Author Topic: Inviting half of a social "unit," when their "other half" is rude/disrespectful  (Read 14497 times)

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MineralDiva

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Thanks, bah.  Me too.  But other than that, I'm staying the E-Hell out of it.  Very sad indeed.

MineralDiva

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... I crashed the reception with a gift anyway.


To be honest, I'm concerned that this might be something eldest son and his girlfriend would do.  She IS that spiteful - and they would have the full backing of the ex-husband, should such a stand be taken.  If so, it's not going to be pretty.  Good GAWD!  What have I agreed to get myself into?  Hopefully that won't be the way it happens, and all will be well...or at least as well as it can be.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 04:06:27 PM by MineralDiva »

Allyson

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I think part of the problem is, from the son's perspective, things are very different. If it were he or his partner posting, "My mother invited me but not my girlfriend to her wedding, because she doesn't like her and says she's disrespectful" I think most of us would totally support the son being incensed and not going. There was a thread awhile back where someone didn't invite the partner and the general advice was to not go.

Yes, there was bad behavior, but I doubt the son and partner see it that way, so to *them*, there's not a good reason not to invite the partner. I'm sure that in many threads here, where someone slights their child's spouse, the parent feels that they have 'good reason'. So I think it's unfortunate, but it doesn't really matter what happened previously except insofar as deciding whether or not it's worth inviting them both, or neither. Regardless of how 'right' your sister is and 'wrong' son's partner is, it won't change the son's mind. So, your sister will be completely in the right--and possibly cut off from her son. Now, in some cases that is *absolutely* the right choice! If partner is truly toxic, sucking it up and having her along may genuinely not be worth it at all.

I guess I'm thinking back to lots of threads here about people cutting off their parents/inlaws, and how the inlaws likely would have posted a totally different version.

dawbs

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I think part of the problem is, from the son's perspective, things are very different. If it were he or his partner posting, "My mother invited me but not my girlfriend to her wedding, because she doesn't like her and says she's disrespectful" I think most of us would totally support the son being incensed and not going. There was a thread awhile back where someone didn't invite the partner and the general advice was to not go.*snip*

Yep.
Even if the son planned NOT to continue the relationship with her, this GF is still the mother of his child.  It would be foolish and bad form for him to antagonize her in favor of his mom.

(and it seems that, regardless, the family may have the job of 'squelching' any issues--so really she's put you in the same situation regardless)

Lynn2000

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I think WillyNilly and bah12 have a good point. I don't think anyone is obligated to have someone who has been rude and disrespectful to them at their event.

However, except in a few extreme cases, the "good" half of the couple really isn't that good, because they are letting the "bad" half be rude and disrespectful to their family and friends. They are choosing to stay with this person and if they're doing anything at all to change their behavior behind the scenes, it doesn't seem to be working. Obviously the relationship can be complex and no one outside it can understand all the nuances; but the practical result is, if you link yourself to a rude, boorish person, people may choose to not invite you as a couple, rather than risk you bringing the boor along.

I remember a few threads along these lines--I love my brother, but I can't stand his wife, what can I do? And really, I think all you can do according to etiquette, is put up with both, or put up with neither--especially in the case of a family wedding. I think it is totally within etiquette for the OP's sister to NOT invite the DIL to her wedding. But, this also means she should not have invited her son.

But even if she'd done it "correctly"--not inviting either--there was probably going to be fallout. And I do think that's really sad, especially when there's a grandchild involved who is probably too young to even be aware of what's going on. It's really a decision that each person would have to make for themselves, weighing the consequences of either letting the troublemaker in, or risk not seeing relatives in the future. But I think the social unit does have to be invited, or not, together--not as some obscure etiquette rule, but because in a case like this, they both really do bear some responsibility for how the other one has acted.
~Lynn2000

Sharnita

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I also think that with the grandchild, when one parent isn't involved, there will eventually be questions - "Why doesn't grandma invite mommy?"  I am also a bit doubtful that the Grandma in this case would refrain from saying anything negative about "mommy" or giving off "negative vibes" about her in the presence of the child so it gets a bit tricky because the mom could understandably be concerned that her child is being sent overt or covert messages that she is bad.

