Author Topic: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.  (Read 16715 times)

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Shea

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2013, 10:42:05 AM »
My last word, since I can see where this is going. Bullying is ganging up on someone in a weaker position. If this girl is excluded at 7 years old, it is not she who is the bully.

I would advise her mom to "take it up he chain" until she got satisfaction.

I understand that this is a subject that hits close to home for you, based on what you've said about your daughter, but I just can't agree that a child who has repeatedly behaved badly towards other children, acting the "mean girl", bullying, whatever you wish to call it, should be included in the troop because she should be "given a chance". Why should the other girls' comfort be sacrificed? Of course no one should give up on this girl, or allow their kids to be mean to her right back, but if she's acted badly towards the other children over and over, I cannot agree with giving her another place (i.e., the Scouts) to bully the kids she already bullies at school. Excluding her is not "bullying" her. It's protecting the other girls.

Incidentally, I've been the bullied child, and it only makes it worse when adults acknowledge the bully's actions, but make excuses and justifications for it ("she must feel so bad about herself", "her home life must be sad", "she just feels excluded, try to be nice to her"). If the girls in the troop are already made uncomfortable or worse by this girl, bringing her into the troop may make it even worse for them, not only making them vulnerable to the bully's unpleasantness in a new venue, but also making them feel like the troop leaders either don't believe them about her bullying ways or that they value the bully over her victims.


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guihong

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM »
Would it be possible to call a meeting of the other parents in the troop, explain the dilemma, and get an idea of how they feel you should proceed?  I also like the idea of a meeting between the girl's parents, her principal, and a neutral person before you let her in the troop.  Does the girl even want to be a Scout, or is her mother pushing her into it?

Has her behavior gotten worse, stayed the same, or improved since last year?

I think it's preposterous that no one can ever be kicked out of Scouts for any reason.  True, it's the very last step, but there must be some guarantee of safety for the other girls (as much as possible).  I just fear that without support from the council or whoever oversees the troops, and no support from the girl's parents, that you're in for a long slog, a mass exodus from your troop, or something disastrous happening. 




AmethystAnne

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2013, 11:07:24 AM »
I was a Scout in Brownies, Juniors, Cadettes, Campus Gold, helped with a Brownie troop during college, was a co-leader, and a leader.

From an adult's point-of-view, I can see the benefit to this girl to be exposed to the good things of being a Girl Scout. But she has to be willing to follow that what is expressed in the Promise and the
Laws. Maybe a very small troop of maybe 3-4 girls could be formed by her mother?

If I were the OP, no way would I allow the girl to join my troop. I liked a PP's suggestion of not taking in more members right now. Then just after Christmas, quietly ask the other 2 girls to join your troop.

What I remember from my years of being in Juniors and Cadettes....there were about 4 girls who talked a lot and didn't pay attention. The leader had to take the time to correct these girls. Several 5-minute periods (out of a 60 minute meeting) of correcting these girls just got to me. I was also blessed <insert eyeroll here> to be in the same class in school with these girls from 5th grade to 12th grade. So my thought each time was, "<sigh> here we go, again" and then I would tune out.





Jaelle

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2013, 11:19:17 AM »
Very torn on this.  :-\

I was in a Scout troop at about this age. It started off well, but when a few new girls joined, they encouraged the others to gang up against quiet, shy little me. (I was a nerd, I was weird, I was creepy, I didn't do things "right," they didn't want to be seen with me, if my old friends were with me, they couldn't be friends with the new girls, etc.) The adults didn't notice, and when I tried to speak up, I was essentially told not to be a complainer and not to "pick on" the new girls.

I quit not long after, to my mom's confusion, and it set a tone with my life that went on for years. I was bullied, but felt like I couldn't say anything. I tried to join a few other things, but these girls (especially one) would join too and I would no longer feel safe (for good reason) and would quietly back away again.

So I know what it's like to be in a group I love and suddenly seeing a tormenter allowed in, knowing what was going to happen next. It ruined many things for me. Sure, I should have developed the tools necessary to simply deal with it ... but that's hard to do when you're 7 and you're being told you're the weird one.

But it also makes me queasy to exclude this girl not knowing what's going on with her (did she start out in the same position?) or how it could help. The "no one kicked out of Scouts" thing makes it an all or nothing proposition and that makes it really tough.

citadelle, I'm curious. You seem to think your daughter has been branded a bully or mean girl, but you of course want her to be included. Do you know why this has happened?
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ShadowLady

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2013, 11:45:09 AM »
It is my opinion, because of the "can't be kicked out for any reason", that the girl should not be included in your troup at this time.  You have no way to punish her for misbehaviour, and so no way to correct her.

