But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)

[BarensMom]

^Somehow, I think you have managed quite nicely without "friend".

Sadly, I'd have to agree.  I spent ten years thinking that this middle-aged man (then in his 30s but now in his 40s) was going to grow up, but I realized, about six years ago, that that wasn't going to happen (he is the epitome of Special Snowflake).  Oh, well!

I don't want to drag up old pain, but I'm curious as to why/how he thought you should hold him up as more important than your own fiance.

Oh, no worries -- no old-pain-dragging here.  I sent you a PM so I don't derail the thread.

Now, you've got me curious, too!  If I grovel politely, will you send me the PM as well?  Please? (grovel, grovel)

[SoCalVal]

^Somehow, I think you have managed quite nicely without "friend".

Sadly, I'd have to agree.  I spent ten years thinking that this middle-aged man (then in his 30s but now in his 40s) was going to grow up, but I realized, about six years ago, that that wasn't going to happen (he is the epitome of Special Snowflake).  Oh, well!

I don't want to drag up old pain, but I'm curious as to why/how he thought you should hold him up as more important than your own fiance.

Oh, no worries -- no old-pain-dragging here.  I sent you a PM so I don't derail the thread.

Now, you've got me curious, too!  If I grovel politely, will you send me the PM as well?  Please? (grovel, grovel)

Done. 

[jedikaiti]

Me? Please?

[MariaE]

Looks as if you may as well just post it here, or the thread will get derailed anyway with requests for PMs ... Besides, I'm curious too! Especially since I've had a "friend" think the same thing about me and my fiance.

[Barney girl]

The irony is that even the most beautiful paintings in the world require far more of what these people would call "craft" than "art." The Mona Lisa wouldn't be nearly as beautiful if Davinci hadn't mastered the craft of painting. Someone can have the most wonderful ideas, full of meaning, but if they lack the craft, those ideas will never see the light of day.

Last year, the Detroit Institute of Art had a Faberge exhibit, and I read an article in the local paper about it.  Towards the end of the article, the writer made a comment that all of this is not Great Art, like the Sistine Chapel.  They are just pretty things.

I was so angry, and convinced that the writer new nothing about art.  If I pick up my tea pot, which is a beautifully painted and glazed sky blue, and the handle curves just right in my hand, and it makes me smile every time I look at it: that is art.

Getting back to the thread topic, I had a friend who was constantly volunteering me to help people with their projects.  I was smarter than most people he knew, and that translates into expertise, doesn't it?  The last time he tried to volunteer me was for someone who wanted to create an app that would take your life experiences and write them out in such a way that you could get course credit at the school this person was attending.

Only problem was, this person knew next to nothing about computers.  Guess what?  Neither do I!  And I already have a job which eats up all my time and energy, so I don't care what kind of dollar signs you see at the end of your path, because I am not going down that path.

A few years ago I went to an exhibition of Durer's works which spoke of his being at the time of the change over from such things being considered a craft to their appreciation as art.

[SoCalVal]

^Somehow, I think you have managed quite nicely without "friend".

Sadly, I'd have to agree.  I spent ten years thinking that this middle-aged man (then in his 30s but now in his 40s) was going to grow up, but I realized, about six years ago, that that wasn't going to happen (he is the epitome of Special Snowflake).  Oh, well!

I don't want to drag up old pain, but I'm curious as to why/how he thought you should hold him up as more important than your own fiance.

Oh, no worries -- no old-pain-dragging here.  I sent you a PM so I don't derail the thread.

Me? Please?

Looks as if you may as well just post it here, or the thread will get derailed anyway with requests for PMs ... Besides, I'm curious too! Especially since I've had a "friend" think the same thing about me and my fiance.

Okay, as requested...

