Author Topic: Just how old ARE you, anyway?  (Read 4721 times)

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cwm

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 02:05:21 PM »
If I was asked directly by my sister about something like this, I'd question her. "Do you really want my honest opinion, or are you venting steam at your frustration?" Give her an out. If she really wants your honest opinion, give it to her. By asking that question, it's a subtle way to let her know that you may not agree with her or she may not really want to hear your side of it without actually saying anything rude to her.

Or you could respond with "Well, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, but as I don't have a horse in this race, I'm staying out of it." If she keeps bringing it up, tell her in no uncertain terms that you don't want to discuss it. Drop it. Walk away. Leave her hanging on her own anger and frustration.

Daydream

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 03:09:48 PM »
I see nothing wrong with being truthful with her.  She needs to hear it.  Of course, you wouldn't say it harshly.  You would say something like, "Sis, Dad was right to be concerned about what you did. I wouldn't want you to do something like that to me, and I wouldn't do that to you.  You should have more respect for people's privacy.  Of course I agree that Dad was right to get upset"

This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately in many aspects of life -- idly sitting by while someone who is in the wrong complains about how their bad behavior wasn't well-received.  When we either say nothing, or actually agree with them when we know they were wrong, we are in part allowing their rudeness to continue unchecked. 

Of course, we can't make adults change their behavior, but we can at least let them know we don't agree with it.  I *know* how hard it is to do that when you are naturally not a confrontational person -- I've rarely ever done it.  But it's a change I'm trying to make in my life.

For instance, the first thing I thought of when reading this post was a guy I dated several years ago.  He started to display a lot of bad qualities, so I was thinking about when and how I should break up with him. 

One day, he told me his cousin had called him and was upset with him.   They were not close, but he had recently been to a party she'd thrown, thought it was awful, and told her so. 

He then bought and mailed her a book on how to throw good parties with a rude note along the lines of, "Here, maybe this will help you next time."  She was insulted, and he claimed he couldn't understand why! 

I was in shock when he told me this, and fully understood why she was upset, but I couldn't bring myself to say it.  I couldn't say anything!  All I could do was look at him in silence thinking of what an obnoxious jerk he was as he went on about how grateful she should be to him for the book. 

But to him, I'm sure my silence was seen as agreeing with him that his cousin had no right to be upset. He had such a pleased smirk on his face.  I still regret not telling him how I felt in that moment.  There are several reasons why I felt I couldn't reply safely and truthfully in that particular environment, but it doesn't change the fact that I wish I had.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 03:14:24 PM by Daydream »

Allyson

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 03:29:48 PM »
I can understand why your sister was upset if your dad's *first* response was to 'go ballistic' on her, rather than ask her calmly to take the picture down. So I'd have no problem validating *those* feelings. Yes many people have strong feelings about social media privacy, but it's not universal, so having to tell someone 'hey don't post pics of me/my things' doesn't seem a cause for flipping out.

I also think you are fine to tell her 'look, I agree with dad you should've taken the picture down since he asked' or whatever. I sympathize with your situation of having to listen to someone rant and rave when you just plain don't agree with them, and side with the other person!

cwm

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 03:35:55 PM »
This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately in many aspects of life -- idly sitting by while someone who is in the wrong complains about how their bad behavior wasn't well-received.  When we either say nothing, or actually agree with them when we know they were wrong, we are in part allowing their rudeness to continue unchecked. 

Of course, we can't make adults change their behavior, but we can at least let them know we don't agree with it.  I *know* how hard it is to do that when you are naturally not a confrontational person -- I've rarely ever done it.  But it's a change I'm trying to make in my life.

I'll come from the other side on that. My manners and behavior used to be pretty atrocious. I would go vent to people about how poorly received I was. Sometimes it wasn't that I was horrible, it was that I didn't understand the situation and acted inappropriately. In any case, there were several times that I knew that I wasn't in the right, but I still felt like I had been wronged. I'd vent to someone else, knowing full well that my behavior wasn't stellar, but also wanting validation that the other person's behavior was uncalled for as well. That's why I offered asking if sis wanted an honest opinion or was just venting.

A situation similar to the OP's actually played out in my family. My sis said from the beginning when she had her daughter that she didn't want ANYTHING out on FB or any other public sites about her, aside from vague references that she'd had a daughter and she was beautiful, that sort of thing. My dad went and posted pictures all over the place. Sis was still dealing with massive postpartum issues, niece wasn't the healthiest at the time, and she admittedly went off on dad, basically telling him in no uncertain terms to take the photos down or have access to her daughter restricted because she couldn't trust him.