TurtleDove

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I am assuming that the sons are adults.  In my experience, kids like the OP's sister's now grown sons - even ones with a parent who tries to alienate them from the other parent - are not stupid.  Absent mental illness or abuse, I think most people eventually make up their own minds about the character of people in their lives.  If dad constantly calls mom names and says horrible things about her, eventually the kids learn that dad is the nasty one.  Perhaps mom is not so great either, but the kids can learn that from what mom does and says, not what dad says about mom.  What dad says about mom says more about dad than it does about mom.

That was a winding way of saying, I don't think the problem is the ex-husband or the GF.  I think the problem is with the OP's sister.  The OP's sister could have chosen to take the high road at various stages along the way and she chose not to.  I am not saying that the OP is the sole cause of the problem, but she certainly has not contributed to a solution and her behavior likely added to the problem.  Being bitter that the GF gets along with her ex-husband and new wife is understandable but wholly unproductive, for example.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 04:53:04 PM by TurtleDove »

nolechica

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Quote
On one occasion, when my sister and future husband visited to see eldest son, baby's mother and baby, the baby's mother "hid out" at a neighbor's house, while my sister was visiting, leaving eldest son to lie about her being at work.  It was later revealed that baby's mother did not wish to spend any time in the same place as my sister.

Honestly, I don't think leaving while the son visits with mom is that bad.  It does seem that they gave TMI though.

And I agree that if this were posted from the son's POV, we'd say mom was wrong to not invite both, that doesn't change just b/c it's mom's wedding, both or neither.  Any idea when his wedding (if he's formally engaged) will be? As this could have repercussions later if MOG isn't helping pay for his wedding.

Sharnita

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TurtleDove, I am not sure if you are responding to me but my post was regarding the banned parent and why they might decide not to allow access to the grandchild who does indeed sound like she is still little.  If I was not invited I would not trust the people who had cut me to speak well or even in a neutral manner about me to/around my child.  That would probably mean they'd lose access to my child.

Jones

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First, I want to clarify, I WAS invited to my sister’s wedding, my mother simply hadn’t mailed me my invitation. When I ‘crashed’ the reception (before I knew about the unmailed invitation), it was a cake and punch reception, and her announcement in the paper said “all friends we may have overlooked are welcome to join us in celebration at…” so I did. I did NOT cause a scene in avoiding my mom. It went peacefully. Apologies occurred some time later and my mother gets grandkid time, within reason, but is very careful about her words and actions around them (and me).

Second, I have just had a chance to review the previous thread about your sister. Let me get this straight.
You said:
Quote
unless they are getting what they want, the way they want it, with no consideration for the person being asked to make the adjustments to their marching orders, the ugliness goes from slightly passive-aggressive to downright vicious.  That is no longer going to be a part of my “movie.”
And
Quote
With these people, it’s their way or the highway.  There is nothing I could say, unless I agreed to do whatever they demanded, exactly as they demanded, that would be seen as valid – regardless of how truly valid it may be.

Yet you don’t think that perhaps your nephew’s girlfriend is justified in refusing gifts and avoiding your sister with white lies? You don’t think that the son could have seen this invitation to just him as the latest in another attack from a manipulative mother?
With background, I am giving your sister less of the benefit of the doubt, and feeling more for your nephew’s SO. With your distance from the situation, I am wondering how much both you and Nephew's SO have been manipulated against each other for no reason other than...well, fireworks.

TurtleDove

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TurtleDove, I am not sure if you are responding to me but my post was regarding the banned parent and why they might decide not to allow access to the grandchild who does indeed sound like she is still little.  If I was not invited I would not trust the people who had cut me to speak well or even in a neutral manner about me to/around my child.  That would probably mean they'd lose access to my child.

I wasn't responding to you, but I think we are saying the same thing?  I am saying that the OP's sister has created or at the very least seriously contributed to this problem.  If I were the GF and I felt that my child's grandmother was unstable and actively disliked me (which comes across in the OP's post) I would not feel comfortable having my child around that person.  That child, when he or she grows up, will be able to make his or her own decisions about the people in or out of his or her life.  If the GF is truly a nasty person, her child will recognize that.  If the OP's sister truly is an amazingly sweet and kind person who never wished her mother any harm, the child will recognize that eventually.  My point was that the OP's sister cannot rule the universe and right all wrongs, but she can live her life in such a way that people will see that she is a strong, stable, person.  Right now she is not coming across that way, based on what I have read.

