But ... But ... It's Not Like It's Work! (Craft Freebies)

[FauxFoodist]

^Somehow, I think you have managed quite nicely without "friend".

Sadly, I'd have to agree.  I spent ten years thinking that this middle-aged man (then in his 30s but now in his 40s) was going to grow up, but I realized, about six years ago, that that wasn't going to happen (he is the epitome of Special Snowflake).  Oh, well!

I don't want to drag up old pain, but I'm curious as to why/how he thought you should hold him up as more important than your own fiance.

Oh, no worries -- no old-pain-dragging here.  I sent you a PM so I don't derail the thread.

Me? Please?

Looks as if you may as well just post it here, or the thread will get derailed anyway with requests for PMs ... Besides, I'm curious too! Especially since I've had a "friend" think the same thing about me and my fiance.

Okay, as requested...

The answer you are looking for requires logic, and there is no logic here.  What happened is there was a festival he and other friends were attending with then-DF and me.  Friend, Friend2, then-DF and I were going to participate in an event at the festival.  At the last minute, then-DF was unable to participate so I made a faux-sad face at him (I really wasn't upset about then-DF not participating (he wasn't feeling well) and said I was sad that then-DF couldn't participate.  Friend overheard me, got a thunderous look on his face then said in a low tone only I could hear, "*I* am participating, and that's not good enough?!"  Unlike me, Friend was not kidding.  I, OTOH, was incredulous that it was an all-or-nothing situation for Friend -- I could only be happy because Friend was participating; I was not allowed to feel any sadness at all that then-DF was not going to be able to participate.  THAT is how Friend was TELLING me that he should be more important to me than then-DF (I know others could state that I could've been misinterpreting this response, but I have years of experience with Friend pulling this kind of stuff -- Friend definitely was PO'd and definitely felt I should not care that then-DF wasn't participating since Friend was, which "should be good enough" <-- direct quote from Friend).  I did later have a private chat with Friend about this because Friend insisted on taking me aside to have a go at me (yes, this is while we were still at the festival).  Should I mention that Friend was verbally abusive towards me for seven years so he was accustomed to me being cowed by him, rather than having the courage to stand up for myself? (I was still friends with him because I still "believed" in the "good" person he was -- something I think abuse victims often tell themselves in addition to blaming themselves for the abuse occurring).  I stood up for myself that day and let Friend know in no uncertain terms that I was marrying then-DF and that then-DF would ALWAYS come first where Friend was concerned.

Anyway, then-DF and Friend2 heard none of this exchange at the event or the rude aside I was forced to participate in a little later.  I told then-DF about both later -- actually, I ranted because I was so peeved.  That was the last time I saw and spoke to Friend (almost three years ago, I think) as I determined that action was the last straw after a few other really rude actions on his part that day so I needed to stop making any effort at continuing this friendship.

Please note this wasn't jealous suitor/former suitor behavior.  Friend feels everything in life should go exactly how he thinks it should be and that all other ways are wrong that do not match his viewpoint or preference.  Again, he is the epitome of "special."

Okay, going back to our scheduled topic --

When I was 21, I went through a phase when I was baking all the time.  I just did it for fun and gave away everything I made.  My mother said her coworkers were thrilled with my proceeds.  However, I didn't schedule any baking; I just baked when the mood struck me.  Occasionally, my mother would mention her coworkers were asking about my baked goods so I'd comply and bake cookies.  One day, Mom came home and said she promised her coworkers I'd bake a cake for their potluck.    I was tired, had school stuff to do and didn't feel like it so I said no and that Mom could do it herself.  Mom pleaded with me.  I was peeved.  I went ahead and baked a bundt and did nothing further.  I remember Mom made a glaze to pour over the cake then brought it to work.  I think I did continue to bake when I felt like it and give my baked goods to Mom to bring to work, but Mom never promised ME to bake for someone else ever again.

A few years later, for a company potluck, my coworker promised her daughter would bake a cake for us.  I, remembering what my mother did to me years earlier, asked if she were sure since she hadn't checked with her daughter yet.  Coworker said there was no need as she was sure her daughter would be happy to bake that cake.  Come the potluck, Coworker showed up sans cake.  I think I might've asked Coworker about it, and she said her daughter was busy.  Thought so.  Coworker never volunteered her daughter to do anything for us again.

[Lynn2000]

Ah yes, the "voluntold"... I remember once in high school a fellow student came up to me and said, "Hey, I was just at a meeting about School Event and I said you would do X at it." I replied, "Actually I'm not going to School Event." Cue much, "But-but-but-I said you'd do it!!" Shrug. "I won't be there." Felt good.

