Author Topic: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137  (Read 18878 times)

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NyaChan

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2013, 10:30:02 AM »
So it sounds like, after the incident, they went maybe 5-7 *years* without socializing with her. 

Thanks for the quote - I had forgotten the lapse in friendship for a while.  But I still don't see that the situation was every directly addressed.  I think it should be.  I am guessing the neighbor lady has no idea that incident has affected the OP how it has, especially because it seems the neighbor lady's daughter never discussed it with the OP (and therefore probably did not discuss the OP's feelings she didn't know about with her mom) and it seems neither the OP nor her parents directly addressed this either. Since the neighbor lady was never called our and "everyone" seems to be fine with her, she probably has no idea this is an issue.

Ah a break in socializing puts this into more perspective for me as far as the parents go.  I actually think she probably does know that it was a problem, but I doubt the parents were giving her the cut direct for that time if they were able to reestablish relations now, so much as they distanced themselves.  I think that after 5-7 years of civil but not close interaction, she probably figures it is all done with now and that she has been forgiven.  I would not expect a conversation on that topic to happen at this point and wouldn't recommend trying to force it either - too much time has passed to make it a productive conversation. 

The thing that really sticks for me though is that regardless of why or when this rift occurred, getting over it doesn't mean that we have to socialize with the person who has hurt us.  I can get over something bad that happened to me, but still be perfectly aware that the bad side that I've seen of someone marks them as someone I wouldn't want in my life - or at least not at an occasion that has everything to do with me, and nothing to do with them, like a birthday party. 

I've done a mental "go forth and sin no more" to the people who really messed me up and while they are very sweet when they try to contact me now, and I am sure that they have changed a lot, I will never be more than a polite acquaintance to them, maybe with an added dose of nostalgia because we have known each other for so long.  I don't think that is stewing or failing to move on.  I think OP has no need to socialize with this woman and with so many people who didn't fail her at a key moment in her life around to celebrate with, why does this woman need to be there?

gramma dishes

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2013, 10:30:11 AM »
... your mother can make her own decisions on whom she wishes to socialize with, she cannot make that decision for you.

This.  Precisely.

VorFemme

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2013, 03:30:42 PM »

I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."


Ding, ding, ding - yes, this!  Exactly the right words.

The woman has shown her "true self" and the OP doesn't have to be around her.

If the OP's mother disagrees - then the mother is trying to insist, to herself, that the woman might have redeeming qualities because she is still a neighbor.  But she's a nayboor - it only sounds the same.
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Allyson

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2013, 04:23:52 PM »
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."
.

Oh, I *like* that distinction! To me 'grudge' and 'staying mad' involve some kind of emotion, where the latter can be quite cold. Also, I can be mad at someone without feeling they are actually a horrible person, and realize it's my own emotions clouding the situation. The thing is, in a case like this, I would probably deal with seeing her at most occasions. There are lots of people out there I don't want to deal with because of who they are, and if I gave all of them 'the cut direct', well, it would make things harder for me. But *not* at my birthday, and not at a birthday hosted by a close family member.

Like other posters it kind of baffles me that your family would not socialize with them for years, then start doing so again but *not* bring up the underlying cause? I think sometimes people get mad, and assume that what's a big deal to them is also a big deal to the other person--the whole 'I won't tell you why I'm mad because you should know' thing. But maybe the neighbour lady didn't even think about it again, just figured 'oh, family X drifted away, and now they're back'. I don't know. But I know if something affected me to *that* point it would just about kill me to not address it to them if I decided to see them again! Maybe not if it was a situation like 'well, time has passed so I won't make it awkward if I see them, but won't go out of my way to hang with them either' but your mother wants to invite her to a party! Which is more involvement than just 'polite acquaintances for the sake of civility'.

The thing is, I pretty much would never 'cut direct' someone for something they did *once*, so long as it was acknowledged that said thing was wrong...which has never happened here.