The answer you are looking for requires logic, and there is no logic here.  What happened is there was a festival he and other friends were attending with then-DF and me.  Friend, Friend2, then-DF and I were going to participate in an event at the festival.  At the last minute, then-DF was unable to participate so I made a faux-sad face at him (I really wasn't upset about then-DF not participating (he wasn't feeling well) and said I was sad that then-DF couldn't participate.  Friend overheard me, got a thunderous look on his face then said in a low tone only I could hear, "*I* am participating, and that's not good enough?!"  Unlike me, Friend was not kidding.  I, OTOH, was incredulous that it was an all-or-nothing situation for Friend -- I could only be happy because Friend was participating; I was not allowed to feel any sadness at all that then-DF was not going to be able to participate.  THAT is how Friend was TELLING me that he should be more important to me than then-DF (I know others could state that I could've been misinterpreting this response, but I have years of experience with Friend pulling this kind of stuff -- Friend definitely was PO'd and definitely felt I should not care that then-DF wasn't participating since Friend was, which "should be good enough" <-- direct quote from Friend).  I did later have a private chat with Friend about this because Friend insisted on taking me aside to have a go at me (yes, this is while we were still at the festival).  Should I mention that Friend was verbally abusive towards me for seven years so he was accustomed to me being cowed by him, rather than having the courage to stand up for myself? (I was still friends with him because I still "believed" in the "good" person he was -- something I think abuse victims often tell themselves in addition to blaming themselves for the abuse occurring).  I stood up for myself that day and let Friend know in no uncertain terms that I was marrying then-DF and that then-DF would ALWAYS come first where Friend was concerned.

Anyway, then-DF and Friend2 heard none of this exchange at the event or the rude aside I was forced to participate in a little later.  I told then-DF about both later -- actually, I ranted because I was so peeved.  That was the last time I saw and spoke to Friend (almost three years ago, I think) as I determined that action was the last straw after a few other really rude actions on his part that day so I needed to stop making any effort at continuing this friendship.

Please note this wasn't jealous suitor/former suitor behavior.  Friend feels everything in life should go exactly how he thinks it should be and that all other ways are wrong that do not match his viewpoint or preference.  Again, he is the epitome of "special."

Okay, going back to our scheduled topic --

When I was 21, I went through a phase when I was baking all the time.  I just did it for fun and gave away everything I made.  My mother said her coworkers were thrilled with my proceeds.  However, I didn't schedule any baking; I just baked when the mood struck me.  Occasionally, my mother would mention her coworkers were asking about my baked goods so I'd comply and bake cookies.  One day, Mom came home and said she promised her coworkers I'd bake a cake for their potluck.    I was tired, had school stuff to do and didn't feel like it so I said no and that Mom could do it herself.  Mom pleaded with me.  I was peeved.  I went ahead and baked a bundt and did nothing further.  I remember Mom made a glaze to pour over the cake then brought it to work.  I think I did continue to bake when I felt like it and give my baked goods to Mom to bring to work, but Mom never promised ME to bake for someone else ever again.

A few years later, for a company potluck, my coworker promised her daughter would bake a cake for us.  I, remembering what my mother did to me years earlier, asked if she were sure since she hadn't checked with her daughter yet.  Coworker said there was no need as she was sure her daughter would be happy to bake that cake.  Come the potluck, Coworker showed up sans cake.  I think I might've asked Coworker about it, and she said her daughter was busy.  Thought so.  Coworker never volunteered her daughter to do anything for us again.

[Lynn2000]

Ah yes, the "voluntold"... I remember once in high school a fellow student came up to me and said, "Hey, I was just at a meeting about School Event and I said you would do X at it." I replied, "Actually I'm not going to School Event." Cue much, "But-but-but-I said you'd do it!!" Shrug. "I won't be there." Felt good.

Sometimes I think it can be a fine line between "favors for a friend" and overstepping, though. Like, I have a friend who's trying to sell her house, and another friend (they know each other) who's a realtor--not anywhere near our area, though, so Realtor couldn't directly profit from selling the house, and anyway Seller is trying to do it on her own (which is a whole other issue). Sometimes I think, wouldn't it be great if they could get together, and Realtor could give Seller some tips--like, here's a good place to advertise, or don't have an open house at these hours, or make sure you ask potential buyers about X. Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation? For sure it could go too far, like if Seller wanted Realtor to advertise the house through her professional network (without chance of profiting) or give Seller advertising materials like signs.

