Author Topic: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.  (Read 7367 times)

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amylouky

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2013, 11:42:44 AM »
Things like this have been discussed many times.  It is NOT okay to trick people with food to which they have an allergy or aversion. 

It's one thing to reveal that the delicious chocolate cake someone just enjoyed contains sauerkraut or green tomatoes.  It's quite another to present brains under the guise of eggs.  If anyone should know what an adult child will and will not eat, it should be that person's mother.

If that trick were pulled on me, I would  let my mother know flat out that this sort of trickery is not acceptable.  Respect for elders is  all well and good.  Trickery like this on the part of someone deserves to be  addressed.
I don't see any difference between substituting sauerkraut and brains. Both are lies and trickery.

I can tell you that it did not go over well at my workplace a few months ago when at a potluck a
coworker substituted sugar beets for sugar in brownies. He did not tell anyone until everyone had taken a bite and then was quite pleased with his "surprise." NO one else was pleased because (1) no one liked them and (2) no one likes to be tricked when it comes to food. It's not funny. Everyone
 was angry and no one will eat the food he brings in any more.

I do see a difference but it depends on the audience.

Although the intention may have been good, the substitution of brains for eggs was quite a mean trick intended to deceive. The addition of sauerkraut to a chocolate cake or black beans to brownies is intended to be an amusing surprise that all involved would enjoy once the secret is learned. 

Halfway between these extremes, I wonder about all the recent articles urging parents to sneak vegetables into foods their children like to eat.  Is this defensible or not?

Unexpected sauerkraut would most definitely not be an amusing surprise for me, as sauerkraut for some reason violently disagrees with my digestive system. It's usually pretty easy to spot, and if there's a dish that looks like it would or traditionally contains sauerkraut, then I'll ask, as it's my responsibility to look out for my own food issues.
I would never think to ask about sauerkraut in a cake though, so yeah, I'd be pretty put out if someone snuck it in and didn't mention it.

Luci

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2013, 11:49:10 AM »
I don't know how many pieces of chocolate dessert I've wasted because someone put in cherry flavoring or coffee as a 'pleasant surprise' without telling me, or because someone unknowingly used cheap chocolate with coconut oil. I am not allergic, but I can taste all of those things and will not waste my calorie allowance eating something I don't like to be polite.

Judah

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2013, 11:53:07 AM »
OP, I honestly don't understand why you *wouldn't* give your mother a piece of your mind. You are allowed to be angry, and it's not rude to be angry. It's justifiable to be angry when someone lies and tricks us. Perhaps if your mother sees your anger she'll start treating you with more respect.
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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 01:49:04 PM »
I don't know how many pieces of chocolate dessert I've wasted because someone put in cherry flavoring or coffee as a 'pleasant surprise' without telling me, or because someone unknowingly used cheap chocolate with coconut oil. I am not allergic, but I can taste all of those things and will not waste my calorie allowance eating something I don't like to be polite.

I honestly do not get the apparent "fun surprise" factor of recipes that PPs are describing. In my personal experience, anyone who puts a substitution or special flavoring in a standard recipe can't wait to tell everyone because they think it is so cool. I do this myself - I found a great recipe for Whole Wheat Zucchini Brownies: obviously the change is right in the title, and I will not be withholding the info. I will be saying things like "the zucchini in it makes them super moist and the texture is great even though they are whole wheat."  ;D ::)
Likewise, I don't understand why someone would not introduce their dessert as "Chocolate Cherry Brownies" or "Mocha Brownies" etc. or brag about how the trick is to put a little coffee in it to make them taste richer.
Yes you shouldn't have to give a recipe ingredient run down for anything and everything, but given all the allergies and diets/dietary restrictions one runs into these days I'm surprised it hasn't become second nature for some. Of course, the guinea pig, erm I mean person eating is free to ask "so did you use canola oil or...?" and whatnot if they are concerned about what exactly they are eating. Now if the baker being questioned lied or evaded and then, after the person took a bite, crowed "Ha! I actually used coconut oil you can't even tell can you?" or something like that then they would be out of line.

