Author Topic: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.  (Read 16014 times)

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snowdragon

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2013, 03:33:07 PM »
and no mention of the time scale - 'mean girl shut the door after toddler wanders into the shower after bugging older girls who were annoyed by her and she wouldn't listen when they told her to go away, toddler cried but immediately let out by her sister who was standing there and got there before mean girl did' or 'mean girl shut the door after toddler went into shower and watched toddler get hysterical in the 20 minutes before older sister found her and let her out' or 'mean girl picked toddler up, put her in the shower and held door shut, laughing as elder sister tried toset her sister free'
Any of those three scenarios would be covered by the explanation by the OP, and the first one I wouldn't count as being that bad or a reason to denote her as mean girl, the other two I'd be very against my older child being in contact with her and wouldn't have the mean girl in my house


To me which scenario it was does not matter, she meant to upset the toddler , that means the toddler (and any much younger child) is not safe around her. This is not someone I'd want to take responsibility for,  and if I had a child in that troop and this girl joined, my kid would be in a new troop.

gramma dishes

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2013, 04:45:45 PM »


If the bully truly wishes to become a GS, her mother can start a troop and recruit girls to join (like I did).  GSUSA is always looking for more troop leaders and she would be welcome with open arms.  She is not prevented from joining GS.

This is an excellent point.  There are often more than one troop of girls within the same age bracket in even fairly small communities.  I like this idea!!  That way no one could say that the girl is being left out of scouting, just that there wasn't room for her (at the time) in that one existing troop.

gramma dishes

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2013, 04:57:59 PM »
...   Would it be possible to call a meeting of the other parents in the troop, explain the dilemma, and get an idea of how they feel you should proceed?  I also like the idea of a meeting between the girl's parents, her principal, and a neutral person before you let her in the troop.  ...

Um ... I don't think the other parents should be brought into this AT ALL.  That comes scarily close to spreading gossip about this one child and allowing outsiders to be involved in a decision that isn't theirs to make. 

Even the suggestion for a meeting between the girl's parents and principal and a "neutral" person (whatever that might be in this case) would be in all likelihood against the law.  The GS troop is not directly associated with the school or any school function and I can't imagine that anyone from the school (principal, teacher, school psychologist, etc.) would be legally permitted to participate in such a meeting even if they wanted to. 

guihong

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2013, 05:30:57 PM »
...   Would it be possible to call a meeting of the other parents in the troop, explain the dilemma, and get an idea of how they feel you should proceed?  I also like the idea of a meeting between the girl's parents, her principal, and a neutral person before you let her in the troop.  ...

Um ... I don't think the other parents should be brought into this AT ALL.  That comes scarily close to spreading gossip about this one child and allowing outsiders to be involved in a decision that isn't theirs to make. 

Even the suggestion for a meeting between the girl's parents and principal and a "neutral" person (whatever that might be in this case) would be in all likelihood against the law.  The GS troop is not directly associated with the school or any school function and I can't imagine that anyone from the school (principal, teacher, school psychologist, etc.) would be legally permitted to participate in such a meeting even if they wanted to.

You're right.  Disregard-bad idea. 

I like the idea of Mom making a troop more and more, if she had the follow-through.  It's still troubling though, how little support the troop leaders seem to get from council.



sammycat

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2013, 06:53:28 PM »
To me which scenario it was does not matter, she meant to upset the toddler , that means the toddler (and any much younger child) is not safe around her. This is not someone I'd want to take responsibility for,  and if I had a child in that troop and this girl joined, my kid would be in a new troop.

Ditto.

OT: In the US, are scout troops formed of children only from the same school and kept relatively small in number? Here in Australia, most suburbs have a designated scout den and children from anywhere are welcome to join. Most troops I know have between 20-30 kids in them. At one stage, my local group had to offer a second night as they had about 40 children on the books. I've never heard of anyone (here) holding a scout meeting in their own home.

Slartibartfast

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2013, 07:41:11 PM »
To me which scenario it was does not matter, she meant to upset the toddler , that means the toddler (and any much younger child) is not safe around her. This is not someone I'd want to take responsibility for,  and if I had a child in that troop and this girl joined, my kid would be in a new troop.

