Will you be around this afternoon?

[TootsNYC]

"...you have the gall to criticize me?"  Hey, it might not be E-Hell approved, but it's the truth and Mr. Biggity-Big Pants Rob needs to hear it.

I actually think too many times we hide our offended-ness. We ought to let it show a bit, it hink. That's part of the natural balance.

Even if it's just, "Rob, I don't think you realize how offensive that comment was. How dare you criticize my choice of car, as though it somehow makes me a lesser person." And walk off.

When people are rude, they deserve to know it. Because how else will they learn?


Coley, sounds like a great update!

I had this one thought:

2) When Rob tries to pull one of his last-minute "drive by" visits, we need to give more thought to our initial response than an immediate "yes" to a text of "Will you be around this afternoon?" DH realizes now that the immediate "yes" is what's putting us on the hook. I gave DH the suggestions from PPs about calling Rob back to talk specifics rather than replying to his texts so we have a better chance of pinning him down. If Rob refuses to answer the phone and doesn't respond to a message, then our response needs to be, "Looks like it won't work out this time. Maybe next time."

If he doesn't pick up the phone, text him and say, "tried to call you--call me back  in 20 mins if you still want to make plans."

[Hmmmmm]

It sounds like you guys have a good plan. I'm glad your DH has you there for support. You seem like a very loving wife.

[aiki]

Also, I've got a suggestion/question:  The next time your son-in-law makes a snarky comment about your husband driving an old car, etc., what would happen if your husband tells him the truth about why your husband's finances are tight?  Why not let him know where his father's money went for so long?

Yes, I was thinking just that: Old enough to ask the question (Why are you still driving that wreck?), old enough to hear the answer.

[sparksals]

You can't change someone, but you can change how you react to them.  It may get worse before it gets better, but it will give you and DH satisfaction not sitting around waiting for Rob. 


Lather, Rinse, Repeat... Looks like it won't work out.  Maybe next time.

[Itza]

There’s one other possibility that I’ve just thought of.

What if this is a situation whereby Michelle is guilt tripped into spending a lot of time with her family so that Rob doesn’t want to put pressure on her to spend any time with his family as he knows one or both of her parents will be on at her for leaving them to see his parents.

So, to his parents, they say they’re going to ‘drop by’, yet this drop by rarely happens because Michelle’s too afraid to leave her parents right then depending on the atmosphere at the time.

I know it’s all conjecture: I’m just thinking of how my own mother repeatedly guilt tripped me when she felt I wasn’t spending enough time with her or calling her enough and would accuse me of always visiting my in-laws and never visiting her and Dad when in fact the opposite was true.



Corrected 'this family' to read 'his family'.

[Coley]

Also, I've got a suggestion/question:  The next time your son-in-law makes a snarky comment about your husband driving an old car, etc., what would happen if your husband tells him the truth about why your husband's finances are tight?  Why not let him know where his father's money went for so long?

Yes, I was thinking just that: Old enough to ask the question (Why are you still driving that wreck?), old enough to hear the answer.

Yep, it may be time for DH to "come clean" about that. DH and I talked about this the other night. Based on appearances only, it may look like Rob's mother was the one supporting him and that DH was some kind of irresponsible deadbeat. In reality, DH gave Rob's mother hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to support the boys. The divorce decree allowed her to make all the decisions on how the money was spent, and DH had little to no voice in that -- unless she allowed him to. She had no reason or motivation to acknowledge DH's contributions, so it may appear to Rob that DH's contributions were negligible. DH wonders if that could be a factor in Rob's attitude toward him. He won't know, of course, unless he has that conversation with Rob.

[TurtleDove]

Yep, it may be time for DH to "come clean" about that. DH and I talked about this the other night. Based on appearances only, it may look like Rob's mother was the one supporting him and that DH was some kind of irresponsible deadbeat. In reality, DH gave Rob's mother hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to support the boys. The divorce decree allowed her to make all the decisions on how the money was spent, and DH had little to no voice in that -- unless she allowed him to. She had no reason or motivation to acknowledge DH's contributions, so it may appear to Rob that DH's contributions were negligible. DH wonders if that could be a factor in Rob's attitude toward him. He won't know, of course, unless he has that conversation with Rob.

This is where your DH's passivity is really working against him.  I can almost guarantee this is why Rob is the way he is with your DH!!!!  It shocks me that your DH would not have formed some sort of relationship and understanding with his children over the years relating to the divorce.  I think a lot of DH's current issues with Rob would be alleviated if he made his sacrifices for his sons clear to them.  He doesn't need to badmouth their mother.  He just needs to not passively play the martyr.  He can do this and I bet it will get WAY better soon!

[Coley]

Yep, it may be time for DH to "come clean" about that. DH and I talked about this the other night. Based on appearances only, it may look like Rob's mother was the one supporting him and that DH was some kind of irresponsible deadbeat. In reality, DH gave Rob's mother hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to support the boys. The divorce decree allowed her to make all the decisions on how the money was spent, and DH had little to no voice in that -- unless she allowed him to. She had no reason or motivation to acknowledge DH's contributions, so it may appear to Rob that DH's contributions were negligible. DH wonders if that could be a factor in Rob's attitude toward him. He won't know, of course, unless he has that conversation with Rob.

