DS stood up for a smaller boy-what should I do (if anything)?

[*inviteseller]

We'll have to just disagree then. In my experience "two for flinching" is a very traditional, widespread game, often dealt by older kids upon younger ones. Its almost a right of passage. It hurts, but its not the same as being beaten up - if the big kids wanted to just beat the younger one up they would, this game is a weird way older kids help younger ones learn to toughen up; its usually done to a younger kid the older ones like. Older brothers for example (seriously allolder brothers I knew growing up, my own included) do this to their younger siblings, older cousins to younger cousins, etc. Heck Bart Simpson has done this to Lisa.

If it is a "rite of passage", it's a daft one, IMHO. I don't know where you grew up, but no one I knew played this game, and certainly not my older brother, or older cousins. And "it's usually done to kids the older ones like", that's not a convincing arguement to my mind. If you like someone you don't bully them.

POD...I have been on this earth for more years than I usually admit to and I have an older brother who did mess with me as a kid (spiders  aaauugghhh), but physical violence?  No, and no one I knew was ok with a rite of passage that was violent.  Using the excuse of 'rite of passage' to ok violence towards a smaller, younger child isn't right, no matter how much you try to spin it.

[RebeccainGA]

While I agree that some degree of rough play is normal among peers - my DD and her male friends - she was the only female body, but was/is tougher and more aggressive than many boys - did this sort of thing interminably, especially when they thought adults weren't watching; this isn't among peers, this is between a gang of older boys and a younger, more vulnerable one. Frankly, this is "Lord of the Flies" behavior - and even if in some cultures it's seen as OK, I am of the option that it is ripe for deselection.

DD having been in judo in middle school, I'd say that the kids either need to be told that you're going to tell their sensei/instructor, or (as her teachers told us) need to be told that THEY need to tell their instructors before you do. Martial arts training, in every dojo I've ever encountered (even those in film, short of the Cobra Kais in The Karate Kid) this would result in a lot of boring, physical labor (the judo dojo's parking lot was swept with hand brooms and the floors polished with rags) or some other form of mindful punishment.

Your DS sounds like exactly the kind of kid I wanted to raise - kind, quick to act for others when possible, and mindful of his duty to protect those that can't protect themselves. My DD learned this early, too, and I'd like to think she's a pretty awesome person.

[cwm]

Congrats to your DS! It's never hard standing up to a group of kids for any reason, especially if they're picking on someone.

I'd let Bobby's mother know in a general sense. Like "Oh, Bobby came over the other day, DS brought him to our place when things started getting a bit rough out in the common area." Nothing specific, nothing mentioned about the other boys yet, but that way she can be on the lookout for it.

Honestly, I'm of a divided mind about the boys. It could have been a one-off incident, in which case someone standing up to them might stop it. It might be something more. I wouldn't do anything yet, just wait and see. If it continues, try to find their parents and let them know. If it doesn't, then don't worry too much about it.

[PurpleFrog]

First before you do anything else give DS a hug, pick up your purse and buy that boy an icecream. Secondly, I'd mention it to Bobby mum, not as a huge deal just as a heads up, thirdly, a big purlple froggy high five to DS and anther icecream, standing up to bullies and defending someone smalller and younger is a double ice cream day.

[Eden]

I'd stay out of it at this point unless it continues or escalates.

[Arrynne]

I don't agree. I might feel differently if it was a game where ALL the boys took turns trying not to flinch, but if Bobby was the only "flincher" then that sounds to me like an excuse to hit Bobby under the guise of a "game." Also, I think "friendly roughhousing" is between equals, not between a number of older boys and one younger one.

This.  A bunch of age-mates doing this to one-another is fine. As a female I don't understand the appeal, but to each his own.   However, this is unacceptable behavior from older, stronger children to a weaker one. 

[NyaChan]

Also interesting is that there didn't seem to be any indication that they intended to give Bobby a shot at switching places in the game.

[m2kbug]

I would tell Bobby's mom what's going with these other kids, just for her information.  I don't know how far I would go in figuring who these other parents are and contacting them at this point.  DS sounds like a smart cookie, and Bobby has someone a little bit older and wiser covering his back and he's learning.  I would probably just try to keep these kids from playing together or make sure they know when to walk away when things get too rough.

One thing about kids is they have to learn boundaries and social cues.  It starts out fun until someone starts getting annoyed.  They need to recognize when to stop.  This punching game could be fun and silly until their play starts getting too rough or say no.  DS seems to see this already, but Bobby notsomuch.   

If these other boys are just rotten to the core, you should just keep DS away from them entirely and definitely let Bobby's parents know what's going on.  If these kids are just roughhousing and getting a little out of control, I really have no issues telling someone else's kid to knock it off, and I think you're fine in doing this yourself, and continue to do what you're doing with your son.  If these boys are a continued problem, they really shouldn't be hanging out together at all.   

[TootsNYC]

I think you already declared a course of action.

You said, "If I hear of any more punching games, I'm going to go to your parents."

I think you should stick to that.

I know that was instinctive, and sort of a cultural phrase we hear, but I think it's actually appropriate.

If you go to their parents now, you become a completely untrustworthy person, and heck, they might as well have a punching game after all.

These kids have gotten a big message--from one of their peers, which is pretty powerful; and from you, which is less so 'cause you're an adult--so let them have a chance to react to it.

And for most of the rest of what I think, I like m2kbug's post in all ways.

[pierrotlunaire0]

I find it telling it that it was a kid who thought they were going too far and stopped them. This wasn't an over-concerned parent interfering with kids just being kids. One of their peers felt they were out of line and put an end to it. I'm not going to second guess him.

This is an excellent point.  And I am applauding your son for stepping up and doing the right thing.

[Momiitz]

My husband teaches martial arts and would defiantly want to know about this kind of behavior from any of his students. My husband would keep it anonymous and would setup one or two weeks worth of lessons that would teach that this type of game was not okay.  He would not single anybody out. Anti bullying, respect, and protecting those that are weaker would be the life lessons taught.

[GreenEyedHawk]

"Two for flinching" never involved poking someone in the eye.  You feigned a punch (usually in the arm, maybe the stomach) and if the person you lunged at flinched, they ended up taking two punches.  There was no eye-poking involved.  And either way, it wasn't common when I was a kid.  Rough housing was ok, hitting was not.

[Margo]

I think you already declared a course of action.

You said, "If I hear of any more punching games, I'm going to go to your parents."

I think you should stick to that.

I know that was instinctive, and sort of a cultural phrase we hear, but I think it's actually appropriate.

If you go to their parents now, you become a completely untrustworthy person, and heck, they might as well have a punching game after all.

These kids have gotten a big message--from one of their peers, which is pretty powerful; and from you, which is less so 'cause you're an adult--so let them have a chance to react to it.

I agree.

You've also sent a strong message to your son, and to Bobbie, that you are a safe person to come to and that you have their backs.
If you see Bobbie you can ask him whether he would like you to speak to his parents, and you can let him know you are willing to speak to the other boys' parents / teachers if he wants you to.

You can also encourage your son to let you know if he witnesses anthing further.

[TootsNYC]

You've also sent a strong message to your son, and to Bobbie, that you are a safe person to come to and that you have their backs.

You know, I think this is an important point.

If you don't to the parents, you'll have said to Bobby and your son that you have their backs, you aren't necessarily going to make an oversize drama about everything.

Kids don't trust grownups who overreact.

[EllenS]

Kids don't trust grownups who overreact.

Agree.  There were a lot of things I never told my mom about, because I knew her reaction/escalation would be worse than just putting up with the situation or dealing with it myself.