how to ask for a job - LONG!

[Dr. F.]

Indirectly.

I'm hoping that in making this question moderately anonymous, it won't become completely incomprehensible. If there are questions, please let me know.

I'm currently working in a Temp position, which I can stay in for up to three years. I've been here 2 1/2 thus far. My last current lead petered out 2 weeks ago (see my post in I Need a Hug), so now I'm looking for something at my current place (note: you can stay in any given position for 3 years, but can move outside of the previous Division and the clock re-starts). My current boss and coworkers are being wonderfully supportive and helpful through this, btw.

So, obviously, I'm chatting with people from outside my current division about possibilities. The most obvious possibility for me is working with a person I will call Denise. She manages a group that works in an area I have significant expertise in. I chatted with her supervisor last week, and she encouraged me to talk to Denise. I have worked with Denise on various projects over the last 2 1/2 years perfectly amicably. Rather unfortunately, our last few interactions have been less than stellar. I have been needing a decision from her group regarding putting money from her program towards a client of mine since about December, with increasing urgency. A coworker of mine has also been needing a decision, but with less urgency. About a month ago, my client's situation was becoming severe, so I went to talk to Denise about a workaround.

Unhappily, she got defensive and made comments about "I'm not telling YOUR group how to spend your money!" I tried to reassure her that I wasn't trying to make her commit early, but rather trying to develop a way that everyone could maintain their autonomy while giving my client what he needed. I ended up being able to do that while maintaining Denise's ability to manage her own budget. We were happy, client was elated, I assumed Denise would kick money in if it were available (which was all I was asking for), as we had budgeted for 100% of client's budget.

Yesterday, my coworker who had the other pending request sent an email to Denise pretty much demanding a decision and putting my name on it. Oy. (Coworker isn't evil, just a little clueless.) I immediately shot back that I had spoken with Denise and had developed a workaround for my client's situation and was content to wait for a decision.

Ironically, I was at that point writing an email to try to set up a meeting with Denise to discuss her potentially hiring me. Obviously, I held off.

Just now, Denise emailed back that she was willing to support Coworker's client, but not mine. Now, it's entirely possible that me saying that we had budgeted for my Client and were just asking for help meant that Denise decided Coworker's client needed the help more. (There are all sorts of other factors in play here, as well.) But now I'm all paranoid that this reaction was about me pushing earlier, even though I developed a workaround.

So, given this background, how do I approach Denise about asking for a job in her group? Her boss will take her lead on whether or not I have the qualifications. (I do, and Denise knows it, though that may not be obvious on paper, so I need her goodwill.)

Help?

[Arrynne]

Be direct. Any time I've hinted that I was interested in a job, made subtle inquiries, or tried to let my performance speak for itself, I've been passed over. When I've reached out to folks directly, I've had a lot of success.

Hopefully Denise understands that you've been advocating for your client, not personally attacking her. If you don't reach out to her, you'll never know if you even had a shot at the permanent position. "Hi Denise! I've really enjoyed working with you over the past few years. My contract is ending in a few months and I was wondering if your team had any openings? I think I would be a good fit because of my experience with xyz and my existing relationships within the company."

[Slartibartfast]

It's good to be direct, but is it possible for you to wait a few weeks to let the current office issues cool off and resolve first?

[Outdoor Girl]

I know your timeline is getting short but do you really want to work with/for Denise?  She doesn't sound like someone I'd want to work with.

[JoyinVirginia]

I second being direct.  You can start out with how much you have inspired working on project ABC. Your job lead did not work out, would it be possible for you to join her group to help with project XYZ? The sooner the better. If you are in academia and there are budget issues to deal with, most folks I know don't take stuff like that too personal.

[veronaz]

I know your timeline is getting short but do you really want to work with/for Denise?  She doesn't sound like someone I'd want to work with.

This.

[JoyinVirginia]

I know your timeline is getting short but do you really want to work with/for Denise?  She doesn't sound like someone I'd want to work with.

This.

IF this situation relates to academia/ research like I think, she doesn't seem that bad. All depends on the context.

[Dr. F.]

Indirectly.

I'm hoping that in making this question moderately anonymous, it won't become completely incomprehensible. If there are questions, please let me know.

I'm currently working in a Temp position, which I can stay in for up to three years. I've been here 2 1/2 thus far. My last current lead petered out 2 weeks ago (see my post in I Need a Hug), so now I'm looking for something at my current place (note: you can stay in any given position for 3 years, but can move outside of the previous Division and the clock re-starts). My current boss and coworkers are being wonderfully supportive and helpful through this, btw.

So, obviously, I'm chatting with people from outside my current division about possibilities. The most obvious possibility for me is working with a person I will call Denise. She manages a group that works in an area I have significant expertise in. I chatted with her supervisor last week, and she encouraged me to talk to Denise. I have worked with Denise on various projects over the last 2 1/2 years perfectly amicably. Rather unfortunately, our last few interactions have been less than stellar. I have been needing a decision from her group regarding putting money from her program towards a client of mine since about December, with increasing urgency. A coworker of mine has also been needing a decision, but with less urgency. About a month ago, my client's situation was becoming severe, so I went to talk to Denise about a workaround.

Unhappily, she got defensive and made comments about "I'm not telling YOUR group how to spend your money!" I tried to reassure her that I wasn't trying to make her commit early, but rather trying to develop a way that everyone could maintain their autonomy while giving my client what he needed. I ended up being able to do that while maintaining Denise's ability to manage her own budget. We were happy, client was elated, I assumed Denise would kick money in if it were available (which was all I was asking for), as we had budgeted for 100% of client's budget.

Yesterday, my coworker who had the other pending request sent an email to Denise pretty much demanding a decision and putting my name on it. Oy. (Coworker isn't evil, just a little clueless.) I immediately shot back that I had spoken with Denise and had developed a workaround for my client's situation and was content to wait for a decision.

Ironically, I was at that point writing an email to try to set up a meeting with Denise to discuss her potentially hiring me. Obviously, I held off.

Just now, Denise emailed back that she was willing to support Coworker's client, but not mine. Now, it's entirely possible that me saying that we had budgeted for my Client and were just asking for help meant that Denise decided Coworker's client needed the help more. (There are all sorts of other factors in play here, as well.) But now I'm all paranoid that this reaction was about me pushing earlier, even though I developed a workaround.

So, given this background, how do I approach Denise about asking for a job in her group? Her boss will take her lead on whether or not I have the qualifications. (I do, and Denise knows it, though that may not be obvious on paper, so I need her goodwill.)

Help?

I finally (after trying to let the aforementioned situation die down) asked Denise for a meeting to discuss employment opportunities with her group. She emailed me back saying she would be "very happy!" to talk to me. We've got a meeting set for Wednesday, but I'm feeling moderately optimistic. I hope this works out, as I don't have any other hot options for after Sept., which is beginning to make me kinda crazed.

[Amara]

Yay! Congratulations, Dr. F., on doing this and on her response. I am sending you my best wishes and will keep you in my thoughts.