GSNW

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2013, 09:57:01 PM »
I think the difference between myself and my mom lies in our attitude towards people we don't get along with, or who we feel have wronged us.  My mom is the eternal peacemaker, so the fact that they refused to socialize with the neighbors for a period of about five years says a lot. 

To give an example, my mom has a toxic cousin that I refuse to deal with on a 1:1 basis (I am cooly polite to her at family gatherings, but otherwise it's radio silence).  My mom is constantly trying to "work on" their friendship because "she's faaamily!" which I think is ridiculous and a pointless waste of time.  I am much quicker to wash my hands of people and situations, and she feels like I can be callous in this.

My mom's actions, while coming from a good place, often rub people the wrong way because she tries to please so many people at once.  At the time of the incident I told her I was very angry with the neighbor.  She said something along the lines of, "Being angry with her is very unfair because she didn't know all the details of the situation.  You need to treat her politely."  As I understood it at the time, the subject was closed.  As an adult, I can see that maybe my mom was trying to not stretch out the trauma and ensure that I didn't go over and scream at the lady, or something like that.  I wish she had offered a little more validation of my feelings, but the time for that is long past.

When I told her I didn't want ML at the party, there was a good 15 seconds of silence (via phone) before she said, "Are you still that angry with her?"  I didn't want to get into an argument about whether or not I have the right to be mad/upset/not want to see her (because I know that's where it will go), so I told her I would need to think about it, then posted this thread.

I think my mom's actions regarding the party are unfair and wrong, and many people have posted that very succinctly.  I am going to call her tomorrow afternoon and let her know I'd prefer a quiet dinner with family only, and that if she wants to do the big cookout, I'd prefer it not be billed as a bday party on my behalf.  I think that will make things much easier, and honestly, if there was a big BBQ and everyone except ML were invited, it would be very obvious.  I don't want to *punish* her for what happened, I just don't want to hang out with her.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 10:00:45 PM by GSNW »

Jaelle

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2013, 10:30:01 PM »
What's the quote? "When people show you who they are, believe them."

Sending a terrified teen girl back into the snow wearing only a towel, even if you did believe they were prone to hysterics, is simply unbelievable.

lowspark said it well. It would have less to do with still hanging on to things and more to do with "I don't choose to associate with someone like that."

I agree with your decision, OP. Sounds like a quiet dinner might be a better option if this is going to be an issue.
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Dr. F.

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2013, 10:30:16 PM »

I think my mom's actions regarding the party are unfair and wrong, and many people have posted that very succinctly.  I am going to call her tomorrow afternoon and let her know I'd prefer a quiet dinner with family only, and that if she wants to do the big cookout, I'd prefer it not be billed as a bday party on my behalf.  I think that will make things much easier, and honestly, if there was a big BBQ and everyone except ML were invited, it would be very obvious. I don't want to *punish* her for what happened, I just don't want to hang out with her.

The bolded is the difference between a grudge and a reasonable reaction. A grudge involves an overly emotional reaction to a previous issue. If you were holding a grudge, you would want her punished. You are "over it," you just don't like this person (for good reason!); there is nothing more to get over.

Minmom3

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2013, 10:34:00 PM »
Seriously?!  "Ma, she shoved me BACK IN THE SNOW WEARING ONLY A TOWEL!!   And she NEVER apologized!!"   

OP was scared enough to be crying.  She was wearing ONLY a towel. Cops discovered that there WAS a break in.  What part of trauma does the OP's mother NOT understand?  Is what happened to her daughter that trivial?  Even if she'd been fully dressed for the weather, being scared enough to be crying would have ME calling the cops for the kid....  I see no excuse for doing anything else.  Just the fact that OP was crying in fear should have triggered the 'help make it better SOMEHOW' reflex in the woman...  Even if OP was a perfect stranger to the woman, she should have recognized that level of fear when OP was in front of her.  It boggles my mind that OP's mom is surprised and dismayed that OP holds this grudge against ML.  To me, that is horribly passive and spineless on the mother's part.  Horribly so. >:(


