Author Topic: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)  (Read 217652 times)

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Slartibartfast

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #855 on: April 07, 2014, 12:34:54 PM »
A musician responds to a restaurant's online ad for local bands to play.  While it does not explicitly say that it is not a paying gig, no mention of compensation is noted in the ad:  http://i.imgur.com/YZzTBKy.jpg

This felt unnecessarily snarky to me.  Yes, established bands will usually get paid for gigs like that - but there's also a pretty solid tradition of open mic nights and such, where musicians *don't* get paid and *do* perform for free in the hope of selling some CDs and building an audience.  I can understand the snark if the restaurant specifically contacted the musician, but not if they just put out an open call.

I hope you were referring to the ad and not to my comments.  I'm not sure how I was snarky in my post :-\

I agree that the response to the Craigslist ad was a bit much... but there could be a backstory or a history that we're not aware of (even though it's a public forum like Craigslist).

Oops, sorry, yes!  I meant the article, not you  :-[

artk2002

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #856 on: April 07, 2014, 05:45:02 PM »
A musician responds to a restaurant's online ad for local bands to play.  While it does not explicitly say that it is not a paying gig, no mention of compensation is noted in the ad:  http://i.imgur.com/YZzTBKy.jpg

This felt unnecessarily snarky to me.  Yes, established bands will usually get paid for gigs like that - but there's also a pretty solid tradition of open mic nights and such, where musicians *don't* get paid and *do* perform for free in the hope of selling some CDs and building an audience.  I can understand the snark if the restaurant specifically contacted the musician, but not if they just put out an open call.

I hope you were referring to the ad and not to my comments.  I'm not sure how I was snarky in my post :-\

I agree that the response to the Craigslist ad was a bit much... but there could be a backstory or a history that we're not aware of (even though it's a public forum like Craigslist).

I don't think that the response was snarky. In fact, if anything it was far too mild. There's a big, big problem of artists being asked to do stuff for free in the name of "exposure." Take the issues in this thread of hobby crafters being asked to do stuff and now imagine that it's your profession that you're being asked to give away for free. The original ad wasn't for an open-mic night, it was someone looking for a professional to give away their services in the name of "exposure." Tremendously insulting. That's your back story -- it's one that comes up again and again. Pretty much every professional musician that I know has had that kind of request. Other artists, too.

"Exposure" isn't valuable compensation.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Jocelyn

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #857 on: April 07, 2014, 07:02:59 PM »
I think the problem with 'exposure', is whether it leads to any career- advancing option. I might like the band a lot, but I don't hire bands, nor do I know anyone who hires bands. I might go back more often to listen, but even so, if they're not getting paid, how does that help them? I really doubt that a restauranteur who's getting the band for free is going to start paying them unless the place is packed with customers who say that the only reason they're there is for the band. That might work with a nightclub...but there's other things that might be the explanation for increased business, such as an improved menu, or the restaurant itself getting more exposure.

Teenyweeny

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #858 on: April 07, 2014, 07:13:34 PM »
Now, I can see the benefit of performing for free if you're a band who's never played any gigs before. Then, at least you can get a couple of shows under your belt and you have something to say to club/bar managers when they ask where you've played previously.

HOWEVER, the people who want free work from creative types almost never want that sort of standard. They want professional quality. They just don't want to pay for it, and they think that their dubious offer of 'publicity' should be payment enough.




Thipu1

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #859 on: April 07, 2014, 07:34:32 PM »
Back in the 1970s something like that happened to a friend of mine.  She was starting work as a free-lance designer and had the opportunity to design a shop window for a major retailer in Manhattan. 

She was given a choice.  She could either have her name displayed in the window as the designer or she could get paid for her work.

Some choice.

Coruscation

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #860 on: April 07, 2014, 07:59:41 PM »
I think that's partly it but labour is a big part too. The cloth only had to be cheaper than the made item. The housewife's labour was free. If it took 20 hours to knit a sweater and you only saved 20% of the cost, you were still ahead, especially if you were living very close to poverty.

