Author Topic: Get off my boundaries. (very long)  (Read 12189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Coley

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2013, 02:32:08 PM »
Is talking to your mother as in telling her that you're going to care for her post-surgery or as in throwing a big, private "Criticize Coley Festival?"

Because if he's telling her you're going to care for her, you may need to tell mom otherwise ahead of time, even if it causes extra drama.  If it's "Criticize Coley Fest," he's right, there's nothing you can do to stop him.  But a decent, loving person has enough strength not to a) make that threat or b) engage in the behavior.

He meant that he could say anything he wants about me whenever he wants and about whatever he wants. No need to check facts or anything. In his first diatribe, he gave her an explanation of why I wouldn't help her after her surgery, and it wasn't true. The goofy thing is that all this talking about me seems to negate all his complaining about being in the middle. If he would stop involving himself in my relationship with her, he'd find that he isn't in the middle at all.

My mother knows I can't do it. I told her last Friday night. I reminded her that she has insurance that will cover this type of care, so if my brother can't help her, she should arrange care through the hospital with her insurance. My brother is aware of all this, too, which makes the diatribe even more ridiculous.

Venus193

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 16116
  • Backstage passes are wonderful things!
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2013, 03:20:10 PM »
Your brother is a classic example of generationally-created narcissism.  He's a male version of your mother.

I also vote for the Cut Direct.  I recommend filtering his e-mails to a designated folder and having your DH look at them from time to time just in case you need them for legal purposes.

I also recommend another book on narcissism:  Why Is It Always About You? by Sandy Hotchkiss
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Always-About-You-Narcissism/dp/0743214285/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372446867&sr=1-4&keywords=narcissism

It has a chapter on "The Aging Narcissist" which is currently relevant (your mother) and will be relevant about your brother eventually.  Of the books I've read on this subject this is the only one with such a chapter.

Danika

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1999
  • I'm not speeding. I'm qualifying.
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2013, 04:34:19 PM »
"generationally-created narcissism"

Venus193, that's fascinating. Narcissisms runs rampant in my family. I wondered if there were a genetic component or something. I'm glad to learn of this phrase. I looked it up on Wikipedia and it talks about how it can get passed on from generation to generation.

Coley

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2013, 05:18:00 PM »
Your brother is a classic example of generationally-created narcissism.  He's a male version of your mother.

I also vote for the Cut Direct.  I recommend filtering his e-mails to a designated folder and having your DH look at them from time to time just in case you need them for legal purposes.

I also recommend another book on narcissism:  Why Is It Always About You? by Sandy Hotchkiss
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Always-About-You-Narcissism/dp/0743214285/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372446867&sr=1-4&keywords=narcissism

It has a chapter on "The Aging Narcissist" which is currently relevant (your mother) and will be relevant about your brother eventually.  Of the books I've read on this subject this is the only one with such a chapter.

Thank you for the book suggestion. I've heard about it, but I haven't read it before. I will check that out.

I have:
"Where to Draw the Line" by Anne Katherine, which is about setting boundaries
"Will I Ever Be Good Enough" by Karyl McBride, which is specifically for daughters of narcissistic mothers
"The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists" by Eleanor Payson

It makes sense to me that narcissism is passed down in families. I would think there would be a significant environmental component to that. Undeniably, the children of the narcissist can see and therefore learn from the narcissistic parent's patterns. If the child sees passive-aggression and manipulation, the child may emulate that. If the child sees a scapegoated sibling treated poorly, the child might emulate that. If the child observes indirect communication, the child might emulate that. And if boundaries are routinely squashed in the household, the child might emulate that, too. It would become a pattern in childhood that would continue into adulthood.

I have read that the scapegoated child has a better chance of escaping the bonds of familial narcissism than a golden child.

Venus193

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 16116
  • Backstage passes are wonderful things!
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2013, 05:45:46 PM »
That phrase is mine; I didn't get it from any of these books.

I don't believe that this is genetic.  I believe that it's about doing what seems to work and learning that behavior unconsciously before one realizes it's wrong.

Scapegoated children are not immune from developing narcissistic traits although they are usually not identical to the parent's (especially if it's the same-sex parent).

weeblewobble

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3397
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2013, 06:53:11 PM »

I have read that the scapegoated child has a better chance of escaping the bonds of familial narcissism than a golden child.

True.  Because so much of the golden child's self-image, self-worth and identity is wrapped up in being the golden child.  While the scapegoat has had to establish those things without the family's love or support.  If the golden child shakes off those bonds, there goes his whole world, his operating system.  Even if the system causes him pain, it's all he knows and the only way he knows how to define himself.  If the scapegoat shakes off of those bonds, he realizes that contrary to what his family has told him all of his life, he is valuable and loveable.

Lynda_34

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
Re: Get off my boundaries. (very long)
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2013, 11:08:00 PM »
Quote
A lot of what he said the past couple of days is laughable. I wanted to say, "All these things you say about me ... Have you looked in the mirror lately?" But I didn't.



A classic case of projection.

try well you're entitled to your perception. I am sorry you see it that way.

Absolutely. My mother used to do the same. She'd say things like, "If your friends knew the 'real' you, they would never want to be friends with you." As if I had two personalities -- the fake one with my friends and the "real" one at home. I always figured she was talking about herself. If I'd said that out loud, she'd have slapped me, so I didn't say it. But I knew it was projection.

I realized after I wrote all of this that my brother's talk about how I am full of anger and rage was actually a manipulative tactic on his part. To him, if I wanted to prove that I'm not angry and full of rage, then I would get on board with his "opportunity." I failed the test.

I didn't get on board. I have nothing to prove.