Author Topic: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61  (Read 11311 times)

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Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2013, 03:20:37 PM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

Exactly how poorly marked are your changing rooms that men are randomly wandering into the women's changing rooms? This is normally not a particularly easy mistake to make. If they're doing it innocently, and being embarrassed, something should be done for their sakes.

Look, I'm really not interested in getting into this further.  I've said the problem didn't bother me at all.  I'm really not planning to raising heck at my gym, no matter how many posters here want me to. 

There's no reason my posts need to be continually picked apart when it was originally a simple digression.  This isn't helpful to the OP's question at all.

GrammarNerd

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2013, 03:59:28 PM »
Minor update: At the end of the little kids' practice today, I noticed the mom (from across the pool deck) and wanted to see what she did.  I watched and she went over to wait for her son to get done, and then I noticed that she was talking with the head coach for a while.  After that, she wandered over by the locker rooms and (yeah!) was yelling into the locker room through the vents/slats instead of going to the door.  (This is what I've been doing for years.)

So it looks like things are good for now.  I, of course, will still keep an eye on it.  I also learned that our president, who I contacted originally with the coach, doesn't really do anything.  There is someone else, who I've known for years, and she's in the process of assuming the role.  I told her about the whole situation (this was right before I saw the coach talking to the mom) and being the mother of a 16 year old boy, she was appropriately horrified when she thought of the woman walking in on her son.  She turned right around and was going to ask the pool staff to put up some signs.  I told her that the coach said she would talk to the mom, and she said she'd check with her first before she pursued the signs. 

Thanks for all of the good discussion and back up.

ettiquit

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2013, 04:53:02 PM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

Exactly how poorly marked are your changing rooms that men are randomly wandering into the women's changing rooms? This is normally not a particularly easy mistake to make. If they're doing it innocently, and being embarrassed, something should be done for their sakes.

Look, I'm really not interested in getting into this further.  I've said the problem didn't bother me at all.  I'm really not planning to raising heck at my gym, no matter how many posters here want me to. 

There's no reason my posts need to be continually picked apart when it was originally a simple digression.  This isn't helpful to the OP's question at all.

The problem is that because you didn't think it was a big deal for men to see you naked, that no one should raise a fuss over that sort of thing.  There's a bit of victim-blaming in your posts too, since you think the boys should just go hide to avoid being seen by someone who doesn't belong in the dressing room.

We can't decide for other people what they should and shouldn't be upset about.  I was made fun a lot by a few people when the TSA body scanner machines were introduced, because I thought the idea of them was despicable and they thought it was no big deal. Why would their opinion carry any weight over the validity of my feelings?  I didn't tell them that they were wrong for being ok with this.  I didn't care.  Personal comfort is well, very personal.  No one should presume to decide that someone is wrong because they feel personally violated, even if you think they're being ridiculous.

Twik

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2013, 05:18:31 PM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

Exactly how poorly marked are your changing rooms that men are randomly wandering into the women's changing rooms? This is normally not a particularly easy mistake to make. If they're doing it innocently, and being embarrassed, something should be done for their sakes.

Look, I'm really not interested in getting into this further.  I've said the problem didn't bother me at all.  I'm really not planning to raising heck at my gym, no matter how many posters here want me to. 

There's no reason my posts need to be continually picked apart when it was originally a simple digression.  This isn't helpful to the OP's question at all.

No, but I don't think going, "Oh, why should he care if a whole parade of women walk through the dressing room when he's naked? It's not big deal," is helpful, either.

You may be comfortable about such things, but many people are not. The question here is how to keep the woman from making the boys uncomfortable.
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DottyG

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2013, 05:27:26 PM »
Quote
She turned right around and was going to ask the pool staff to put up some signs.  I told her that the coach said she would talk to the mom, and she said she'd check with her first before she pursued the signs.

I think some signs might be a good idea anyway.  Maybe not for this situation (hopefully it's now resolved), but just kind of as a preemptory thing for the future.  Yeah, there shouldn't have to be a need for a sign to tell people not to go into the wrong room, but apparently it is necessary!

I'm glad someone was taking it seriously when you told them.


Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2013, 06:06:08 PM »
"Victim-blaming"???  Seriously?

Look, I've conceded the point that my story wasn't a useful parallel in the way I originally intended.  I've asked to change the subject to something more useful for the OP. 

But this is flat-out ridiculous and to accuse me of "victim-blaming" is simply offensive. 

Sharnita

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2013, 06:20:34 PM »
Surianne, when the suggestion is made that if the kids really don't want to be seen naked by a strange woman they should find a certain part of the locker room to change in the subtext seems to be that it was their fault they were seen naked because they were not cautious enough about were they were naked in their own locker room.  That probably was not your intent at all but I think it probably did come across that way to some people. 

DottyG

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2013, 06:24:57 PM »
So your friend is taking over the president's role?  It sounds like she'll be a good fit and has some interest in getting things done, if it's necessary.  The current one doesn't strike me as such.  I'm surprised he/she didn't do anything (same with the coach).  You'd think they would have done something.


NyaChan

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2013, 06:27:00 PM »
Surianne, when the suggestion is made that if the kids really don't want to be seen naked by a strange woman they should find a certain part of the locker room to change in the subtext seems to be that it was their fault they were seen naked because they were not cautious enough about were they were naked in their own locker room.  That probably was not your intent at all but I think it probably did come across that way to some people.