Sometimes I think it can be a fine line between "favors for a friend" and overstepping, though. Like, I have a friend who's trying to sell her house, and another friend (they know each other) who's a realtor--not anywhere near our area, though, so Realtor couldn't directly profit from selling the house, and anyway Seller is trying to do it on her own (which is a whole other issue). Sometimes I think, wouldn't it be great if they could get together, and Realtor could give Seller some tips--like, here's a good place to advertise, or don't have an open house at these hours, or make sure you ask potential buyers about X. Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation? For sure it could go too far, like if Seller wanted Realtor to advertise the house through her professional network (without chance of profiting) or give Seller advertising materials like signs.

What would be a good way to ask a friend, "How much professional advice would you be willing to give me as a favor, because we're friends?" I think it would be sad if a friend was too intimidated to ask me a few simple questions about something I'm known to have experience with, but at the same time, it is rude to make demands or press further than someone wants to go.

[Onyx_TKD]

Ah yes, the "voluntold"... I remember once in high school a fellow student came up to me and said, "Hey, I was just at a meeting about School Event and I said you would do X at it." I replied, "Actually I'm not going to School Event." Cue much, "But-but-but-I said you'd do it!!" Shrug. "I won't be there." Felt good.

Sometimes I think it can be a fine line between "favors for a friend" and overstepping, though. Like, I have a friend who's trying to sell her house, and another friend (they know each other) who's a realtor--not anywhere near our area, though, so Realtor couldn't directly profit from selling the house, and anyway Seller is trying to do it on her own (which is a whole other issue). Sometimes I think, wouldn't it be great if they could get together, and Realtor could give Seller some tips--like, here's a good place to advertise, or don't have an open house at these hours, or make sure you ask potential buyers about X. Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation? For sure it could go too far, like if Seller wanted Realtor to advertise the house through her professional network (without chance of profiting) or give Seller advertising materials like signs.

What would be a good way to ask a friend, "How much professional advice would you be willing to give me as a favor, because we're friends?" I think it would be sad if a friend was too intimidated to ask me a few simple questions about something I'm known to have experience with, but at the same time, it is rude to make demands or press further than someone wants to go.

RE: The 1st bolded question
IMO, yes, it would be wrong. Even though the seller's selling her own house isn't directly competing with the realtor's business due to location, it would still be asking the realtor to put in time and effort doing uncompensated consulting work. If she wanted the benefit of a realtor's experience, she should either hire a realtor or ask whether the friend could/would help her professionally (i.e., with a consulting fee).

RE: The 2nd bolded question
I don't think there's any polite way to ask. IMO your options are A) to mention what you're doing in conversation without hinting that you want help or B) to ask whether they'd be willing to help you as a paid professional and find out their rates. If you just mention it, then the friend has an opportunity to realize on their own that their expertise could be helpful and to offer help if they feel so moved. Likewise, if you ask about professional help, then they always have the option of offering free or heavily discounted help if they feel so moved.

[lady_disdain]

If they are friends, I would see no problem with inviting Realtor to dinner, explicitly saying that I would like to ask them questions about selling my house. I would also send Realtor some sort of thank you gift later (a bottle of wine or whatever they might prefer). If I were Realtor, I would certainly not mind the invitation and I would be more than willing to help. This is a huge financial transaction that few people have experience with. It is part of friendship, I believe, to help each other.

Of course, this is based on it really being a friendship (they do things together other than asking for help every time) and the fact that houses aren't sold every day. If it were something that happened often, then my answer would be different.

[TeamBhakta]

Would it be wrong of Seller to ask Realtor for that kind of advice, without compensation?

It would be wrong. You're asking the agent friend to do free work for a random stranger.

[ladyknight1]

My DH and I each have a particular profession we have worked hard in to gain the knowledge and experience we have. We also have hobbies that we have spent decades on. We absolutely do not mind helping friends.

It begins to border on tedium when we are asked to help friend's relatives or other friends who we have never met. I think that is the fine line.

[weeblewobble]

DH made a new batch of bacon, smoked it Saturday morning, then packaged it up in the cooler while we went to pick up DS. We went by our friends BBQ restaurant, let them slice some of the bacon off the two chunks and cook it so they could try it. After getting the seal of approval, including a staffer that had been a bacon-hater prior, DH has decided to take orders for bacon, to be processed twice a month. All the people who had been clamoring for free bacon? Not one peep.

But he is getting orders from non-moochy people, right?  Because the thought of bacon just sitting around without people to love it, makes me sad.

[ladyknight1]

He is taking pre-orders only. That way he only buys the raw product he knows we will use, then will add more as needed.

[FauxFoodist]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

[PastryGoddess]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

SoCalVal, are there any culinary schools near you?  You may want to call and see if you can take private lessons with an instructor or senior student. Chocolate classes should be easier to find than sugarcraft classes.  If I lived in the area, I'd give you my contact info.