Maybe if she can prove that she deserves it by not acting out for a year, you can reconsider her in a year.

citadelle

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2013, 01:32:34 PM »
snipped

citadelle, I'm curious. You seem to think your daughter has been branded a bully or mean girl, but you of course want her to be included. Do you know why this has happened?

This thread explains a little about my daughter:

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=127145.0

It is difficult for me to express how this kind of exclusion has hurt her. It has been devastating, and nothing she has ever done warrants it. She has never been physically aggressive, ever. She's a little immature for her age, quick to anger, and stubborn. She's difficult, I know that. But she's human, and she wants, needs, to have human connections.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2013, 01:39:11 PM »
snipped

citadelle, I'm curious. You seem to think your daughter has been branded a bully or mean girl, but you of course want her to be included. Do you know why this has happened?

This thread explains a little about my daughter:

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=127145.0

It is difficult for me to express how this kind of exclusion has hurt her. It has been devastating, and nothing she has ever done warrants it. She has never been physically aggressive, ever. She's a little immature for her age, quick to anger, and stubborn. She's difficult, I know that. But she's human, and she wants, needs, to have human connections.


Emily doesn't sound anything like the girl in Green Bean's situation!

(((((citadelle & emily)))))

Coley

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2013, 02:04:02 PM »
I posted earlier in this thread, and I want to share my experience with a similar group. I wasn't in GS, but I was in Campfire, which was only for girls at that time. Only four girls from my school were in CF. Most girls were in GS. There weren't enough of us to have our own group, so we were joined with another, larger group from another elem. school. This meant that not only were we "different" at our school because we were in CF and not GS, but we also weren't accepted fully in the CF group from the other school. We were picked on incessantly. I went to CF summer camp, was separated from my four school friends, and experienced some of the meanest mean girl behavior. Yet I remained in CF for 6 years.

At the time, I thought it was mean and awful the way those girls treated us. They made sure we were very aware that we didn't belong. I know exactly how it feels to be excluded.

In hindsight, I think that the experience strengthened my character and helped me become the champion for the underdog. It is that experience that prompts me to advocate for the girl in the OP to be given a chance.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2013, 02:06:45 PM »
I posted earlier in this thread, and I want to share my experience with a similar group. I wasn't in GS, but I was in Campfire, which was only for girls at that time. Only four girls from my school were in CF. Most girls were in GS. There weren't enough of us to have our own group, so we were joined with another, larger group from another elem. school. This meant that not only were we "different" at our school because we were in CF and not GS, but we also weren't accepted fully in the CF group from the other school. We were picked on incessantly. I went to CF summer camp, was separated from my four school friends, and experienced some of the meanest mean girl behavior. Yet I remained in CF for 6 years.

At the time, I thought it was mean and awful the way those girls treated us. They made sure we were very aware that we didn't belong. I know exactly how it feels to be excluded.

In hindsight, I think that the experience strengthened my character and helped me become the champion for the underdog. It is that experience that prompts me to advocate for the girl in the OP to be given a chance.


But, what about the girls already in the troop who will not be strengthened, who will be harmed? What about the troop once it breaks up if the girls leave?

citadelle

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2013, 02:33:41 PM »

Emily doesn't sound anything like the girl in Green Bean's situation!

(((((citadelle & emily)))))

Thank you for the hugs for us. They are appreciated.

I respectfully suggest that the reason you think Em doesn't sound like the girl in the OP is because you are hearing our situation described from Emily's point of view. It is very likely that the mom of a girl in Em's class would just call her mean.

kudeebee

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2013, 02:34:08 PM »
OP--coming at this from years of experience as a teacher, GS leader, CS den leader.

I would not accept any new girls into your troop at this time.  Think about it over the summer, have some long talks with your co-leader about it.  If you don't accept any girls, then you cannot be accused of passing this one girl by in favor of others.  You may find that you like a smaller troop and that the dynamics of the smaller troop work better for you.

You have a great troop dynamic at this time.  Bringing in a girl who is known to have problems, and especially one who locked your 2.5 year old in a shower in your home (did she have any regrets???), is not something you do lightly or with the guise that "we will let her join and she will she our positive role models and things will magically change."  It just doesn't work that way.

As pps have said, you will have her for one hour a week, once a week or every other week depending on when you meet.  You will not be working with her one on one, you will be working with many girls.  When she misbehaves, how will you handle it?  will she accept the redirection or will she cause more problems?  Will mom be willing to come and sit with her every week?  Is co-leader (since she wants to have her join the troop) willing to be "in-charge" of her during the troop meetings/outings/etc and especially when she misbehaves, sitting with her and missing out on the fun/activities the other girls are doing?  I could be wrong, but co-leader's thoughts may change if you present it to her as "you will need to be in charge of her".

