Author Topic: Please take notes, thank you. Update #29  (Read 6647 times)

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Marguette

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2013, 10:13:21 AM »
Another voice chiming in to agree that letting them watch you is not enough even if they follow along in the documentation, take notes, and sign off. They have to do it themselves – first under your supervision, and then with you hands-off but available for questions.

You may know the saying, “I hear – I forget. I see – I remember. I do – I understand.” I would be quite capable watching my trainer do something, and signing off that I’ve been trained, but when I came to do it myself I would realize that I had not captured some essential elements and I would still have gaps in my knowledge.

WillyNilly

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 11:12:54 AM »
Having someone watch you do something isn't training someone, its explaining or demonstrating a task. Training someone involves the trainee actually trying the task.

And I know for me, that is actually when take the best notes. When I'm watching/listening I'm actively watching and listening - I have no time for notes and they would sort of pointless anyway because often (I find) what people think I should take note of is not the part I forget. I need to take notes as I'm doing - because that's when I'm hitting the spots where I'm forgetting steps and its those forgotten steps I need to take note of.

PastryGoddess

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 11:39:09 AM »
Having someone watch you do something isn't training someone, its explaining or demonstrating a task. Training someone involves the trainee actually trying the task.

And I know for me, that is actually when take the best notes. When I'm watching/listening I'm actively watching and listening - I have no time for notes and they would sort of pointless anyway because often (I find) what people think I should take note of is not the part I forget. I need to take notes as I'm doing - because that's when I'm hitting the spots where I'm forgetting steps and its those forgotten steps I need to take note of.

This is me.  I've actually frustrated some trainers because I will ask to do the task while they are watching.  Apparently this was a novel concept to some people.

mbbored

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 12:53:05 PM »
Another thing to do is have the trainee perform the task, with you watching.  That way you are there to correct any issues.  And then have them do the task completely from their notes.

I used to work in a lab.  I had written up standard operating procedures for every test we ran.  When I was training someone, I would have them watch me the first time.  Then they would do the task with me watching and prompting them.  Then I'd have them do the task on their own, following the instructions in the SOP.  I'd be there but I'd keep my mouth shut.  :)  It had a secondary effect in that it allowed us to catch any deficiencies in the SOPs.  I'd automatically just do any step I forgot to write down but someone learning?  That missed step was crucial.

This is what I've done in the past.

Also, if I make up the documentation, I feel better about it.

This also is what works for me (a fellow lab worker). Provide a written protocol, have the trainee follow it while you perform the task, then allow them to do it while you observe. Finally give them a chance to do it completely on their own while somebody is available to help if the trainee has questions, then check their work. Once this has been done, have them sign and date a form that they've been trained in XYZ protocol. Yes, it's more time intensive for the trainer initially, but I find the trainee has a better idea of what's going on and makes fewer mistakes in the long run.

Amara

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2013, 12:54:58 PM »
I actually have them watch me do it three times. The first time they are do nothing but watch without worrying about remembering anything. I want this to leave a kind of vague feeling of familiarity when they see it again. The second time, which can be later or the next day, they watch again but my explanation is even more detailed and I go slower. Again, no notes but I answer all questions. The third time is when they are expected to take notes and ask more detailed questions.

Then I have them do it by themselves but with my advice and counseling if needed. They need to correct their own notes at this time. It makes this time the slowest of all but also ensures that they will remember almost all of it. After that, they are on their own but I am available if they have any questions. It seems to work well.

cwm

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 12:55:26 PM »
I learn best by doing, and I make immaculate notes when I first start doing something. Come to think of it, I need to revise my step by step procedures for several tasks I do because I've found a MUCH easier way to do them. All of my training documents include words and images on how to do things.

That said, I'm a terrible trainer. I demonstrate and explain much better than I can sit back and watch. But all of the tasks that I've trained people on are things that I'm still around to demonstrate long-term or that someone else can show them how to do.

What's worked for me as a trainee is having a shadow half the day. So you would follow this person to see what's going wrong and make your own notes. Then the next half of the day is going over the notes on what needs to be fixed/improved/what have you. The next day they're shadowing you, and taking notes on what you're doing right with the things they did wrong, if that makes sense.

TootsNYC

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 01:26:22 PM »
Another thing to do is have the trainee perform the task, with you watching.  That way you are there to correct any issues.  And then have them do the task completely from their notes.

I used to work in a lab.  I had written up standard operating procedures for every test we ran.  When I was training someone, I would have them watch me the first time.  Then they would do the task with me watching and prompting them.  Then I'd have them do the task on their own, following the instructions in the SOP.  I'd be there but I'd keep my mouth shut.  :)  It had a secondary effect in that it allowed us to catch any deficiencies in the SOPs.  I'd automatically just do any step I forgot to write down but someone learning?  That missed step was crucial.

This is what I've done in the past.

Also, if I make up the documentation, I feel better about it.

This also is what works for me (a fellow lab worker). Provide a written protocol, have the trainee follow it while you perform the task, then allow them to do it while you observe. Finally give them a chance to do it completely on their own while somebody is available to help if the trainee has questions, then check their work. Once this has been done, have them sign and date a form that they've been trained in XYZ protocol. Yes, it's more time intensive for the trainer initially, but I find the trainee has a better idea of what's going on and makes fewer mistakes in the long run.

