Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137

[LeveeWoman]

Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house). 

Who would think a partially naked kid (a towel is not clothes) needs to go out in the snow regardless if there was clothes in the house that could fit or not is a good idea? 

Get off the phone! Find out what was going on.  Then decide if it was a prank or an emergency.

My boys have did some eye rolling things at times.  But first I found out if it was real or for fun (fake bloody clothes and cries of zombies attacking... ketchup and "Haha, mom got scared.")

ML is not someone I would associate with since she does not seem to care about what was happening in the here and now vs a phone call (back then).

Just to emphasize.

[LeveeWoman]

Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

What does that mean?

It's a fact that her mother distanced herself from this hideous person for a few years.

Bah.

This person is a toxic jerk. GSNW is well-rid of her.

[Pen^2]

Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

I don't like the implications of this. There is a perception which most people hold that all stories have two sides, but this is not always true, especially for some of the less nice ones. I have personally been in a situation which was so outrageous that other people automatically felt that I must be exaggerating, and that the offenders would be exaggerating in their own way. "Oh, it can't be that bad. If it happened like you said, they wouldn't have done blah in response." Material evidence proved that actually, it had indeed happened the way I had described. It is hard sometimes to accept that something absolutely awful and against common decency has happened, because we ourselves find it inconceivable to do, unless you have been in such a situation yourself and have had the unhappy experience of not only going through something terribly upsetting, but having people assume you are a liar on top of it.

A lot of adults like to pretend away things they don't want to deal with. They'll just continue acting as though nothing happened and refuse to address it until everyone else does the same out of a lack of other options. That sounds like what may have happened in this case. Other people involved, seeing the response of the awful woman, would assume that GSNW was overreacting or exaggerating.

The fact that the response of this woman doesn't gel with GSNW's experience absolutely does not mean that GSNW is exaggerating or lying. It is, however, very consistent with the kind of person portrayed in GSNW's original story.

It is never, ever acceptable to send a girl wearing only a towel outside. It doesn't matter if you assume that she'll find some clothes from your daughter or that it's a prank or whatever pathetic excuse you like. You just don't turn your back on the girl and dismiss the situation. GSNW is rightly upset by being treated so inhumanely and it is quite reasonable for her to not want to interact with someone who wants to just ignore what happened.

[Danika]

I agree with Pen^2 (as usual). In groups, I think there are often a few abusive and pushy people and other spineless people who like to keep the peace. The peacekeepers often put up with a lot and the pushy people get away with too much.

I've seen it in my FOO (family of origin) and outrageous things are done and said and everyone else says to hush and sweep it under the rug in the name of preserving faaaaammmily harmony. I've never lived in a small town, but I imagine it's possible it's the same there. Everyone wants to get along. No one wants to be left out of activities and gatherings and so they let the pushy person get away with a lot because they don't want to stir up trouble and get ostracized.

I imagine a lot of people in town dislike ML and have their own stories and reasons but they all sweep it under the rug because they think that if they object, they'll be the ones who are cast out from the group, not her.

[*inviteseller]

TurtleDove..may I ask why it is so important to find out what the neighbors feel about this woman?  Who cares if Mrs. Jones in the corner house with the lovely hydrangeas thinks neighbor lady is nice, or Mr Smith, the one with the yappy dog thinks she is a busy body? 

The OP's feelings for this woman are valid because this woman turned a scared towel clad child out in the snow because she didn't want to get off the phone and find out what was going on.  OP didn't have the time or probably the strength to argue, her and the woman's DD (her own DD!!!) ran to another neighbor's house.  Why should OP or her parents have had to go explain the situation and beg for an apology?  I am sorry, but there is no way in Hades that this woman did not know the outcome of why OP showed up like she did..these are neighbors close enough for OP to run to, she had to see the police and all the activity, and I am positive her own DD told her.

 OP's parent did freeze them out for a long period..did they tell her why?  Who knows, who cares!  I am sure OP's mom, given her description as peace maker, just found it easier to sart being civil to a neighbor (who seems to have a nice DD and DH) than keep freezing her.  Doesn't mean they are best friends..it means OP's mom is big on keeping up appearances.  I will be willing to bet, even though OP and her parents didn't blast it in the neighborhood (which is classy!), the neighbors knew..maybe not every detail, but they knew.  But the point is..who cares what the neighbors say or think?  This woman did something, that as a mother I cannot even conceive of doing to a scared child whether I knew them or not, and she is not someone I would ever want to lay eyes on again, much less socialize with. 

This is NOT about appearances and gossip in the neighborhood, this is about an adult who turned a child out in a veryveryvery bad time.  Why should OP cut her slack and say "well gee, maybe she didn't know?"  I don't know all of my neighbors, but you can believe we all know if there is some police issue going on at one of our houses, and even though not too many of the kids on my section of street socialize together (gender/age variables), all the parents would open up a door and help a kid out..and some of us already have for issues far less severe than what happened to OP.  She was a victim of a crime, and was victimized again by her rude neighbor who has a heart of stone.

[TurtleDove]

"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).

[Maggie]

"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).

But according to the OP her mom did cut the ML off for a number of years.

[RingTailedLemur]

Who gives a stuff if the other neighbours think that, why should the OP care?

[Hmmmmm]

I agree with Pen^2 (as usual). In groups, I think there are often a few abusive and pushy people and other spineless people who like to keep the peace. The peacekeepers often put up with a lot and the pushy people get away with too much.