I don't think the subtext is that it is their fault, I think the subtext was that they could change their own behavior to prevent the negative result rather than trusting others to change theirs.  It is a valid point, but personally I agree with others that a men's locker room is for men and they should not have to go change in a stall or hide around a corner as their expectation that women will not enter is a reasonable one. 

Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2013, 06:28:51 PM »
Surianne, when the suggestion is made that if the kids really don't want to be seen naked by a strange woman they should find a certain part of the locker room to change in the subtext seems to be that it was their fault they were seen naked because they were not cautious enough about were they were naked in their own locker room.  That probably was not your intent at all but I think it probably did come across that way to some people. 

My advice wasn't helpful in the way I'd intended.  I completely understand that.  I feel the polite solution would have been to accept my multiple requests to move past it, rather than for posters to take turns attacking me personally. 

ettiquit

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2013, 06:50:14 PM »
Surianne, when the suggestion is made that if the kids really don't want to be seen naked by a strange woman they should find a certain part of the locker room to change in the subtext seems to be that it was their fault they were seen naked because they were not cautious enough about were they were naked in their own locker room.  That probably was not your intent at all but I think it probably did come across that way to some people.

I don't think the subtext is that it is their fault, I think the subtext was that they could change their own behavior to prevent the negative result rather than trusting others to change theirs.  It is a valid point, but personally I agree with others that a men's locker room is for men and they should not have to go change in a stall or hide around a corner as their expectation that women will not enter is a reasonable one.

I really don't mean to offend, but this IS the definition of victim-blaming.

But probably we should move on from this before the thread gets locked.

violetminnow

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2013, 09:54:26 PM »
Good to hear that the woman changed her behavior after she was warned. That's a good sign that she's reasonable and not going to keep going in the locker to prove a point.

GrammarNerd

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Re: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2013, 10:16:24 PM »
OP here.....I got an email from the coach that everything was resolved.  I then talked to her at practice and she said it was a very good discussion with the other mom; no problem at all.  I asked if it was just something that didn't really occur to her (having younger kids, she maybe didn't think about how older or other kids would feel) and she didn't really confirm that viewpoint, but reiterated that it was a good discussion and that there were no hard feelings and the woman wasn't upset or anything like that. 

I'm inferring that maybe this was just a case where the mom just did NOT. THINK.  She didn't consider the older kids, and she was just maybe in the frame of mind of dealing with a 6 year old.  Once it was pointed out to her that this is something that is NOT done and the potential ramifications or affect on other boys (of any age), she was "enlightened" and understood the need for her to back off.

I'm sure that human nature will always make me remember her for this, but I won't hold it against her.  It was strange, sure, but I'm happy that it appears to have been resolved peacefully and respectfully.  Sometimes people just need an 'a ha....duh' moment.

HoneyBee42

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2013, 10:42:53 PM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.


Doesn't matter = the issue is the same. If one age group is to be respected in this manner the other should be too. Kids should not get less ( or more) respect on this issue than adults. and vice versa. And there are adults who think that because the kids are "just kids" they deserve less privacy and that others needs less privacy from their eyes. Neither is acceptable.

Although it seems the original situation has been resolved--just wanted to add that the one difference to me is that a lot of times, kids don't necessarily have the "tools in the box" to deal with a situation like a wrong-gender adult coming into the change room.  Adults, for the most part, have figured out how to either address the issue at the time or know who to contact (or how to find out who to contact) to complain up the 'food chain'.  Kids need help with that part (and some kids might be too embarrassed to tell their parent{s} and just try to quit doing the activity as their "solution").

I'm glad that the OP's situation worked out as well as it did.

(edited because I had a weird formatting issue)


snowdragon

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2013, 05:24:09 PM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.


Doesn't matter = the issue is the same. If one age group is to be respected in this manner the other should be too. Kids should not get less ( or more) respect on this issue than adults. and vice versa. And there are adults who think that because the kids are "just kids" they deserve less privacy and that others needs less privacy from their eyes. Neither is acceptable.

Although it seems the original situation has been resolved--just wanted to add that the one difference to me is that a lot of times, kids don't necessarily have the "tools in the box" to deal with a situation like a wrong-gender adult coming into the change room.  Adults, for the most part, have figured out how to either address the issue at the time or know who to contact (or how to find out who to contact) to complain up the 'food chain'.  Kids need help with that part (and some kids might be too embarrassed to tell their parent{s} and just try to quit doing the activity as their "solution").

I'm glad that the OP's situation worked out as well as it did.

(edited because I had a weird formatting issue)

The reason why it's an issue for an adult is that if the parent who is bringing a child into the adult locker room gets upset at something the kid sees, they can make a WHOLE mess of trouble for the adult. And it won't matter if the adult was in their designated area, or what not. If they get reported for being improper in front of a kid - their life can be ruined.
   And before anyone says that's an over reaction, consider this:  My 5th grade teacher had his life ruined for just such circumstances. He was in the locker room at his gym, came out of the shower to get dressed and while doing so a parent brought their child ( a boy) in to the adult locker room.  The parent got upset at the kid seeing a nude adult in the adult locker room, reported the teacher and the teacher was arrested on indecent exposure to a minor charges. Lost his good name, and his career ( you can't be a teacher here if you have been arrested on child related charges) because  some parent took a kid into an area that they had no business being in.

The potential for damage to the adult is much greater than just a bit of embarrassment. 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 05:30:28 PM by snowdragon »