Ditto.

OT: In the US, are scout troops formed of children only from the same school and kept relatively small in number? Here in Australia, most suburbs have a designated scout den and children from anywhere are welcome to join. Most troops I know have between 20-30 kids in them. At one stage, my local group had to offer a second night as they had about 40 children on the books. I've never heard of anyone (here) holding a scout meeting in their own home.

Depends on where you live.  When I was a girl, our troop was made up of the girls from my grade at my school, and we met at after school in the gym.  My daisy troop now is made up girls from several different schools and we meet at a church on Saturday mornings. 

dietcokeofevil

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2013, 08:13:44 PM »
To me which scenario it was does not matter, she meant to upset the toddler , that means the toddler (and any much younger child) is not safe around her. This is not someone I'd want to take responsibility for,  and if I had a child in that troop and this girl joined, my kid would be in a new troop.

Ditto.

OT: In the US, are scout troops formed of children only from the same school and kept relatively small in number? Here in Australia, most suburbs have a designated scout den and children from anywhere are welcome to join. Most troops I know have between 20-30 kids in them. At one stage, my local group had to offer a second night as they had about 40 children on the books. I've never heard of anyone (here) holding a scout meeting in their own home.

Depends on where you live.  When I was a girl, our troop was made up of the girls from my grade at my school, and we met at after school in the gym.  My daisy troop now is made up girls from several different schools and we meet at a church on Saturday mornings.

My troop started off as 1st grade daisies with 7 girls, went up to 16 Brownies by 3rd grade, had 11 girls in 5th grade Juniors, and I have 9 girls bridging to cadettes.  Of those 9, 2 of them joined this year.    The only troops I know that hold meetings at the schools are for private schools.  The public schools require a payment of $10/girl (for insurance purposes).  However there's lots of public facilities that we can get for free.  I think it would be very difficult to have a meaningful discussion with 40 girls...that's more kids than would be in their classroom.  When we had 16 girls, it would sometimes be difficult to get all the girls through their badge requirements in the meeting time.


dietcokeofevil

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2013, 08:21:08 PM »
My troop is currently 5th grade Juniors, but we will be bridging to Cadettes next week.  There was another troop of 5th grade girls from our elementary school, that is disbanding since the leaders daughters do not want to continue.   My co-leader and I discussed offering the other girls in that troop the chance to join ours if they wished to continue, but ultimately decided against it because one of the girls was a bully.   Several girls within my troop had run-ins with the girl throughout 1-4th grade.  I know the girl and I know her mother, and while I had never had any issues with that girl myself, I did not feel it was fair to my existing scouts.


Coruscation

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2013, 08:52:53 PM »
  I think it would be very difficult to have a meaningful discussion with 40 girls...that's more kids than would be in their classroom.  When we had 16 girls, it would sometimes be difficult to get all the girls through their badge requirements in the meeting time.

Thread jack:

Scouts Australia is co-educational and a minimum of two leaders are required at all meetings. The recommended leader to child ratio varies depending on the activity and the age of the child (I lead Scouts not Cubs so I don't know what it is for Cubs) but there would probably be four or five for that many children. My husband and I are co-leaders so we often break up our group of eighteen into the three patrols and rotate the patrols through the lessons over three weeks. Even if they are all doing the same activity, they are divided into three.

dietcokeofevil

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2013, 09:09:35 PM »
  I think it would be very difficult to have a meaningful discussion with 40 girls...that's more kids than would be in their classroom.  When we had 16 girls, it would sometimes be difficult to get all the girls through their badge requirements in the meeting time.

Thread jack:

Scouts Australia is co-educational and a minimum of two leaders are required at all meetings. The recommended leader to child ratio varies depending on the activity and the age of the child (I lead Scouts not Cubs so I don't know what it is for Cubs) but there would probably be four or five for that many children. My husband and I are co-leaders so we often break up our group of eighteen into the three patrols and rotate the patrols through the lessons over three weeks. Even if they are all doing the same activity, they are divided into three.