[laud_shy_girl]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

Yea I have to agree. I said a few posts back about giving quilting a go. I looked for classes but there is zip in my area. I am resorting to u tube tutorials. I must admit I am jealous as there seems to be less of a culture of craftiness in the uk.  at least in comparison to the US, ymmv.

The thing I would love to try is Glass blowing. Its got to be one of my top 5 things I want to try.

[Elfmama]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

SoCalVal, are there any culinary schools near you?  You may want to call and see if you can take private lessons with an instructor or senior student. Chocolate classes should be easier to find than sugarcraft classes.  If I lived in the area, I'd give you my contact info.

If you have a community college near you, they may also have classes, either credit or non-credit. 

[Minmom3]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

Yea I have to agree. I said a few posts back about giving quilting a go. I looked for classes but there is zip in my area. I am resorting to u tube tutorials. I must admit I am jealous as there seems to be less of a culture of craftiness in the uk.  at least in comparison to the US, ymmv.

The thing I would love to try is Glass blowing. Its got to be one of my top 5 things I want to try.

Have you looked in your local library?  I learned a TON from library books.  Mostly that there were things I had NO desire to try, or color combos, and such.  But when you get 6 library books on a topic out at the same time, you can read them all, and cherry pick what looks appetizing to you and give it a whirl.  My problem with most of the videos on line is that the quality is the pits, they're hard to SEE, and they tend to be very single topic, which is great for some stuff but less great for others.  I've actually only taken one and a half classes in my life.  I'd take more, but they don't usually work with my work schedule.  Books have been my great friends through all of this.  Oh, and joining a quilting society!  Not that they've had classes I've taken, but that the show and tell portions can be highly interesting, and the speaker du jour is usually extremely good and informative.  At least, this was so in the group I used to belong to.

[FauxFoodist]

Upon reading this thread, I now find I want to know how to make my own chocolate and bacon.

Someone posted something about sugarcraft and chocolate work.  I just want to know -- how did you go about learning it?  I live near the Bay area, and I've been searching for classes to learn it for months now.  I really haven't had much luck.  I've been fascinated with "Kings of Pastry" for awhile now, but there's no way I'm ever going to be able to spend the time or money to go to pastry school since it would just be for fun.

SoCalVal, are there any culinary schools near you?  You may want to call and see if you can take private lessons with an instructor or senior student. Chocolate classes should be easier to find than sugarcraft classes.  If I lived in the area, I'd give you my contact info.

If you have a community college near you, they may also have classes, either credit or non-credit.

There are at least two culinary schools near me, and one culinary program at one of the community colleges (all are professional programs).  I've been taking classes here and there at the community college over the past seven years, but, for pastry work, that program does not offer anything past fancy cakes and some chocolate work (so, nothing like sugarcraft or working with modeling chocolate).  Don't get me wrong; I LOVE that program but really want to learn the more artsy stuff (blown sugar, pulling sugar and figure modeling, to name a few).  I think both of the culinary schools require an official chat with whomever makes the big push to enroll students; I can't get information on what they have to offer (even if they offer stand-alone courses) without having to give them all my info to contact me (which I don't want to do as this is just a hobby for me).

For the past year or so, I've been looking into taking glass-blowing classes at some studios and, maybe, some painting and sculpting classes at a JC so I could at least get the art part down, never mind figuring out how to work with edible mediums.

What I've found in the Bay area hasn't really been what I want to learn.  For example, when I do a google search, the courses I find offered are on things I'm not about to pay these little schools to learn -- usually a lot of money for stuff I'd learn at the JC's program here (but cheaper and more extensively here).  In 2012, someone opened a sugarcraft school in Pennsylvania.  That school offers exactly what I've been seeking, but I have not yet found those classes here -- classes like airbrushing, animal & figure modeling, blown & pulled sugar and mold-making.

My wonderful husband, always encouraging, suggested sending me to take classes there, but I vetoed that as the classes are really expensive ($975 each), which we really can't afford.

I'm going to keep looking, though.  If someone could open a sugarcraft school out there, then I figure it's just a matter of time before someone opens a sugarcraft school out here (there was a cake camp in Henderson last weekend that offered some promising classes, but it was too far away for me to try to get to it this year).

[PastryGoddess]

Modeling chocolate is like clay.  So while edible, it's not really palatable.  The real difference between the two is that one will mold, and the other will not.  I have no artistic skill so I never went anywhere with it.  However, I am very skilled in tempering and making chocolates.

Pulled sugar is an art form.  I learned the basics in culinary school and then took classes/workshops at various domestic and international conferences.  However, we didn't do pulled sugar work until we were in our advanced classes almost ready to graduate.