He came to me complaining about it. (SOP in our family, complain to someone else close to the person you're complaining about, try to get them to fix it. One of the reasons I've since cut him off completely.) I asked him if he was just venting or if he wanted my honest opinion on the issue. He told me he wanted my opinion, and I gave it to him. And he was still spitting mad. But I somehow managed to stay calm and not let him play his usual tricks of making it all about him and how we all hated him, I kept to the facts. He went against the express wishes of the child's mother, his own daughter. If he couldn't respect her rules, then she couldn't trust his word that he wasn't doing anything else with her child that she didn't agree with. End of story.

Yes, I know, an antique isn't the same as a baby, but it's the same concept. If you can't respect someone else's wishes regarding their own personal privacy for themselves and their belongings, why would anyone honestly side with you when you're called out on it? It's not like the expectation of privacy wasn't clearly communicated beforehand.

Winterlight

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2013, 04:37:32 PM »
It's not Facebook, it's drama llamas. The best thing to do is stay out of it.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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Surianne

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2013, 09:06:00 PM »
I can understand why your sister was upset if your dad's *first* response was to 'go ballistic' on her, rather than ask her calmly to take the picture down. So I'd have no problem validating *those* feelings. Yes many people have strong feelings about social media privacy, but it's not universal, so having to tell someone 'hey don't post pics of me/my things' doesn't seem a cause for flipping out.

I also think you are fine to tell her 'look, I agree with dad you should've taken the picture down since he asked' or whatever. I sympathize with your situation of having to listen to someone rant and rave when you just plain don't agree with them, and side with the other person!

I agree.

I also think that you (OP) and your dad have some very strong opinions and misconceptions about Facebook that probably make you overreact quite a bit and jump straight to the worst case scenario. 

Since social media are a part of the world now, it may be more useful if you can accept that your opinion isn't the only correct one, that not everyone who uses them is a teenage narcissist, and that plenty of people are able to use them reasonably and responsibly. 

I think that treating your family members as if they're adults who mean well, and phrasing requests to remove photos politely rather than going ballistic, will probably go a lot further in convincing them that you're serious and that your requests deserve respect.   Your OP is dripping with condescension and outrage and I imagine those feelings must seep into Real Life and put people off from the start.

Janice

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 01:11:56 PM »
Quote
I also think that you (OP) and your dad have some very strong opinions and misconceptions about Facebook that probably make you overreact quite a bit and jump straight to the worst case scenario.

This is pretty a pretty condescending statement. You're making some assumptions here yourself.

My opinions on the FB behavior I've observed are my own business. I don't go around telling people not to use it or how to use it UNLESS somebody does something with it that invades my privacy. I work in information security. I cannot count the number of times I've had dealt with people who have had dumb stuff they posted on FB come back to bite them. And these are people who supposedly had their privacy settings correct. Once something is on the internet, it's out there forever. As another poster said, would you want photos of yourself and your belongings slapped up on walls and trees all over town?

To clarify again - my dad's first reaction wasn't to go ballistic at my S. The first post doesn't explain that which may cause some confusion. He requested that she remove the photo and the post about it and she threw a snit, and I would guess that my father blew his stack. That doesn't excuse him, but it certainly doesn't excuse her from ignoring his original request - to which she agreed - to not post personal information about him on the internet without his express permission.

The main issue at the root of this isn't really FB (although it magnifies the problem), it's lack of respect for other people's boundaries and an outsized sense of entitlement. Plus a large helping of drama-rama, of course.

It seems to have blown over, so hopefully I won't have to put my bean dip recipes to the test.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 02:56:34 PM by Janice »

Sharnita

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 01:39:59 PM »
Honestly, it does seem a bit of a contradiction that dad wants his info locked down but when sis defriends them and they can't see the grandkids' photos there is any objection. Shouldn't dad respect and encourage similar control of her info?

gramma dishes

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 01:48:59 PM »
Honestly, it does seem a bit of a contradiction that dad wants his info locked down but when sis defriends them and they can't see the grandkids' photos there is any objection. Shouldn't dad respect and encourage similar control of her info?

I don't see much analogy between someone posting on a social media site a description (including the cost) and picture of your new vintage Jaguar and the refusal of a poster to allow her own family to see pictures of their grandchildren or something.  Two very different things.  One subjects the owner of the valuable object to potential theft while the other is simply spiteful vengeance against family members.

miranova

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 02:15:33 PM »
This is also a good reason not to advertise your vacations in advance (hello, I'll be away from home this week, feel free to stop by and steal stuff!)

In fact, I suggest avoiding the Facebook "check-in" feature for any absence at all.  A two-hour movie is plenty enough time for a burglar to empty a house of valuables.

We've been trying to get my husband to stop using check-in for quite a while now, without success.

