Author Topic: Dvorak on the plane  (Read 12846 times)

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cwm

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2013, 11:20:52 AM »
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I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

One must ask, though, why those of us who want a bit of (reasonable, sort of achievable) peace & quiet on the plane are the ones who must bend. I'm getting flashback to the thread where people were singing in the ICU waiting room.

I've been on a plane that was stuck on the tarmac for over an hour. There was no peace and quiet. Everyone was rustling in their seats, talking, getting on their cell phones and conversing loudly, complaining to the flight attendants, and the children on board were starting to scream. Luckily they deplaned us, but I can't imagine that staying stuck on the plane for longer would constitute anyone's definition of peace and quiet.

I have anxiety attacks, especially in crowds or places that I can't escape easily from. In an airplane, when I'm stuck and everyone else is getting antsy, I have been known to force myself into breathing exercises or start humming quietly to myself because sometimes music is literally THE ONLY thing keeping me from sobbing hysterically. I would have welcomed this music, or any music. It likely would have been a lifeline to me.

I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

Was it rude? Unless someone had raised objections and they kept going despite them, no. This group set up in the seats, there were other people scrambling around holding their music for them, the cello was angled into the aisle. I can't imagine how it could have come as a surprise to anyone that they were going to play. There was plenty of time to speak up if someone had a problem with it. It would appear that nobody did, so they played a relatively short piece and then went back to waiting. I don't see how that could be construed as bad.

katiescarlett

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2013, 11:30:26 AM »
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(

They were not rude.  If this is the case, it is up to you (generic you) to speak up before they begin playing.  I am sure if someone on the plane had a good reason for not wanting them to play, they would not have.  Especially in the case of someone with a medical issue like autism or migraines.  You simply have to speak up.  They were trying to be nice and give the people on the plane a gift.  These people seemed very much to enjoy the impromptu performance.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 11:37:09 AM by katiescarlett »

sparksals

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2013, 11:41:03 AM »
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there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep

Where was that mentioned in the video? How do you know they didn't ask beforehand? See my earlier post - and those following mine about taking some responsibility for yourself.

StarFaerie, that possibility has already been covered by several people in the thread.


Why should I take responsibility for myself when they are the ones doing the intruding?  THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.

Two Ravens

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2013, 11:42:45 AM »
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there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep

Where was that mentioned in the video? How do you know they didn't ask beforehand? See my earlier post - and those following mine about taking some responsibility for yourself.

StarFaerie, that possibility has already been covered by several people in the thread.

Why should I take responsibility for myself when they are the ones doing the intruding?  THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.

It's clear to me they must have said something before, since all of those people managed to get their cameras out.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 11:52:30 AM by Two Ravens »

sparksals

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2013, 11:46:44 AM »
I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

If I were on this plane, I would be ticked.   I think about when dH and I were coming back from France after a VERY long trip via Helsinki.  We also had a long layover in Chicago and a long line in US Customs.  On our flight home to MSP, if that orchestra started to play, I probably would have got up and destringed their violins. 

Would you really have done this, or is this just written for effect?

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Music is such a personal choice and I believe they overstepped by inflicting it on everyone without opportunity to opt out.  What were people who didn't like it to do?  Get up and be the party killers? 

I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)


Yes, just wrote for effect.


I don't expect to board an international flight and have an orchestra playing.  There is a reason people wear headphones when listening to music or watching their DVD player.  It is not something tailored for 'my' preference.  It is REASONABLE to expect a certain level of noise on a flight... aka people milling around, conversations btwn passengers sharing a row... etc.  NOt an orchestra playing music. 


I like Classic Rock.  On an International flight, I wouldn't appreciate Aerosmith or Dave Matthews Band doing the same thing... even if I like their music, an airplane is not the place to do it!


How many times have we seen posts about people wearing headphones on a flight so loud that the people around can hear it.  That is rude.   Don't know why an orchestra playing on the plane isn't also! 