Nya I am sorry your mother tricked you. You have a right to transparency when it comes to food ingredients, and you have a right to not eat something you don't want to. I find it sad that your mom couldn't have just said "I know you don't usually like brains but I fixed them the way I had them growing up - would you like to try just a bite?" And maybe you could have humored her, or maybe you would still politely decline and either way she would have the emotional maturity to not take the rejection of her childhood food personally and she would respect that you are entitled to like or dislike whatever you want and it has nothing to do with her. Ah well, we can dream of eHeaven can't we?  ;)
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Coley

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2013, 03:39:39 PM »
Just to clarify about the black bean brownies, I'm not trying to be amusing when I bake them, and I'm not walking into a potluck and surprising people. A number of black bean brownie recipes are available out there. The beans in the recipe I use offset some of the fat found in a typical brownie recipe and add some fiber. Some black bean brownie recipes are vegan and gluten free. The beans serve a purpose in the recipe. It's not the same as adding an unusual ingredient just for the sake of adding it. While the use of black beans as a substitute for oil or butter may be unusual, it follows the logic of swapping applesauce for butter or eggs.

Some people may be attracted to the idea of black bean brownies because of their dietary restrictions.

Cami

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2013, 04:22:42 PM »
Things like this have been discussed many times.  It is NOT okay to trick people with food to which they have an allergy or aversion. 

It's one thing to reveal that the delicious chocolate cake someone just enjoyed contains sauerkraut or green tomatoes.  It's quite another to present brains under the guise of eggs.  If anyone should know what an adult child will and will not eat, it should be that person's mother.

If that trick were pulled on me, I would  let my mother know flat out that this sort of trickery is not acceptable.  Respect for elders is  all well and good.  Trickery like this on the part of someone deserves to be  addressed.
I don't see any difference between substituting sauerkraut and brains. Both are lies and trickery.

I can tell you that it did not go over well at my workplace a few months ago when at a potluck a
coworker substituted sugar beets for sugar in brownies. He did not tell anyone until everyone had taken a bite and then was quite pleased with his "surprise." NO one else was pleased because (1) no one liked them and (2) no one likes to be tricked when it comes to food. It's not funny. Everyone
 was angry and no one will eat the food he brings in any more.

I do see a difference but it depends on the audience.

Although the intention may have been good, the substitution of brains for eggs was quite a mean trick intended to deceive.  The addition of sauerkraut to a chocolate cake or black beans to brownies is intended to be an amusing surprise that all involved would enjoy once the secret is learned. 

Halfway between these extremes, I wonder about all the recent articles urging parents to sneak vegetables into foods their children like to eat.  Is this defensible or not?
I'm not quite sure why there is an insistence that substituting food is amusing. I think several of us have made it clear that those substitutions are not amusing, especially if the substitution can trigger a negative reaction. In my case, for example, if you added berries to a food item and I did not know and ate a bite, within 10 minutes, I'd be having a migraine. I can assure you that I would not find it to be an "amusing surprise" and not just the pain of a migraine but the ramifications (unable to work, drive, read. Vomiting, etc.)  I simply do not understand why someone would be willing to take a chance with someone else's health and well-being just to have the "fun" of foisting a surprise on others.

amylouky

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2013, 04:24:34 PM »
Just to clarify about the black bean brownies, I'm not trying to be amusing when I bake them, and I'm not walking into a potluck and surprising people. A number of black bean brownie recipes are available out there. The beans in the recipe I use offset some of the fat found in a typical brownie recipe and add some fiber. Some black bean brownie recipes are vegan and gluten free. The beans serve a purpose in the recipe. It's not the same as adding an unusual ingredient just for the sake of adding it. While the use of black beans as a substitute for oil or butter may be unusual, it follows the logic of swapping applesauce for butter or eggs.

Some people may be attracted to the idea of black bean brownies because of their dietary restrictions.