What would be a good way to ask a friend, "How much professional advice would you be willing to give me as a favor, because we're friends?" I think it would be sad if a friend was too intimidated to ask me a few simple questions about something I'm known to have experience with, but at the same time, it is rude to make demands or press further than someone wants to go.

[Onyx_TKD]

Ah yes, the "voluntold"... I remember once in high school a fellow student came up to me and said, "Hey, I was just at a meeting about School Event and I said you would do X at it." I replied, "Actually I'm not going to School Event." Cue much, "But-but-but-I said you'd do it!!" Shrug. "I won't be there." Felt good.

Sometimes I think it can be a fine line between "favors for a friend" and overstepping, though. Like, I have a friend who's trying to sell her house, and another friend (they know each other) who's a realtor--not anywhere near our area, though, so Realtor couldn't directly profit from selling the house, and anyway Seller is trying to do it on her own (which is a whole other issue). Sometimes I think, wouldn't it be great if they could get together, and Realtor could give Seller some tips--like, here's a good place to advertise, or don't have an open house at these hours, or make sure you ask potential buyers about X. Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation? For sure it could go too far, like if Seller wanted Realtor to advertise the house through her professional network (without chance of profiting) or give Seller advertising materials like signs.

What would be a good way to ask a friend, "How much professional advice would you be willing to give me as a favor, because we're friends?" I think it would be sad if a friend was too intimidated to ask me a few simple questions about something I'm known to have experience with, but at the same time, it is rude to make demands or press further than someone wants to go.

RE: The 1st bolded question
IMO, yes, it would be wrong. Even though the seller's selling her own house isn't directly competing with the realtor's business due to location, it would still be asking the realtor to put in time and effort doing uncompensated consulting work. If she wanted the benefit of a realtor's experience, she should either hire a realtor or ask whether the friend could/would help her professionally (i.e., with a consulting fee).

RE: The 2nd bolded question
I don't think there's any polite way to ask. IMO your options are A) to mention what you're doing in conversation without hinting that you want help or B) to ask whether they'd be willing to help you as a paid professional and find out their rates. If you just mention it, then the friend has an opportunity to realize on their own that their expertise could be helpful and to offer help if they feel so moved. Likewise, if you ask about professional help, then they always have the option of offering free or heavily discounted help if they feel so moved.

[lady_disdain]

If they are friends, I would see no problem with inviting Realtor to dinner, explicitly saying that I would like to ask them questions about selling my house. I would also send Realtor some sort of thank you gift later (a bottle of wine or whatever they might prefer). If I were Realtor, I would certainly not mind the invitation and I would be more than willing to help. This is a huge financial transaction that few people have experience with. It is part of friendship, I believe, to help each other.

Of course, this is based on it really being a friendship (they do things together other than asking for help every time) and the fact that houses aren't sold every day. If it were something that happened often, then my answer would be different.

[TeamBhakta]

Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation?

It would be wrong. You're asking the agent friend to do free work for a random stranger.

[ladyknight1]

My DH and I each have a particular profession we have worked hard in to gain the knowledge and experience we have. We also have hobbies that we have spent decades on. We absolutely do not mind helping friends.

It begins to border on tedium when we are asked to help friend's relatives or other friends who we have never met. I think that is the fine line.

[weeblewobble]

DH made a new batch of bacon, smoked it Saturday morning, then packaged it up in the cooler while we went to pick up DS. We went by our friends BBQ restaurant, let them slice some of the bacon off the two chunks and cook it so they could try it. After getting the seal of approval, including a staffer that had been a bacon-hater prior, DH has decided to take orders for bacon, to be processed twice a month. All the people who had been clamoring for free bacon? Not one peep.

But he is getting orders from non-moochy people, right?  Because the thought of bacon just sitting around without people to love it, makes me sad.

[ladyknight1]

He is taking pre-orders only. That way he only buys the raw product he knows we will use, then will add more as needed.

[SoCalVal]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

[PastryGoddess]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

SoCalVal, are there any culinary schools near you?  You may want to call and see if you can take private lessons with an instructor or senior student. Chocolate classes should be easier to find than sugarcraft classes.  If I lived in the area, I'd give you my contact info.