I've seen it in my FOO (family of origin) and outrageous things are done and said and everyone else says to hush and sweep it under the rug in the name of preserving faaaaammmily harmony. I've never lived in a small town, but I imagine it's possible it's the same there. Everyone wants to get along. No one wants to be left out of activities and gatherings and so they let the pushy person get away with a lot because they don't want to stir up trouble and get ostracized.

I imagine a lot of people in town dislike ML and have their own stories and reasons but they all sweep it under the rug because they think that if they object, they'll be the ones who are cast out from the group, not her.

I agree we are all putting our on experiences on this issue.  I just re read all the OPs posts about the woman and other than this specific incident I see no reference to the ML doing other heinous acts. No, she never acknowledge her mistake and apologized. But I don't see why we should assume this was a pattern of behavior.

[TootsNYC]

Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

It does to me!

The OP's parents completely cooled on this woman. It's just not that realistic to think that the OP's parents should or would have gone across the street and yelled at her, then broadcast that into the newspapers so that everyone knows.

For all we know, the OP's mom or dad *did* directly say, "I'm not happy that you pushed her out." And they did cool all interactions.

But time goes on, and the incident doesn't repeat itself, and people forgive. They can't maintain fever pitch of anger. (The OP herself didn't, doesn't.) And while they may always remember that MeanLady is someone who is essentially selfish and can't be trusted in a pinch, that doesn't eliminate them from a social circle in which they are permanently entrenched. And as the years go by, and the number of perfectly ordinary interactions builds up on the "normal" side of the scale, it tips that direction.

It takes a heck of a lot of social energy and social capital to completely ostracize someone, and it takes a lot of energy and social capital to do so for years.

I don't even really fault the OP's mom for just sort of lumping this woman in the "neighbors we're friendly with" category, or for thinking "oh, ML is my daughter's friend's mom, therefore there's a sense of connection." Though I would hope that I'd be more tuned in to whether my daughter seemed to avoid her. (However, since the OP has moved away, there's been no opportunity to observe the daughter's reaction to this woman.)

[*inviteseller]

I think the OP is a class act and her and her family did not trash this woman then, nor is OP now.  She is keeping to just this situation.  But I find it hard to believe that this woman could have one instance of such horrific judgement, never apologizing or at least talking to OP at the time (and it was the woman's onus to clear up anything with OP, not the other way around) and be a one off.  Everyone makes mistakes that may hurt someone they know or love, but because we are human, we fall over ourselves to fix it so we can move on.  This woman did not, so I am willing to bet she is just not a pleasant person on a whole.  But if the neighbors are so judgmental that they will be talking because OP does not want to socialize with this woman, than they need lives.  Too many stories on these boards are about trying to establish boundaries with people we don't like, and getting others to respect the choice.  Most likely it is societal pressure that caused OP's mom to have to be civil to this woman, but why should OP fall victim to that.  She doesn't like this woman and she should not have to socialize with her and the neighbors can whisper among themselves all they want, but no one has a right, not family, not friends, certainly not your parents neighbors, to make you 'suck it up' for some harmony.  And if this woman doesn't like or understand the snub, she has had a few years now to clear the air with OP..and she never ever did.

[Twik]

"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).

There are a lot of neighbours who, after the arrest of a horrible criminal living next door, will swear that s/he is the most unobjectionable person you could meet. I don't think you'd be wise to say, "well, Mr Smith can't really be that bad, since the neighbours liked him. The victim he tried to assault must be a little over dramatic. It just doesn't jive with their behaviour that he's a serial killer."

Neighbours merely see a public face, and also have a vested interest in getting along quietly. there's no particular reason to believe that they do know the whole story.

[ThistleBird]

Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house).

Yeah, I'd been thinking that too--that we are not talking about literally, directly throwing a towel-clad girl out of the house into the snow (just saying something that could easily be interpreted that way by rightfully panicky teenagers)--but really, does it matter? Who on earth looks at a girl who has literally just run across the street (and in winter too) wet and in a towel and not only doesn't think "emergency" and doesn't respond with any help at all, but actually goes so far as to express scorn for her "dramatics"? Fine, so she never did anything like that again. If I was GNSW, the relevant part to me would be: I now understand how this woman views me (or, perhaps, girls my age in general) and I do not want to be in the same room with someone who views me that way.

As for the neighborhood, I'm with Danika. Part of human social behavior is to maintain harmony through polite fictions, and, all too often, to "sacrifice" people who are less central or powerful in the group for the sake of keeping the goodwill of people who are. I am personally leery of believing any group consensus over an individual's story. Doesn't mean I'm going to automatically jump the other way every time, but "Well, it's twenty against one so the one must be lying/exaggerating/misinterpreting" is not a good automatic response... "It's twenty against one so the twenty must have a vested interest" is just as likely to be true. (Oh, I have heard some stories... especially about group behavior when a religious leader has committed abuse, etc.) This is a general statement, not a suggestion that this is exactly what is happening here... I am just saying that I do not trust groups, and that usually the threshold for getting to "We must make a serious response against a respected group member because of what they did" is extremely high.

[sparksals]

I bet if the larger party goes on sans ML being invited, while the rest of neighbours are, deep down I bet she will know why.  The fact she never apologized tells me her character ain't pretty.