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Author Topic: Saying No  (Read 7672 times)

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Rusty

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2015, 02:01:46 AM »
This can be a tricky one as some people develop the mindset that if you will pay, then you can pay.   I have a long term small group of friends who meet for coffee a couple of times a month.  One member of the group, Helen, always was short when it came to paying the bill, not a lot but sometimes I would just pay her share.  Sometimes she paid me back, sometimes not. She would never contribute to group presents or attend any event that cost her any money.  She never seemed well off, wore the same clothes forever, always bargain hunted for the cheapest food, never took any other holidays than camping with her family, in general always being extremely frugal. We all thought they were on a very tight budget.  Low and behold her husband retired at 50 and since then they have been travelling the world, in style.  It seems every spare cent was pumped into the retirement fund. 

When a few people expressed their amazement at this turn of events she became quite indignant and said that people were just jealous.

No, not jealous, just annoyed that at times we were subsidizing the retirement fund.

Don't be a fool when it comes to your friend, if it came to it would she do the same for you?


Curly Wurly Doggie Breath

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2015, 05:19:51 AM »
*eye twitch* BTDT got the door mat badge.

-I dealt by ordering a large salad, Potato wedges, sour cream and sweet chilli sauce and a large tea pot of  Earl grey tea. along with an extra cup and plate.
and shared the lunch.
-Second time around, i got the large teapot again, but ordered a simple couple of bits of Toasted raisin bread and butter. Again shared.
-There was no third time, I /We met After lunch and made sure to be finished before Tea/dinner.

((Hugs)) OP  [and others]

                          The Southern Cross Flag. Australia

EllenS

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2015, 10:22:49 AM »
I find it's a lot more helpful to me, to figure out what I am willing to do without resentment, and focus on that.

Invite her for movie night and a home-cooked meal? Make it a regular/standing invitation?
Offer to help her with her resume, or lend her an interview outfit if she is looking for a better job?
I think your idea of offering help with the budget is good.
If her power is cut off, would you let her use your washer/dryer?
Gift her a meal-planning subscription to help save grocery money?

Just brainstorming, but for me, it helps me maintain a positive attitude to start from what I can/will do, than start listing stuff I refuse to do. It makes it easier to hold the line on "no", when I have a ready "yes" to something else constructive.

gellchom

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »
I find it's a lot more helpful to me, to figure out what I am willing to do without resentment, and focus on that.

Invite her for movie night and a home-cooked meal? Make it a regular/standing invitation?
Offer to help her with her resume, or lend her an interview outfit if she is looking for a better job?
I think your idea of offering help with the budget is good.
If her power is cut off, would you let her use your washer/dryer?
Gift her a meal-planning subscription to help save grocery money?

Just brainstorming, but for me, it helps me maintain a positive attitude to start from what I can/will do, than start listing stuff I refuse to do. It makes it easier to hold the line on "no", when I have a ready "yes" to something else constructive.

EllenS, that is a really wise insight and great advice.  I think many of us are going to be very grateful for years that you shared it with us.  I know I am.  Thank you so much.

TootsNYC

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2015, 01:43:21 PM »
EllenS is so wise! (as always)

I also found, w/ one of my moocher friends, that it was smart to have a rule: I will help you with logistics, physical effort, conversation. As long as it fits in my schedule.

But I won't help you with anything monetary. Period.

I suppose if money had been the difference between life and death, literally, I would have--but probably not until after I'd suggested going to the adjusted-fee emergency room or whatever.

ladyknight1

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2015, 06:35:40 PM »
A friend, who moved back home with her parents now, would rarely have enough money to pay her way when we went out. I was appalled when I found out she was spending her entertainment money elsewhere, and mooching off me and other friends. I ended the opportunities to mooch, and she persisted for a few weeks, but got the hint then.

wonderfullyanonymous

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2015, 06:09:58 AM »
When she asks if you want to go to lunch, tell her, sure, but you will pay your own way, this time.

When you get to said restaurant, tell the server, right away, separate checks.

Order what you want, you know what you can afford. Let her order hers.

At the end of the meal, when the checks come, pay yours right away, put the tip, for your check, with your payment.

If she sits there looking at you, waiting for you to offer to pay for hers, make some excuse for cutting lunch short.

She was given early enough warning that checks would be separate, if she over spent, that is on her. If she asks if she can borrow, tell her, sorry, that's not possible today.

YummyMummy66

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2015, 06:25:15 AM »
Who initiates these get gatherings?  You or friend?     If at your home, I would expect to host, but it does not have to be expensive.  If she is over for whatever reason and the reason is not for a meal, and it comes to meal time, if she asks, you say, that would be great, this is what I can contribute, what will be your contribution?   If she says, I thought you would get it, "oh, sorry, that will not be possible, sorry, we will have to make it another time then, I will see you to the door now".   But, but...."Sally, sorry, but it is not in my budget to subsidize your share.  No worries.  WE will just plan a meal for another time when you are able to do so". 

If it comes up about going out to eat, "Sure, that would be great, but just to let you know, I cannot pay for your share.  Do you still want to go?  Sure!....ok.  Then ask for separate checks right off the bat.   Check comes, you pay your share with tip directly to waiter."  (I would also make sure Sally or whatever name we are using, that she has her wallet/purse with her before you leave or enter restaurant.

