Author Topic: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35  (Read 6523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bijou

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12962
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2013, 07:52:15 PM »
Whether or not your DD was there is beside the point.  She was not involved and should not have been pulled into it by the teacher.  The teacher should not involve a student in a disciplinary action being given to another student.  Not only was the teacher wrong but the office staff was also wrong in giving the slips to your daughter.  If this is their policy, you might want to talk to them about changing it. 
As for your daughter picking up the apples, it probably wouldn't have hurt her to do so in the interest of saving someone an injury.
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.

AuntyEm

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 527
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2013, 08:11:39 PM »
I too agree with Zizi-K and think that absent child abuse or malicious intent, teachers needs support from the parents.  I can't imagine how hard it must be dealing with tween girl pranks on a daily basis.

I also can't see how  jumping to the defense of your daughter in this circumstance can be in any way beneficial to any of the parties involved.  I am dismayed that someone else said that a 12 year old should refuse their teacher's instructions.

Salvage3

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1577
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2013, 08:19:58 PM »
According to a friend who is on a school janitorial staff, lunchrooms are actually pretty clean.  Most kids will pick up things or call a spill or safety hazard to the attention of a staff member.  I really believe that your daughter should have either picked up the apple slices or asked someone to do so.  That being said, I don't think the teacher was out of line at all.  She may have done this simply because your daughter was at hand, or she may have done so as reinforcement of the idea there are consequences to actions.  I do agree with one prior poster that, if your daughter is upset about this, she --not you --would be okay in asking the teacher to have a discussion about it.

TeamBhakta

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2607
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 08:20:11 PM »
I'm distracted by the fact that those kids think wasting food, creating a potential slip hazard & disobeying a teacher = funny prank  ??? Not great "friends" for her to be around

KB

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2013, 09:27:05 PM »
My feeling was that the teacher specifically chose DD because she knew (after being told by the others) that DD was not involved and thus the teacher was not letting any of the perpetrators out of her sight. She could also tell them off without DD having to hear it/feel uncomfortable at seeing her friends getting lectured.

I would worry that, if the OP said anything to the school, it would be seen as undermining the teacher's authority, and particularly doing so in an incident that is probably over and done with. Yes, if DD is still upset/her group of friends ostracises her, that would be the time I would talk to the school, but about the fall-out rather than about the incident itself.

Just my $0.02.

oopsie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2013, 11:44:45 PM »
OP here!

Thank you all very much for your feedback. 

A little update:

I spoke to DD and discussed with her the possibility that she could, in the future, be perceived to be guilty by association so it would be her responsibility to not only not partake in the act but also to discourage such behaviour. I can certainly appreciate the teacher's frustration in this situation and I think she was justified in assigning detention to those involved.

However, I still do not think it is a good idea for a teacher to involve a student in the punishment of their peers just as I feel it would be inappropriate for an employer to involve an employee with disciplinary action against their colleagues. For example, if a manager asked me to go to HR to pick up a document with which they were going to write up one of my colleagues, I would be very uncomfortable/reluctant especially if instructed to do so right in front of the colleague in question. This may have been for practicality purposes but it's still just so...icky.

That said, I do agree that the best course of action is to respect the teacher's authority and to comply with their request (as long as it doesn't involve abuse, etc.) but I would certainly hope that the teacher would be receptive to discussing the issue with the student in private if necessary. Unfortunately, this is not always the case (speaking about people in general, not teachers in particular).

In any case, DD and I both agree that this is not an issue worth bothering about any further (i.e. we're both over it, life's too short...it's the weekend!!)

Cheers!

CakeEater

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2675
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2013, 12:10:03 AM »
OP here!


However, I still do not think it is a good idea for a teacher to involve a student in the punishment of their peers just as I feel it would be inappropriate for an employer to involve an employee with disciplinary action against their colleagues. For example, if a manager asked me to go to HR to pick up a document with which they were going to write up one of my colleagues, I would be very uncomfortable/reluctant especially if instructed to do so right in front of the colleague in question. This may have been for practicality purposes but it's still just so...icky.

I'm glad you're planning to let it go.

Another teacher here, and it wouldn't have occurred to me in a million years that sending your DD to get the forms would feel like a punishment to her. Otherwise, it would have been another student who then would have known the situation as well.


Allyson

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1966
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2013, 02:10:02 AM »
I think my opinion would be based on what is commonly done when a student gets detention. If generally, when someone gets detention, the slips are brought by the teacher after class, or some other thing, then I think sending your daughter wasn't too cool. If the usual situation when someone gets detention is to send a nearby student, then I don't think it's a problem regardless of whether your daughter was there or friends with them.