Sometimes making it yourself *is* cheaper.  I keep telling people that 'Sewing for ME is cheap.  Sewing for YOU is not.' 

I found a wonderful linen blend a couple of years ago, that I LOVE, for just about $3 a yard.  I bought 42 yards of it.  I make myself pants out of it, loose-fitting pants with elastic waist and pockets.  They wear pretty well for linen, look really nice, and wash well.  (They're not tailored.  I don't wear tailored anything).
So basically, they cost me $6 a pair, for the fabric and 2 hours of labor.  At my size, finding pants with pockets AND a long enough inseam for less than $50 is difficult.

And that linen is now $8 a yard.

Your calculations work because you didn't account for any labour for yourself, which was my point.

VorFemme

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #861 on: April 07, 2014, 10:04:15 PM »
I think that's partly it but labour is a big part too. The cloth only had to be cheaper than the made item. The housewife's labour was free. If it took 20 hours to knit a sweater and you only saved 20% of the cost, you were still ahead, especially if you were living very close to poverty.

Sometimes making it yourself *is* cheaper.  I keep telling people that 'Sewing for ME is cheap.  Sewing for YOU is not.' 

I found a wonderful linen blend a couple of years ago, that I LOVE, for just about $3 a yard.  I bought 42 yards of it.  I make myself pants out of it, loose-fitting pants with elastic waist and pockets.  They wear pretty well for linen, look really nice, and wash well.  (They're not tailored.  I don't wear tailored anything).
So basically, they cost me $6 a pair, for the fabric and 2 hours of labor.  At my size, finding pants with pockets AND a long enough inseam for less than $50 is difficult.

And that linen is now $8 a yard.

Your calculations work because you didn't account for any labour for yourself, which was my point.

If your choice is spending two hours cutting & sewing to get a garment that FITS or spend three hours shopping & trying on things to see if you can find something that FITS - then using the time to sew is cheaper in the long run.  It also causes a lot less aggravation and will not raise your blood pressure (unless the sewing machine breaks in the middle of the project - don't ask - it would require words not allowed on this forum to convey my feelings on the matter). 

I learned that it was easier to make three swimsuits for DD in high school (swim team) to get enough support & coverage for her practice suits - then be able to whip out another one or two quickly during the season, once swimsuits of any kind were no longer being sold in stores (October through January) in less than two hours.  It was a two hour drive to get to the closest Speedo swimsuit place and back home - they didn't carry suits in the correct size - they were apparently just not made for busty mermaids on the swim team.
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

LadyJaneinMD

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #862 on: April 08, 2014, 09:13:54 AM »
I remembered a new one.   I used to have this roommate, Fran, who loved that my sewing.  However, she used to try and volunteer me for all sorts of things (which didn't take).  One of the funniest was the time she flew home and met a rather large young lady on the plane.  This young lady was very poor and didn't even have a winter coat.  Fran wanted me to make a coat for her.  The problem was, she had nothing but the woman's first name, no other contact information, and had no clue of her size.  She just kept saying, "She's really big", like that was a size.   (for the record, both Fran and I are also 'really big', but *I* know that 'big' covers a lot of different sizes.  Fran apparently doesn't, in spite of being a clothes horse).

I finally found a really easy make-it-yourself pattern on the Internet and gave it to Fran, telling her that this was so easy, even she could do it.   The coat never got made.

Redneck Gravy

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #863 on: April 08, 2014, 11:45:47 AM »
I crocheted myself a "foot of the bed" blanket years ago.  It fits across my queen size bed and comes up about 1/3 of the bed to keep my feet warm.   

It took about 60-80 hours of my labor and the simple washable yarn cost about $35  (It will probably last forever)

My MIL asked if she bought the yarn would I make her one out of some type of cashmere yarn.  I said sure it will take this many skeins...  MIL was stunned at the cost of the yarn and said never mind.