It would be equally rude if someone started playing their movie or music with no headphones.  Why is the orchestra different?  It is FAR more disruptive.

sparksals

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2013, 11:48:04 AM »
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

I think that's a bit different. What I'm questioning is the "I don't like this type of music, therefore it's rude and they should stop" angle, or even the "I'm tired and grumpy after a long flight therefore it's rude and they must stop" angle. I don't think their opinion or preference trumps that of those who *are* enjoying it.


I would not want *any* type of live music on a flight. 

sparksals

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2013, 11:49:34 AM »
Six minutes could definitely trigger a migraine.  I imagine it would be more than enough  to trigger a reaction from somebody who has autism. And the reaction doesn't stop when the music stop.  The pain the person is feeling continues when the music is over.  So the music stopping once they notice somebody having a reaction is too little, too late.

Now, when we walk into stores with music we don't like we turn on our heels and walk right back out.  People sitting on a plane don't have that option.

But, except of course in cases where it's legislated, one cannot expect the rest of the world to conform to the restrictions of one's medical condition, and I speak as someone who suffers from migraine. It's not a reasonable benchmark for deciding whether it's rude or not.


Reasonably, one would not expect a loud orchestra to perform on an airplane.   It is a significant diversion from the norm of reasonable expectations. 

MariaE

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(

They were not rude.  If this is the case, it is up to you (generic you) to speak up before they begin playing.  I am sure if someone on the plane had a good reason for not wanting them to play, they would not have.  Especially in the case of someone with a medical issue like autism or migraines.  You simply have to speak up.  They were trying to be nice and give the people on the plane a gift.  These people seemed very much to enjoy the impromptu performance.

I think you quoted me by mistake. I never said they were rude. In fact, I've said repeatedly that they were not rude - even in the post you quoted here  :)
 
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SiotehCat

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2013, 11:58:36 AM »
I think they were rude. It's no different than if I took a boom box with me and started playing heavy metal.

I ride the bus, and even on the bus there is a rule that your music cannot be loud enough for other people to hear it.


Olympia

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2013, 12:00:02 PM »
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

gollymolly2

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2013, 12:43:24 PM »
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.

The thing is, though, I would not expect when buying a plane ticket that a band would later break out their equipment & strike up a tune on that plane.

I'm sure most wouldn't expect a band to play on an airplane but it is reasonable, when flying, to expect many annoying, loud noises and so if those bother you (general you) then it's reasonable to buy ear plugs if loud, public noises bother you.

I see a difference between normal loud sounds on an airplane and a string quartet. I can function in the world. Normal plane sounds - baby crying, a person talking loudly on the phone, two people having a conversation, lots of announcements from the pilot, the hum of the engine (sometimes theyre really noisy) - don't bother me. I can still have a conversation and hear myself over the people around me. I can put in headphones and (mostly) drown it out. I can put in earphones and (mostly) drown it out. Not an option with something this loud.

Not a huge deal or anything. I just don't think the posts that people should be prepared for noise on a plane are being entirely fair. Yes, you should be prepared for noise.  No, you're not entitled to live in a bubble that caters to all your needs.  That doesnt mean that it's unreasonable after being stuck in a small box filled with circulated air with a bunch of strangers for a long period of time to want to be free from sounds (even nice ones) that are so loud that they effectively prevent you from doing anything but sitting there listening to them.




citadelle

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2013, 12:50:32 PM »
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

In general, unannounced entertainment on a plane would be rude. Imagine stand up comedy? Or a child's recital? Or Sheldon Cooper's Tuvan throat singing or his theramin?

However, this seems to be that one particular instance where everyone agreed and enjoyed it. That is a good thing!

SiotehCat

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2013, 12:54:37 PM »
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

In general, unannounced entertainment on a plane would be rude. Imagine stand up comedy? Or a child's recital? Or Sheldon Cooper's Tuvan throat singing or his theramin?

However, this seems to be that one particular instance where everyone agreed and enjoyed it. That is a good thing!

Do they have statements from everyone on the plan saying they all enjoyed it? Or are you assuming that because nobody spoke out at the time?


TeamBhakta

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2013, 12:58:54 PM »
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 01:00:28 PM by TeamBhakta »

Fleur

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Re: Dvorak on the plane
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2013, 01:08:48 PM »

I would have loved it, I think it was a lovely getsure.