This is where your DH's passivity is really working against him.  I can almost guarantee this is why Rob is the way he is with your DH!!!!  It shocks me that your DH would not have formed some sort of relationship and understanding with his children over the years relating to the divorce.  I think a lot of DH's current issues with Rob would be alleviated if he made his sacrifices for his sons clear to them.  He doesn't need to badmouth their mother.  He just needs to not passively play the martyr.  He can do this and I bet it will get WAY better soon!

DH can be maddeningly passive. He seems to go along with what other people want and to accept whatever he gets rather than self-advocating for his own needs. He doesn't want to make waves or do anything that might upset someone. He takes on way too much responsibility for other people's emotions. The irony of accepting whatever he gets is that he puts out the vibe that he isn't worth more. And if he puts out that vibe, then people may treat him that way. Deep down, he wants more, but he's terrified to ask for it. It's a self-perpetuating problem. He wants desperately to be noticed (loved), but his sense of self-worth is so low. 

Ironically, he has been incredibly supportive of me as I have worked on developing my own shiny spine. I think it made a real impression on him when I pointed out the inconsistency in his response to my family's behavior and his response to Rob's behavior.

In any case, I agree with you that it could be very beneficial to have that discussion with the boys. It may be upsetting to them to hear it, but it also could open up a world of understanding between them. DH would have to let go of his fear to take that step. I'm with you: I think he CAN do it. The question is whether he will.

[Winterlight]

I think it's reasonable to start saying, "So what are you going to do about it?" rather than listening to him grizzle on. He can take steps here, and if he's not going to, then I would not be willing to listen to him complain.

[NyaChan]

I know it isn't the proper way, but I probably would've blurted it all out already (don't have a lot of self control when I sense an injustice is being done) when Rob made a comment like that.  It isn't that giving money entitles your husband to a relationship at all, but the sneers that are bad enough to begin with take on dagger-like sharpness when you put it in that context.

[ellebelle]

just another thought OP,

If your DH is that passive and allows everyone (not just Rob) to walk all over him, could it be that Rob finds that alone off-putting? If Rob doesn't know the truth and only sees one perspective but after 13 years your DH has never corrected it, I can foresee that telling the truth now might not have the reaction your DH might hope for. If I were Rob, this truth telling would make me upset as well in that you (DH) allowed me to think incorrectly for so many years and would see that passivity as a major weakness.

I'm not implying that Rob would be right to express these feelings in a rude way, but I do want to provide a possible perspective that may arise from years of passive behavior. I personally struggle with respecting people and being around people who let others walk all over them.

I do hope that Rob can get his head out of his rear and that your DH can stand up for himself and be honest with his son - honesty is important to a solid family relationship.

*Corrected for bad spelling and typos

[Kaypeep]

OP- I think you have some good plans and I hope they work so that your DH is not so unhappy.  I just have one other thought.  Can DH make a plan with his son where it's just the two of them?  Does all socializing have to be with couples?  Perhaps after a weekend of being "on" to socialize with the other families both of them are wiped out and that's why you guys get short shrift.  If DH wants a better relationship with his son perhaps he should just do some things with him one on one.  Invite him to a sports bar to watch the game on Sunday afternoon.  Buy tix and invite him to go see a game in person.  Leave the wives out of it.  It would give both men a chance to speak openly or just get used to enjoying eachother's company without having to perhaps act a bit differently because of spouses or other relatives around.  If they can connect one on one then maybe his son will like that, and not blow off his dad so much.

[Coley]

OP- I think you have some good plans and I hope they work so that your DH is not so unhappy.  I just have one other thought.  Can DH make a plan with his son where it's just the two of them? Does all socializing have to be with couples?  Perhaps after a weekend of being "on" to socialize with the other families both of them are wiped out and that's why you guys get short shrift.  If DH wants a better relationship with his son perhaps he should just do some things with him one on one.  Invite him to a sports bar to watch the game on Sunday afternoon.  Buy tix and invite him to go see a game in person.  Leave the wives out of it.  It would give both men a chance to speak openly or just get used to enjoying eachother's company without having to perhaps act a bit differently because of spouses or other relatives around.  If they can connect one on one then maybe his son will like that, and not blow off his dad so much.

Funny you would mention this. I've been thinking the same thing. DH embraced the idea of initiating plans with Rob and Michelle; however, I also know that it probably won't happen unless I prod him to do it. It would be entirely possible for him to make plans with just Rob. I can't remember the last time that happened. In fact, I'm not sure they've done anything just the two of them in many years. I will prod DH in that direction.

[TootsNYC]

One random thought--I think if parents want to be someone that their grown children will seek out to spend time with, they need to be "enjoyable people to spend time with."

Not necessarily great buddies, etc. But *all* of us, no matter what our relationship, spend time with people we want to spend time with.

So DH may have to "woo" Rob. Seek him out for things he's interested in. (Rob likes one particular music style? DH should invite him to go to a concert in that genre. / Rob plays golf? DH should suggest they go golfing.)

And then when they're together, basically DH will need to do the old "teenage girl trying to get a guy to be interested in her" conversational trick. Ask questions to get him talking about himself, be very interested in him and his life, etc. And be enjoyable to be around.  On the second visit, remember and mention stuff Rob talked about in the first visit. Etc.

[TurtleDove]

I think TootsNYC is on to something.  I can understand that the DH would be sulky and upset when he finally gets the scraps of time Rob gives him, but that will backfire.  I hope DH can buck up and show Rob he wants to be (and is) a value add in his life!