OK, so not a grudge.  But absolutely within OP's rights to decline to spend any time in her company.  I'd be having words with Mom about how much more important this woman's feelings appeared to be than mine, if I were OP.  As a mother, I would not have gotten over a neighbor doing that to my 13 yo daughter.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 10:37:39 PM by Minmom3 »
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LifeOnPluto

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #98 on: July 01, 2013, 10:45:23 PM »

When I told her I didn't want ML at the party, there was a good 15 seconds of silence (via phone) before she said, "Are you still that angry with her?"  I didn't want to get into an argument about whether or not I have the right to be mad/upset/not want to see her (because I know that's where it will go), so I told her I would need to think about it, then posted this thread.


Your mum is kind of missing the point. It's not about you *still* being angry with Neighbour Woman. It's simply that you don't like her, and don't want her there.

There are people who have "wronged" me in the past (although admittedly not to the same degree). I'm not angry at them. In fact, I wish them well. But I just can't be bothered socialising with them. They're not people I want to spend time with. 

I'd tell your mum that while you're not angry with Neighbour Woman, you don't like her, and have no inclination to spend time with her at your own party.

artk2002

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2013, 01:19:15 AM »
The problem that I see with your mother is that she sees only two possibilities. Either your so angry you can't deal with this woman or everything is just hunky-dory. There's no middle ground. I'm sure that's what happened when your parents cut the woman off. They were angry and cut her off and then they got over the angry so everything is fine. You've got a third place: You'd simply rather not deal with this woman. I don't get a feeling of residual anger, but things certainly aren't just ducky fine with her either. Mom has trouble understanding that, hence the "are you still really that angry with her" question.
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VorFemme

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #100 on: July 02, 2013, 11:13:56 AM »
It's not that you "don't like her" - it's that you "don't trust her" - she shoved a naked, wet teenaged girl wearing ONLY a towel outside in the SNOW for having hysterics instead of trying to figure out what was going on.

For Pete's Sake - she doesn't need to be given another chance to show that she totally lacks neighborly protective feelings for the kids in her area.
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Danika

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #101 on: July 02, 2013, 11:33:21 AM »
Exactly. It's like the ML is an alligator. You know what she's capable of. You're not still mad that she tried to bite you and hurt you years ago. It's that you know that she hasn't changde and she still has the same nature to do mean, thoughtless things to others. Why invite that into your life and your circle of friends? Why expose yourself to someone like that or expose your friends/guests to that either?

OP's mom is worried about the fallout within the neighborhood for leaving out one guest. There are other options, but one option that should not be considered is to invite ML.

TurtleDove

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #102 on: July 02, 2013, 11:49:31 AM »
OP's mom is worried about the fallout within the neighborhood for leaving out one guest. There are other options, but one option that should not be considered is to invite ML.

Well, honestly, this is what strikes me as really odd.  Apparently, the neighborhood does not agree that ML is an alligator.  The neighborhood does not (apparently) hold ML in low regard at all.  I suspect it will be the OP who will be held in low regard, and I can't figure out why, aside from this incident was never appropriately addressed at the time and so the general view is that OP overreacted.  It just does not make sense to me why this was (not) handled the way it was.  Obviously, the OP can ask that ML not be invited, but it seems there is a whole lot more going on here.

CakeBeret

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #103 on: July 02, 2013, 01:23:07 PM »
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."

I think lowspark said it best, and I think that you should try using this type of wording with your mother. "Mom, I'm not mad at ML, holding a grudge, or anything else. I forgave her a long time ago. But that day she showed us her true character, and I am simply choosing not to socialize with her based on that."
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KenveeB

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Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
« Reply #104 on: July 02, 2013, 01:57:03 PM »
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."

I think lowspark said it best, and I think that you should try using this type of wording with your mother. "Mom, I'm not mad at ML, holding a grudge, or anything else. I forgave her a long time ago. But that day she showed us her true character, and I am simply choosing not to socialize with her based on that."

I just saw a quote on FB that said, "I don't hold grudges. I hold memories that keep me better prepared for our next encounter."