I guess I have never understood the concern here.  My facebook page is private and the only people who can see my statuses and/or check-ins are people I have chosen to be friends with.  My whereabouts are never broadcast to the world, and even if some random criminal knew I was at a particular restaurant and thus not home, I don't see how that helps him unless he has my address.  I am really honestly wondering if I am missing something here, because I don't understand how me telling people I know and trust that I am at a restaurant is unsafe.  Sure if your page is public that's different, but even then I question how many criminals looking for a place to rob sit around trolling extremely random public Facebook pages looking to see who is not home, and then somehow determining where they live?  What am I missing?

Janice

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 02:55:39 PM »
Quote
Honestly, it does seem a bit of a contradiction that dad wants his info locked down but when sis defriends them and they can't see the grandkids' photos there is any objection. Shouldn't dad respect and encourage similar control of her info?
If my dad was the one on FB, that might be the case. However, dad isn't on FB and doesn't even have access to the mom's account. I don't think he's ever even seen any pics that my mom hasn't emailed directly to him. My mom is the one with the account that my S set up for her specifically for that reason - it's the only thing she uses it for. My mom wasn't involved in the whole fiasco at all - she just mentioned to my dad the S had posted the photo and he might want to ask her to remove it as it's really his antique. The "spite" part of the equation is where an uninvolved party is punished for the unrelated disagreement between two other people. I don't disagree that S can choose whoever she likes to friend or defriend, but the *reasoning* behind this action struck me as being petty.

I think the etiquette part of my question has been answered...as for the rest of it, I'm sticking to bean dip!

Zizi-K

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 03:13:50 PM »
This is also a good reason not to advertise your vacations in advance (hello, I'll be away from home this week, feel free to stop by and steal stuff!)

In fact, I suggest avoiding the Facebook "check-in" feature for any absence at all.  A two-hour movie is plenty enough time for a burglar to empty a house of valuables.

We've been trying to get my husband to stop using check-in for quite a while now, without success.

I guess I have never understood the concern here.  My facebook page is private and the only people who can see my statuses and/or check-ins are people I have chosen to be friends with.  My whereabouts are never broadcast to the world, and even if some random criminal knew I was at a particular restaurant and thus not home, I don't see how that helps him unless he has my address.  I am really honestly wondering if I am missing something here, because I don't understand how me telling people I know and trust that I am at a restaurant is unsafe.  Sure if your page is public that's different, but even then I question how many criminals looking for a place to rob sit around trolling extremely random public Facebook pages looking to see who is not home, and then somehow determining where they live?  What am I missing?

I personally don't think that a restaurant check-in is that dangerous. I do think that it's unwise to advertise well in advance that one will be out of town for an extended amount of time. It comes down to caution - yes, we all think we understand the ever-changing FB privacy settings, and we all know and trust all of our FB friends, but I personally think it's better to be prudent. Your friend, who checks you both in, might not have the same privacy settings, your friend's kid's friends might be over (and might not be so savory), etc. There's a lot of ways this kind of advertisement of one's whereabouts can go wrong. 99% of the time it's probably not an issue, but again, prudence. (It's not an etiquette issue for me, btw.)

Surianne

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 03:35:14 PM »
Quote
I also think that you (OP) and your dad have some very strong opinions and misconceptions about Facebook that probably make you overreact quite a bit and jump straight to the worst case scenario.

This is pretty a pretty condescending statement. You're making some assumptions here yourself.

My opinions on the FB behavior I've observed are my own business. I don't go around telling people not to use it or how to use it UNLESS somebody does something with it that invades my privacy. I work in information security. I cannot count the number of times I've had dealt with people who have had dumb stuff they posted on FB come back to bite them. And these are people who supposedly had their privacy settings correct. Once something is on the internet, it's out there forever. As another poster said, would you want photos of yourself and your belongings slapped up on walls and trees all over town?

What I'm speaking about is this:

What is it about Facebook that makes most of the people I've observed on it act like narcissistic 12 year olds?

I think that if you aren't on Facebook and don't use it, tarring people who do with insults about the emotional age and self-involvement is a little much.  Some people enjoy Facebook; you do not.  If you can think of it that way (you're all adults who simply like different things), rather than as how much better you are than people who are on Facebook, you may get a better response from your family members. 

ladyknight1

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 03:42:13 PM »
POD Surianne.

Having a technical job does not preclude participating in social media.

TurtleDove

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Re: Just how old ARE you, anyway?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2013, 07:42:20 PM »
Like some other posters, I don't see the big deal, but if the dad wants the photo taken down, take it down. As to the defriending of the mom, why can't the mom just be emailed or texted photos of the grand kids? I see a lot of unwarranted condescension, judgment and hypocrisy from the dad and mom.