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21428
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2013, 03:09:47 AM »
I guess I really don't see a detention slip as "the punishment".  It is a notice, frequequently to parents, to they know when the punishment is taking place and can plan accordingly. But actually going to detention and serving the time is the punishment and DD would have nothing to do with that.

jellyjar

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2013, 08:44:15 AM »
I also don't think that retrieving the detention slips would make her a part of the "punishment".  They are just slips of paper.  She was already involved in their punishment since she was a part of the group.  It wasn't like it was confidential either.  In the end, it is just detention.  I doubt her friends were blaming her or thinking she was somehow aiding the teacher in punishing them.  If they do, then they are the wrong crowd to hang around with (and sound like it now anyway).  I wouldn't reinforce the idea that obeying her teacher is somehow wrong. It fosters disrespect to me somehow and the idea that it is "us" against the "teachers".  She just happened to be the student there with the group and was the innocent one.  Someone needed to get the slips is all.

sunnygirl

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 262
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2013, 09:40:47 AM »
I think my opinion would be based on what is commonly done when a student gets detention. If generally, when someone gets detention, the slips are brought by the teacher after class, or some other thing, then I think sending your daughter wasn't too cool. If the usual situation when someone gets detention is to send a nearby student, then I don't think it's a problem regardless of whether your daughter was there or friends with them.
POD. At my school (granted in the 90s) it was the norm for students to be sent on whatever small errands the teacher needed doing - taking the register to the office, or collecting things from the staff room. If that doesn't happen at the OP's daughter's school and the teacher was doing it to make a point, that's different.

A.P. Wulfric

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 905
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2013, 09:49:23 AM »
It's still normal at my school. I am constantly asking kids to grab a paper out of the printer, look for a lost book in a number of rooms, ask the office for something, send a note to another teacher-etc. 

We don't have detention slips, but I have written a short note to the office explaining a situation (folding it and stapling it!) and asking a kid to deliver it. Most often, they have no idea what's its about and just like to run errands.  Being that this was the cafe, I'm sure the teacher didn't have the necessary materials as she/he might in the classroom.

I'd let it go, and hopefully all the kids involved or associated learn a lesson. Lessons are good-that's life. :)

bloo

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1297
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2013, 10:48:56 AM »

However, I still do not think it is a good idea for a teacher to involve a student in the punishment of their peers just as I feel it would be inappropriate for an employer to involve an employee with disciplinary action against their colleagues. For example, if a manager asked me to go to HR to pick up a document with which they were going to write up one of my colleagues, I would be very uncomfortable/reluctant especially if instructed to do so right in front of the colleague in question. This may have been for practicality purposes but it's still just so...icky.

I'm glad things worked out, OP!

However, in office situations it's definitely inappropriate to discipline a subordinate in front of their colleagues. I'm more iffy with students because sometimes it may be beneficial for the students seeing the disciplining.

A closer scenario is one I experienced as an adult:

We used to be super close to DH's cousin (Lulu) and Lulu's DH (Ozzie). We'd go over to each other's houses all the time and we were like a second set of parents to their little ones. We were both poor young couples together so we didn't go out much together. Our eyes were opened to their behavior outside the house, for sure. We decided to catch a movie with Lulu, Ozzie and another of DH's cousins, Sean and his wife, Marie. Ozzie & Sean snuck beer into the theater with them and then thought it'd be great fun rolling the bottles under the chairs on the cement floor during the movie.

They annoyed the other movie-goers and actually started mouthing off to them. My DH and I were sitting in the same row but on the other end and were surprised and annoyed by their behavior. An usher was called in to deal with them and I don't know what was said between them, but when we left the auditorium, the police were waiting for them in the lobby. I went to join them (why? I hate drama!) and my DH dragged me away from them, thoroughly ticked off at them and told me that they could clean up their own mess. Now Lulu and Marie were just as annoyed at their behavior but were also treated like criminals because they were with their husbands.

We waited by their vehicle (they were our ride) steaming and when we all piled into their SUV, Ozzie thought it'd be great fun to hang out his window and mouth off to the lady Sheriff from across the parking lot, who then jumped into her car and pulled us over and read him the riot act and let him know she'd be in her rights to make us all get out of the car and show her our ID's and to detain us for 'a long time'. She even threatened to have Lulu, who was driving, take down all our contact information (shades of your DD's dilemma). Which Lulu would have done. So would I. You think it's tough saying 'no' to a teacher? Try saying it to a furious sheriff packing a gun, a baton, handcuffs, pepper spray and a tazor. 

Lulu, Marie, DH & I were furious at Ozzie & Sean, not the police officer. I truly believe your DD should be most upset with her friends, not the teacher...if she wants to be upset at anybody. Many people have a 'lie down with dogs, get up with fleas' mentality and your DD will want to keep her eyes open to how their behavior reflects on her. I'm truly glad that they did try to spare your DD punishment, though. Maybe they'll curb their behavior. It's much better to learn these lessons while they're small and the punishments are minor. When one is older, judges and police officers might not be so lenient.

Best wishes! :) 

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21428
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends - Update #35
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2013, 11:10:41 AM »
Actually, I can see a work situation where employyes created a hazardous situation and their driends were still required to write an incident report, detailing what they witnessed.  They wouldn't be excused just because they were friends.  My mom was a nurse in a workplace where there were occassional crush, burn or even ampustaion injuries so the idea of people creating potential injury conditions at work, or cowworkers getting froggy because the boss asks them to go get the paperwork to deal with said behavior would be even more mind blowing for me.

PeterM

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3321
Re: Teacher sends DD to get detention slips for her friends
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2013, 06:08:07 PM »
2. Unless your daughter was saying no don't do that someone could get hurt, and trying to pick up the apples - she should have been given the same punishment as her friends. Sitting by and watching means encouraging and that is equal punishment in my class. You have two choices stand up for what is right or you are part of the crime.

I gotta say, this would not have imparted the desired lesson to my or my peers in high school. We generally didn't care about what anyone else was doing, but if I got punished simply for knowing about something fairly innocuous and not snitching I'd have been extremely tempted to join in next time. If you're going to do the time, might as well do the crime.