Agreeing with all the other pp, people have no idea what things cost to make - not counting the labor.   

alkira6

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #864 on: April 08, 2014, 11:59:00 AM »
Yeah, I laugh at what people think something costs vs. what it actually does cost.  A friend lost her mind years ago when I told her what I charged to do the beading on a wedding dress.  The dress was purchased, the beading design was a peacock with paisley design embellishments on the train and around the skirt that took 15 different types of beads and over 40 hours of painstaking work.  Apparently I should have just charged her $50, because "it's just beads".

Yeah.  Also, first and last time I did that.  That was in 1998 and I don't think my eyes or fingers have recovered.

POF

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #865 on: April 08, 2014, 12:01:59 PM »
I would love to see  a pic of this

alkira6

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #866 on: April 08, 2014, 12:10:29 PM »
I would love to see  a pic of this

So would I  ;D  .  I have almost no pictures from before 2006 and very few of those afterward that weren't digital.  The gown, along with the marriage, are long gone, and I was friends with the groom rather than the bride, so no recourse there.

knitwicca

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #867 on: April 08, 2014, 03:06:34 PM »
Quote
Yeah, I laugh at what people think something costs vs. what it actually does cost.

Several years ago, I knitted a sleeveless top for my sister-in-law. She chose the color and was thrilled with the finished garment.
My mother saw it and wanted the same top in another color.  I knitted it and mailed it to her.  A few weeks later, I called to be certain Mother got the top. She had. And threw it away because "it was just a piece of home made cr*p". 
"Ummm, no....it was a handcrafted, custom-fit top in the fiber, style and shade you requested."


I have a co-worker who is an absolute joy to work with.  She also was a helicopter mechanic while serving in the military and suffered frostbite on her hands.
In the winter, our offices can be quite chilly.  CW's hands would hurt due to her history. It was difficult for her to work at all.
I knitted a pair of fingerless gloves of a wool blend in her favorite color. She loves those gloves and locks them in her desk when she is not in the office.

Co-worker #2 has the cubicle next to CW. She saw the fingerless gloves and stated her own color preferences for herself, her teen-aged daughter and her mother.  Except she also wanted intarsia of a certain style on one pair, beading on another and a mix of cables and lace on the third.  And they needed to be made of a type of wool she had heard of but never actually touched.
I smiled and told her "I am happy to teach you to knit. My next beginner's class begins on X date at X time at X location. The cost is $XX per person for the month of classes.  I will give you a supply list when you pay the tuition."    >:D

And, for the record, CW#2 is the reason CW has to keep her gloves locked up....they keep getting "borrowed"




And people wonder why I don't knit "on demand"

jedikaiti

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #868 on: April 08, 2014, 03:09:35 PM »
I am VERY happy that the few folks who have asked me to knit things have asked for simple things (hackey sacks when I was learning to knit spheres - I could knock those out in 2 hours while we're hanging out anyway), and/or have no problem hearing "Sure, but it might be a year or so - I have other projects on my docket already."
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goldilocks

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Re: But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)
« Reply #869 on: April 08, 2014, 03:36:44 PM »
I thought I was immune to this, but apparently not.   I quilt and crochet, and I'm actually always looking for someone to make something for!   (family and close friends only).

So when my stepdaughter wanted a quilt I was happy to oblige.  She has seen me make quilts before and knows that I hand quilt, so it can take months to make one. 


She picked out and paid for most of the fabric.   I've pieced the top and have the quilt mounted to start quilting (I do this while watching TV).   then she says - it would be finished much faster if you machine sewed.

I replied - Yes, but I hand-sew because I enjoy it and find it relaxing.
She says - Machine sewing is relaxing.

I replied - really?   Because I've never seen you run a sewing machine and didnt even know you had one.

She dropped it then.   I hope I'm not in for endless comments about the time this quilt takes.

BTW - my sewing machine could not begin to do something like machine quilting.