I've had brownies made with black beans that were very good.
While I agree that it is far from pretending brains are eggs, which is just nasty, I still think you should tell the people eating them, because black beans are not a usual or expected ingredient in brownies. I think the applesauce swap is pretty well known, so it may occur to someone eating cake/brownies to ask if there is applesauce in them if they are sensitive to it, but I don't know that anyone would think to ask if there are black beans.

Coley

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2013, 05:39:35 PM »
Just to clarify about the black bean brownies, I'm not trying to be amusing when I bake them, and I'm not walking into a potluck and surprising people. A number of black bean brownie recipes are available out there. The beans in the recipe I use offset some of the fat found in a typical brownie recipe and add some fiber. Some black bean brownie recipes are vegan and gluten free. The beans serve a purpose in the recipe. It's not the same as adding an unusual ingredient just for the sake of adding it. While the use of black beans as a substitute for oil or butter may be unusual, it follows the logic of swapping applesauce for butter or eggs.

Some people may be attracted to the idea of black bean brownies because of their dietary restrictions.

I've had brownies made with black beans that were very good.
While I agree that it is far from pretending brains are eggs, which is just nasty, I still think you should tell the people eating them, because black beans are not a usual or expected ingredient in brownies. I think the applesauce swap is pretty well known, so it may occur to someone eating cake/brownies to ask if there is applesauce in them if they are sensitive to it, but I don't know that anyone would think to ask if there are black beans.

I don't understand the assumption that I'm not telling people about the beans. In my PP on this topic, I said no one would know unless I told them. That doesn't mean I'm not telling them. My niece has a peanut allergy. I know the drill.

White Lotus

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2013, 06:22:58 PM »
People sometimes try to sneak meat and meat products into vegetarians by claiming a recipe is veg when it contains (usually) chicken, fish or meat stock or lard.  It is done with malice aforethought, because they lie when you ask, and it will make a long-term veg very sick.  I can catch it about 90% of the time by taste before it does any harm.  Either way, you lie about what you serve me and you are no friend of mine and if it is a restaurant, I will never eat there again, and will tell everyone I know that the kitchen cannot be trusted.  NyaCha's mother was entirely wrong to misrepresent the food.  NyaCha has every right to be angry.  I am not sure there is a polite way to handle it as I find the offense so egregious.  If, say, my ILs tried it (never have, never would, but...) I would never eat food they prepared again, unless it was obviously meat-free, like a green salad.  Carrot sticks.  Or I brought it.

KB

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2013, 07:14:21 PM »
Just to clarify about the black bean brownies, I'm not trying to be amusing when I bake them, and I'm not walking into a potluck and surprising people. A number of black bean brownie recipes are available out there. The beans in the recipe I use offset some of the fat found in a typical brownie recipe and add some fiber. Some black bean brownie recipes are vegan and gluten free. The beans serve a purpose in the recipe. It's not the same as adding an unusual ingredient just for the sake of adding it. While the use of black beans as a substitute for oil or butter may be unusual, it follows the logic of swapping applesauce for butter or eggs.

Some people may be attracted to the idea of black bean brownies because of their dietary restrictions.

I've had brownies made with black beans that were very good.
While I agree that it is far from pretending brains are eggs, which is just nasty, I still think you should tell the people eating them, because black beans are not a usual or expected ingredient in brownies. I think the applesauce swap is pretty well known, so it may occur to someone eating cake/brownies to ask if there is applesauce in them if they are sensitive to it, but I don't know that anyone would think to ask if there are black beans.

I don't understand the assumption that I'm not telling people about the beans. In my PP on this topic, I said no one would know unless I told them. That doesn't mean I'm not telling them. My niece has a peanut allergy. I know the drill.

This is thread is about people tricking others with food substitutions, so I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume that you were also not saying anything about your 'secret ingredients'.