In the US you wouldn't be able to lead with your spouse.  It has to be two unrelated adults.

magiccat26

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #85 on: May 26, 2013, 09:20:57 PM »
It sounds like Australia is run similar to Boy Scouts.  In the US, it's girls only and it is rare to have a multi age/multi grade troop.  I do know a few leaders who have done it and it is run similar to how you described.

For the majority, it is one grade per troop.  Troops are formed based on geographical boundaries (usually within a school district) that are part of a larger Service Unit that is part of a larger council.  We have girls from only one school because my tiny town only has one school per group.  (One Elementary k-3, one intermediate 4-6, one junior high 7-9, and one high school 10-12.). Our SU actually encompasses all of the small towns (like ours) and a small part of the bigger city close by.  I currently have the only 4th grade Junior troop in town.  But, I know there are enough other girls interested to form a second troop for our grade level, the problem is NONE of those parents are willing to become a troop leader.  That's part of the problem.  They want the benefits of scouts for their child, but they are unwilling to do the work.  Leading a troop is work.  I work full-time outside the home, my daughter is in other activities and ye, I manage to lead a troop too.

A PP is correct, leader and co-leader MUST be unrelated adults.  So, you must have two unrelated adults to run a troop...for the girls safety.  And all adults involved must go thru a complete background check every two years.
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Garden Goblin

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #86 on: May 26, 2013, 09:24:50 PM »
I think it's preposterous that no one can ever be kicked out of Scouts for any reason.  True, it's the very last step, but there must be some guarantee of safety for the other girls (as much as possible).  I just fear that without support from the council or whoever oversees the troops, and no support from the girl's parents, that you're in for a long slog, a mass exodus from your troop, or something disastrous happening.

In a similar situation, our solution was relatively simple.

We did not kick her out.  The group broke up and a new group was formed immediately after that just happened to have the same leaders and members minus this one particular spoiled bully.  Pure coincidence.

AngelBarchild

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #87 on: May 26, 2013, 10:43:44 PM »
I'm a little late to the party but I feel I need to make a couple of points.

To everyone saying that it's not a scout leader's responsibility to help this child, this is simply not true. It is exactly what a scout leader is supposed to do. The Girl scout mission statement "Girl Scouting builds girls of courage, confidence, and character, who make the world a better place." http://www.girlscouts.org/who_we_are/facts/  It's not about selling cookies, playing games, or socializing, it's about teaching little girls, so they grow up to be good people. This is not a birthday party where you only have to invite the kids you like, it is an organization designed to teach. Heck one of it's guiding principals is inclusiveness. If anything this girl needs scouts more than the others.

You can wring the rules this way and that, but in doing so you are subverting the very purpose of Scouting.

Rohanna

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #88 on: May 26, 2013, 10:53:03 PM »
Seeing adults so willing to throw a 7 year old away as lost or unsaveable makes my heart ache for the weird, angry little kid I was too.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 09:09:32 PM by Rohanna »
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kareng57

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Re: Little girl drama and Girl Scouts.
« Reply #89 on: May 26, 2013, 10:59:57 PM »
I was very unpopular as a child- I grew up socially isolated with a mentally abusive parent. I was "weird", dressed strangely, and didnt' know how to interact with other kids well. Kids didn't like me, made up excuses to adults about things I'd done (most of them untrue) to get me into trouble so they wouldn't have to hang out with me.

I am SO grateful that I was able to join an organization that didn't discriminate about who they let in (the school insisted and my one parent put their foot down that I was allowed to join to the other- a rare and bright event in my childhood).

It was the making of me, to be honest- having other female adults to guide me on grooming, getting to sleep over on camp-outs, being coached on proper behaviour- finally eventually making friends again (something I hadn't done since I was a small child, before mental illness intruded on my family) - it was fantastic.

Seeing adults so willing to throw a 7 year old away as lost or unsaveable makes my heart ache for the weird, angry little kid I was too.


I too agree. I didn't have daughters, but my late Dh and my two sons were heavily involved in Scouts.

My Dh felt very rewarded when kids who were considered very marginal blossomed after their involvement.  Of course he was not a miracle-worker, and some marginal boys ended up leaving after a short time.  But for the ones that no one gave up on - it was incredible.