If she balks or says something, "Sally, while I have supported you in many ways since the loss of your husband, I am sorry, but I am not your husband.  It is not my job nor my responsibility to continue to support a lifestyle you choose for yourself.  if you cannot afford to do something, I completely understand, there are many things we can do to continue our friendship that does not have to cost anything.  We can talk on the phone, we can hang for a bit, go for a walk, just get a cup of coffee.  If you are looking for more in financial ways, sorry, but that is not going to work for me any longer".   

m2kbug

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2015, 11:01:27 AM »
Whenever there is a purchase to be made, check to be picked up I hear the phrase "Are you buying" whether it is going out, staying in an getting a pizza, making dinner, chipping in for a group gift.
Help needed with house bills, electric, etc. has been insinuated.  (after the Happy to Help stage, I offered sympathy and to talk through budget plan options but she changed the subject.)

I have gone from "Happy to Help" to "Sure" to "Really?" to "Not this time"  to " Nope" and even with the No's when the bill comes I hear I can't afford this so I get stuck with the bill anyway.

Here is what I would do. 
  • Never ever ask her out to do anything that has any kind of cost associated with it.  Ask her to go for a walk with you, ask her over to your house for a visit, stuff like that.
  • If she asks you to do anything that has a cost associated with it - ask her straight out "Are you buying your own coffee/your own lunch/your own groceries/your own ticket to the zoo?" If she says "yes" up front and then tried to wiggle out of it later, hold her to it. (easier said then done).  Or you could just never ever accept one-on-one outings with her than might have any kind of cost attached.
  • If you and she are out in a group and she asks other people to pick up her portion, say nothing and keep your wallet closed.  Let someone else subsidize her if they want to.

This would probably be my plan of action.  First, I would avoid any activities that cost anything.  I can continue to be willing to pick up the tab for inexpensive activities, like providing a rented movie and snacks or bringing extra water for a walk in the park, or even paying for an occasional drink because I want one myself, but the line stops there.  I do without unless I am willing to cover the extra expense.

Number two would be to clarify if she is able to cover her own expenses, and if not, then we revert to #1.  If she says that, yes, she will cover her own expense and you end up paying her share anyway, then there will be no more one-on-one outings unless I am willing to cover the entire cost and extend the invitation as my treat.  I think it would be okay in this situation to say something like, "I usually end up paying for everything, and I just can't afford to do it right now, so how about we do <free thing> instead?"  Never buy anything where she will "pay you back," like tickets.

From here, only plan costly outings with a group and keep my wallet closed.  If someone else wants to cover her expense, they are free to do so.  It might become a set of circumstances where the only time you spend time with Friend is when there are other people around to pad the cost, whether you chip in or not.  In this situation, if you choose to contribute, at least it's $3 instead of $30.  Eventually these other people (if they haven't already) will tire of it too, especially when they become the sole source of support, as other friends/family who are willing to contribute dwindle down and seal their wallets closed. 

I have a very tight income.  I don't go out, and when I do, it's with the knowledge that either, A) I can pay my own expense; or B) Someone has offered to treat and expresses that up front.  I don't go out with the assumption that other people will cover my expense.  I will thank them for the invitation and decline to go.  I miss out on a lot of things.  It sucks, but it is what it is. 

mstigerlily

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Re: Saying No
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2015, 03:34:09 PM »
...
If she complains or you can't just say "no." (and in real life sometimes I -and probably many others here- can't bring ourselves to) .....

 .... Do not allow yourself to feel guilty if she only gets a water while you order a full meal- and don't let her steal/beg away half your food!

You can't say no, but you could do that?  That is very surprising.  I am just the opposite -- I can say "Sorry, no, I can't," but I could never sit there enjoying a full meal in front of someone having only water because she couldn't afford food.  I honestly think that is rather mean.  I'm not saying that the OP has to or should treat her, either.  But to do that would take incredible nerve, so I'm really surprised that anyone who would feel comfortable doing that wouldn't have the nerve just to say no or suggest some outing other than a meal.  There are many kinder ways to get the message across.

This is the problem when we let things go on until we are really angry, as Toots has pointed out to us before.  It's much harder to communicate the situation calmly and nicely and harder for the other person not to feel defensive.

What I was picturing, was a situation where the friend states or implies she has enough money for the restaurant, encourages the OP to order (and pay) first, then places her own order and reveals her expectation that the OP pay. She's banking on the fact that the OP won't want to sit and eat in front of her, so she'll pay for the friend's meal--when in fact the friend got herself into this awkward situation on her own. So if this is indeed what happened, I wouldn't find it mean to eat in front of her.

That's more what I meant. Friend picks restaurant, says she has enough money for it, and then expects OP to pick up the check. I agree I'd probably prefer to get my food to go or to cancel the order if possible. I would never sit and eat a major three-course meal and make mmm noises and rub it in her face. My suggestion was skewed by the fact that in my circle we tend to go out and order as you want, with some people not ordering anything by their own choice (aka they can afford it but don't want to).


Note to self: drink another coffee before hitting reply...