I have them use that written documentation AND write their notes ON IT.

I don't like to have them write up separate notes, actually. I worry they'll be incomplete.

mbbored

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 04:18:52 PM »
Another thing to do is have the trainee perform the task, with you watching.  That way you are there to correct any issues.  And then have them do the task completely from their notes.

I used to work in a lab.  I had written up standard operating procedures for every test we ran.  When I was training someone, I would have them watch me the first time.  Then they would do the task with me watching and prompting them.  Then I'd have them do the task on their own, following the instructions in the SOP.  I'd be there but I'd keep my mouth shut.  :)  It had a secondary effect in that it allowed us to catch any deficiencies in the SOPs.  I'd automatically just do any step I forgot to write down but someone learning?  That missed step was crucial.

This is what I've done in the past.

Also, if I make up the documentation, I feel better about it.

This also is what works for me (a fellow lab worker). Provide a written protocol, have the trainee follow it while you perform the task, then allow them to do it while you observe. Finally give them a chance to do it completely on their own while somebody is available to help if the trainee has questions, then check their work. Once this has been done, have them sign and date a form that they've been trained in XYZ protocol. Yes, it's more time intensive for the trainer initially, but I find the trainee has a better idea of what's going on and makes fewer mistakes in the long run.

I have them use that written documentation AND write their notes ON IT.

I don't like to have them write up separate notes, actually. I worry they'll be incomplete.

I like to do that as well. Unfortunately, the last place I worked wouldn't allow you to write on the SOPs for fear that somebody would write in an incorrect step and mess up future testing. But we did diagnostic testing for a government agency so absolute adherence to the protocol was a must.

pierrotlunaire0

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2013, 09:57:36 AM »
If this is any way a complex task, I would have to recommend that you have your trainee perform the task either alone while you watch or in tandem with you.

I have a brand new trainee myself who has been taking extensive notes.  In our job, there is no substitute for the actual situation.  Even the simulations she went through her first 2 days at region were not the same as the real thing.  In our case, until you are in a crowded lobby with screaming children, and frustrated, tired people, all the notes in the world will fail you.  It is the repetition of the task that will save you.

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TootsNYC

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2013, 11:52:18 AM »
And back to the question in the title:

Absolute, you are the trainer, and you can say, "You need a notebook, and you must take notes."

You can also insist on reading his notes and correcting them or having him expand them (a bit).

magicdomino

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2013, 12:08:31 PM »
Periodically, I train people on a one-to-one basis.  I find the best way is to make the student sit at the computer and do the actual work.  I'll sit next to her, telling her what to do, gradually becoming more quiet.  I may furnish a check list, but I don't worry about the student taking notes. 

emwithme

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2013, 03:44:47 PM »
In one of my very early jobs, I had to train a team of people and had previously not done anything like this, so was sent on a "Train the Trainer" course.

The best thing I've taken away from it is the "four step training process" (with my explanatory notes in brackets):

  • I do it quickly (ie at the speed expected of a trained and experienced person)
  • I do it slow (ie as slowly as is needed for the trainee to take notes and ask questions)
  • You do it for me (as many times as is needed until you are doing it competently, even if slower than trained people or using notes etc)
  • And away you go (and do it on your own).

I've found that using this system, both as a trainer and a trainee (once I've explained it to the person training me), works well. 

TootsNYC

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2013, 04:39:38 PM »
In one of my very early jobs, I had to train a team of people and had previously not done anything like this, so was sent on a "Train the Trainer" course.

The best thing I've taken away from it is the "four step training process" (with my explanatory notes in brackets):

  • I do it quickly (ie at the speed expected of a trained and experienced person)
  • I do it slow (ie as slowly as is needed for the trainee to take notes and ask questions)
  • You do it for me (as many times as is needed until you are doing it competently, even if slower than trained people or using notes etc)
  • And away you go (and do it on your own).

I've found that using this system, both as a trainer and a trainee (once I've explained it to the person training me), works well.

Ooh, I love that!

It's similar to how I was taught to teach a song. (which includes the FIRST step of them just listening, and a last step of them again just listening WITHOUT singing, even though they've learned it in pieces)

I may have to try a similar tactic!

checkitnice

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2013, 09:14:27 AM »
Thank you all!  I started having him do the tasks while I watched, and printing extra results to write notes on.  He did them all correctly with very minimal coaching on my part, which was reassuring.  We have several shortcuts or "macros" that can be used, and I asked him NOT to use any of them until he was totally familiar with doing everything the longer way. 

I'm hoping that if we continue this for the next couple of weeks, we should be up to speed. 

checkitnice

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Re: Please take notes, thank you.
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2013, 10:47:11 PM »
Update:  retraining went TOO smoothly. While being watched, he can do everything competently and quickly. When not under direct observation, like last week when I was getting ready to go on a mini vacation and then actually taking two days off, he just doesn't pay attention to detail or procedure at all.

He picked and chose what work to get done and quite frankly left a lot just NOT done. There's no way he can argue training, as one simple task involves printing out a list of items to review and then crossing them off one by one. Skipping the difficult ones, and skipping the task for entire days (we do it daily) is just not done. He called off today due to personal drama, so we'll see how tomorrow goes.