GreenEyedHawk

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2013, 07:44:44 PM »
NyaChan, what a dirty trick!  She knew you wouldn't eat it and lied to you in order to get you to do so.  You have every right to be angry.  If I were told after eating something that it was brains (sorry, I know there are cultures that eat them and people that like them, but I'm not either of those things) I'd probably have puked.  Blechh.
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Erich L-ster

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2013, 08:14:18 PM »
I wouldn't eat anything cooked by her for a very long time, if ever again. If time and money constraints meant that relegated me to sandwiches, toast and spaghetti then so be it.

Coley

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2013, 08:22:41 PM »
Just to clarify about the black bean brownies, I'm not trying to be amusing when I bake them, and I'm not walking into a potluck and surprising people. A number of black bean brownie recipes are available out there. The beans in the recipe I use offset some of the fat found in a typical brownie recipe and add some fiber. Some black bean brownie recipes are vegan and gluten free. The beans serve a purpose in the recipe. It's not the same as adding an unusual ingredient just for the sake of adding it. While the use of black beans as a substitute for oil or butter may be unusual, it follows the logic of swapping applesauce for butter or eggs.

Some people may be attracted to the idea of black bean brownies because of their dietary restrictions.

I've had brownies made with black beans that were very good.
While I agree that it is far from pretending brains are eggs, which is just nasty, I still think you should tell the people eating them, because black beans are not a usual or expected ingredient in brownies. I think the applesauce swap is pretty well known, so it may occur to someone eating cake/brownies to ask if there is applesauce in them if they are sensitive to it, but I don't know that anyone would think to ask if there are black beans.

I don't understand the assumption that I'm not telling people about the beans. In my PP on this topic, I said no one would know unless I told them. That doesn't mean I'm not telling them. My niece has a peanut allergy. I know the drill.

This is thread is about people tricking others with food substitutions, so I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume that you were also not saying anything about your 'secret ingredients'.

I understand the point of the thread. My point in my first post was that there is a difference between tricking people by presenting a food as if it were something else (eggs vs. brains) and including an unexpected ingredient in a recipe for a common dish, such as brownies. It's in the intent. I have no intent to deceive nor do I try to deceive. The OP's mother intended to deceive, as have some others in examples in PPs. I have made the attempt to clarify twice, and that's where I will leave it.

FWIW, just a couple of weeks ago I volunteered to provide several vegetarian dishes at a barbecue because one of the guests doesn't eat meat. I did this because the organizer of the barbecue once served a "vegetarian" dish to this guest that contained chicken broth. The guest was uncertain about the organizer's understanding of vegetarian food after that and wasn't sure if she would be able to eat at the barbecue.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2013, 11:22:42 PM »
 
I think it was clear to all involved that you thought it was eggs and wouldn't have eaten it if you thought it was brains.  I'd probably go down to dinner, go to the kitchen and make something I wanted to eat.  Your mother will no doubt ask why you are not eating the dinner she cooked and the answer is plain; you don't trust her to prepare food and tell you what it is.  It seems such a clear violation, the solution is to cook for yourself in the future.

I completely agree with this. Or better yet, move you as soon as you can.

Oh, and when your mum asked "Are you happy with yourself?" I would have replied "I'm perfectly happy with myself. However, I am very unhappy with YOU!"

Slartibartfast

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Re: Trying not to give mom a piece of my mind.
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2013, 12:17:27 AM »
DH was baffled why I thought he needed to tell everyone at his work's chili cook-off what exactly what was in his chili.  Because it was very good, and he managed to make it taste like normal chili, and who would really care that it had cocoa powder and fish oil among the ingredients?  He was concerned that people would choose not to try it based on those ingredients alone.

I finally convinced him to put a "contains seafood ingredients" label on it so people could ask if they might be allergic to the fish oil.  I never did find out how popular it was (other than that he didn't win the cook-off).  And I wasn't willing to try it, either - he made it WAY spicier than I can tolerate - so I don't know whether it really did taste like normal chili or whether that was just pride and wishful thinking  :-\