Alsom things will not magically change between her and the other girls just because this is scouts and not school.  They are in school together, they know her and how she treats them and others. It doesn't end or go away when the bell rings and school is over for the day!

It might be best for this girl to find another activity to join, one that is away from school and those who know her in order to give her a fresh start.  That might help her and in a couple of years, maybe your gs troop will be a good fit for her.

Are you willing to have your troop possibly fall apart because of this one girl?  Because if she joins and continues her behaviors, the other girls may decide girl scouts isn't any fun anymore and drop out.  Or the night you meet "won't work" and other mothers will form their own troop to meet this need.  Then where will you be?

It is sad to think that this even has to be discussed, but it does.  This girl needs help and that help is not going to be given/received in a one hour troop meeting every week/every other week.  i would hope that the school and the counselor are working with her.


citadelle--quote from you

It is difficult for me to express how this kind of exclusion has hurt her. It has been devastating, and nothing she has ever done warrants it. She has never been physically aggressive, ever. She's a little immature for her age, quick to anger, and stubborn. She's difficult, I know that. But she's human, and she wants, needs, to have human connections.

I am sorry your dd is struggling so much.  However, she is doing things that alienate her from others; she is not being physical nor is she being a bully.  But she is doing some things that are cutting her off from the other girls--immature (comments and behaviors, I would assume), being stubborn, getting angry.  This could easily make others not want to be around her.  I know that you are struggling with helping her as she doesn't want to hear it from you/have you help her.
It can be hard as a parent to watch this and not be able to help. Is your dd getting any kind of help/therapy to deal with the anger and being stubborn?  Sometimes hearing it from an outside source is best and can help her recognize triggers, learn how to deal with them, etc. 

I know our school district runs a "help" clinic that is offered to parents with children who are struggling with these same types of issues.  does your district offer anything like this?  If not, I would definitely look  into doing it on your own.  You need to get her help now before it becomes worse.  Just moving her to another school district won't magically change it unless she gets help with these behaviors and learning how to control them.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 02:43:14 PM by kudeebee »

LeveeWoman

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2013, 02:37:32 PM »

Emily doesn't sound anything like the girl in Green Bean's situation!

(((((citadelle & emily)))))

Thank you for the hugs for us. They are appreciated.

I respectfully suggest that the reason you think Em doesn't sound like the girl in the OP is because you are hearing our situation described from Emily's point of view. It is very likely that the mom of a girl in Em's class would just call her mean.

Did you catch Green Bean's post about the girl locking her toddler in the shower in the basement?

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2013, 02:46:38 PM »

Emily doesn't sound anything like the girl in Green Bean's situation!

(((((citadelle & emily)))))

Thank you for the hugs for us. They are appreciated.

I respectfully suggest that the reason you think Em doesn't sound like the girl in the OP is because you are hearing our situation described from Emily's point of view. It is very likely that the mom of a girl in Em's class would just call her mean.

Did you catch Green Bean's post about the girl locking her toddler in the shower in the basement?

Green Bean said not door was "shut" not "locked".

LeveeWoman

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2013, 02:55:18 PM »

Emily doesn't sound anything like the girl in Green Bean's situation!

(((((citadelle & emily)))))

Thank you for the hugs for us. They are appreciated.

I respectfully suggest that the reason you think Em doesn't sound like the girl in the OP is because you are hearing our situation described from Emily's point of view. It is very likely that the mom of a girl in Em's class would just call her mean.

Did you catch Green Bean's post about the girl locking her toddler in the shower in the basement?

Green Bean said not door was "shut" not "locked".

There's no difference to a  toddler who presumbly was not tall enough to reach the handle or strong enough to open it or smart enough to even figure out what to do.

ClaireC79

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2013, 02:55:32 PM »
and no mention of the time scale - 'mean girl shut the door after toddler wanders into the shower after bugging older girls who were annoyed by her and she wouldn't listen when they told her to go away, toddler cried but immediately let out by her sister who was standing there and got there before mean girl did' or 'mean girl shut the door after toddler went into shower and watched toddler get hysterical in the 20 minutes before older sister found her and let her out' or 'mean girl picked toddler up, put her in the shower and held door shut, laughing as elder sister tried toset her sister free'
Any of those three scenarios would be covered by the explanation by the OP, and the first one I wouldn't count as being that bad or a reason to denote her as mean girl, the other two I'd be very against my older child being in contact with her and wouldn't have the mean girl in my house