is "less than a year". I do not know if that is better or worse than to break ut down into "less than six months" and "between six months and a year". I do not consider several (meaning more than 3) dates in the span of 6 months to be tremendously short. In fact, if you make it to the third date, it likely means that there is nothing wrong with you and that there is even something desirable about you. But some people are really judgmental about other people not having been in a relationship before. Hence Suzanne put the "between 6 months and a year" option.

The older you are the more the fact that you haven't been in a long term relationship is worrying. Because it makes you wonder why. Is it because they just had bad luck and never found someone? Is it because they are so busy with other things they didn't have time for it then? Is it because they have unrealistic expectations of relationships? Is it because there is something wrong with them?

All or none of them could be the reason but I admit that I am not looking to be someone's first big relationship at this point in my life. They could be perfectly wonderful, but I don't want to go through those growing pains right now.

I am glad my boyfriend (of almost 13 months now) did not feel that way. He is my first serious relationship. Before meeting him, my longest relationship was pretty similar to Suzanne's case. I am happy that he gave me a chance. And he is happy too.

And how old are you? Like I said - the older you are the more of a difference it makes. What I wouldn't see as a big deal in a 17 year old I would see as a concern in a 35 year old and as a huge red flag in a 65 year old.

And I am glad that you guys are happy. I would not be - which is why hiding things like that doesn't really do much good - do you really want to attract someone with those issues?

I still don't think it matters...it's not something that needs to be disclosed up front.  There are many people that haven't beein in long term relationships (even in their mid thirties and beyond) because of many different aspects...ranging from reasons such as  they chose not to get serious with someone they couldn't see themselves marrying, consentrating on work, to be being really weird.

There are also people who have been in long term relationships and then had them end for a wide range of reasons...some would be concerning/red flags and others would not.

I could not judge someone based on their relationship history alone and I even feel that knowing too much about their relationship history has a danger to bias me in the wrong direction.  I did not disclose my past to my DH (or other dates) fully until we were far enough in the relationship where discussing it made sense...and that was not on the first date, and it was definitely not with everyone.  I wasn't totally secretive about it or anything, I had nothing to hide, and would answer the "how long was your last relationship" question when asked, but it's not something that I feel is totally relevent in getting to know someone or judging whether or not they would be someone I would like to get to know better.

I get that it probably matters to some more than others and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.  If dating history is really important to someone, then saying that upfront is nice...I just don't personally think it's something that is important to everyone across the board (and not to me at all).

rashea

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Re: Small misrepresentations- marketing, or deceit?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2013, 12:29:41 PM »
I have a question. Don't you have the option of skipping any and all of these questions? It does seem a little awkward to put down a misleading answer if you could just skip the question.
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