I went back and edited my earlier post - by "kids" I meant the OP's sister's now adult sons.  The sister blames the ex-husband for turning them against her.  I think the sister did plenty to turn them against her on her own.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 04:55:25 PM by TurtleDove »

MineralDiva

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I am assuming that the sons are adults.   

Yes, they are.

Quote
Being bitter that the GF gets along with her ex-husband and new wife is understandable but wholly unproductive, for example.

She isn't bitter.  She doesn't care if they have a relationship with her ex.  She simply won't tolerate any of his venom coming into her life through them. 

MineralDiva

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First, I want to clarify, I WAS invited to my sister’s wedding, my mother simply hadn’t mailed me my invitation. When I ‘crashed’ the reception (before I knew about the unmailed invitation), it was a cake and punch reception, and her announcement in the paper said “all friends we may have overlooked are welcome to join us in celebration at…” so I did. I did NOT cause a scene in avoiding my mom. It went peacefully. Apologies occurred some time later and my mother gets grandkid time, within reason, but is very careful about her words and actions around them (and me).

Second, I have just had a chance to review the previous thread about your sister. Let me get this straight.
You said:
Quote
unless they are getting what they want, the way they want it, with no consideration for the person being asked to make the adjustments to their marching orders, the ugliness goes from slightly passive-aggressive to downright vicious.  That is no longer going to be a part of my “movie.”
And
Quote
With these people, it’s their way or the highway.  There is nothing I could say, unless I agreed to do whatever they demanded, exactly as they demanded, that would be seen as valid – regardless of how truly valid it may be.

Yet you don’t think that perhaps your nephew’s girlfriend is justified in refusing gifts and avoiding your sister with white lies? You don’t think that the son could have seen this invitation to just him as the latest in another attack from a manipulative mother?
With background, I am giving your sister less of the benefit of the doubt, and feeling more for your nephew’s SO. With your distance from the situation, I am wondering how much both you and Nephew's SO have been manipulated against each other for no reason other than...well, fireworks.


Yes.  I saw that you were invited, but Mom didn't send the invitation.

Thanks for the snippets of the previous thread.  You may indeed be quite right!  Though I have heard from other family members, that this girlfriend is anything but a peach.  It's not something I have to immediately live with.  Nor do I care.  I didn't pick her.  My nephew did.   It's just another reason for me to stay well out of it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 05:04:35 PM by MineralDiva »

MineralDiva

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On one occasion, when my sister and future husband visited to see eldest son, baby's mother and baby, the baby's mother "hid out" at a neighbor's house, while my sister was visiting, leaving eldest son to lie about her being at work.  It was later revealed that baby's mother did not wish to spend any time in the same place as my sister.

Honestly, I don't think leaving while the son visits with mom is that bad.  It does seem that they gave TMI though.

And I agree that if this were posted from the son's POV, we'd say mom was wrong to not invite both, that doesn't change just b/c it's mom's wedding, both or neither.  Any idea when his wedding (if he's formally engaged) will be? As this could have repercussions later if MOG isn't helping pay for his wedding.

She didn't leave.  She refused to come home until THEY left.  Son told his mother that GF was working.  When the hour grew later than she would have been at work, son had to tell his mother that GF was at the neighbor's watching to see when they left, because she didn't want to have anything to do with them.  That's a bit much.

MineralDiva

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But even if she'd done it "correctly"--not inviting either--there was probably going to be fallout. And I do think that's really sad, especially when there's a grandchild involved who is probably too young to even be aware of what's going on. It's really a decision that each person would have to make for themselves, weighing the consequences of either letting the troublemaker in, or risk not seeing relatives in the future. But I think the social unit does have to be invited, or not, together--not as some obscure etiquette rule, but because in a case like this, they both really do bear some responsibility for how the other one has acted.

I agree.