Author Topic: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61  (Read 10714 times)

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Outdoor Girl

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 10:40:21 PM »
I think your son speaking up is the best way to get this woman to stop.  Especially if some of the other boys start speaking up, too.  They need to be polite about it but there is nothing wrong with:  'This is the men's change room.  Get out!'
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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 11:01:20 PM »
I think your son speaking up is the best way to get this woman to stop.  Especially if some of the other boys start speaking up, too.  They need to be polite about it but there is nothing wrong with:  'This is the men's change room.  Get out!'

I agree that having the kids do it could have more weight.  BUT....I have to wonder if any kids that are the ages that we're talking about would feel comfortable or empowered enough to make a loud comment at her to get out.  At the time this happened, most of the really older kids are already gone.  When my sons initially saw her, the oldest had just gone in to wash his face; he isn't normally in there at that time.  And I think that younger kids might be uncomfortable with the woman in there, but they wouldn't necessarily feel they had the right to say anything, which is too bad.  And worse yet, they might not even consider that it's inappropriate, because (in the mind of a child) an adult is doing it, and adults (should) know better, so it must be OK, right?

Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2013, 11:13:48 PM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

GrammarNerd

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2013, 11:25:37 PM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside. 

Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2013, 11:31:42 PM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?

GrammarNerd

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2013, 11:40:34 PM »
Though I've never been in there, from their description, it sounds like the women's locker room, where you walk into the shower area and then the changing area with benches is beyond that.   All open and viewable from the door.

And I don't believe the onus should be on the kids to find somewhere in the male changing room where a female with inappropriate boundaries can't see them.  The onus should be on the ADULT to know the rules and adhere to them.

snowdragon

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2013, 12:13:07 AM »
Though I've never been in there, from their description, it sounds like the women's locker room, where you walk into the shower area and then the changing area with benches is beyond that.   All open and viewable from the door.

And I don't believe the onus should be on the kids to find somewhere in the male changing room where a female with inappropriate boundaries can't see them.  The onus should be on the ADULT to know the rules and adhere to them.

  No one of any age should have to find some where in their gender's locker room to change so that they will not be seen by some special snowflake of the opposite gender can have free access. This was not stand at the door and yell - it was walk in and look.  Really, even kindergartners know better at school.

DottyG

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2013, 01:23:50 AM »
Though I've never been in there, from their description, it sounds like the women's locker room, where you walk into the shower area and then the changing area with benches is beyond that.   All open and viewable from the door.

And I don't believe the onus should be on the kids to find somewhere in the male changing room where a female with inappropriate boundaries can't see them.  The onus should be on the ADULT to know the rules and adhere to them.

  No one of any age should have to find some where in their gender's locker room to change so that they will not be seen by some special snowflake of the opposite gender can have free access. This was not stand at the door and yell - it was walk in and look.  Really, even kindergartners know better at school.

This. The boys don't need to find a spot away from the door. They are in their designated room. And that's sufficient.

Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2013, 01:52:40 AM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?

OP's son, and every other boy in the changing room has been led to believe they have found a spot where they won't have women seeing them change the men's locker room. Period. They should not under any reasonable expectations have to do anything more then that to avoid females. By simple virtue of being in a male only space they have already taken active steps towards their goal.

Iris

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2013, 04:13:49 AM »
Though I've never been in there, from their description, it sounds like the women's locker room, where you walk into the shower area and then the changing area with benches is beyond that.   All open and viewable from the door.

And I don't believe the onus should be on the kids to find somewhere in the male changing room where a female with inappropriate boundaries can't see them.  The onus should be on the ADULT to know the rules and adhere to them.

  No one of any age should have to find some where in their gender's locker room to change so that they will not be seen by some special snowflake of the opposite gender can have free access. This was not stand at the door and yell - it was walk in and look.  Really, even kindergartners know better at school.

This. The boys don't need to find a spot away from the door. They are in their designated room. And that's sufficient.

Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

I agree. It is nothing to do with their motivations - I guarantee that very few men would sneak in with ulterior motives to look at my overweight, saggy, middle aged body - it's MY comfort. I am not comfortable being naked in front of any random man that wanders past. That is why I am in the FEMALE change room. That (general) you don't mind casual nudity is a personal choice but it's not one that others are entitled to make for you. If a man deliberately walked into the female changing rooms and I was told that *I* should be the one taking action I'd be livid. The woman shouldn't be in the changeroom, end of story.

On the OP if it happens again I'd say to heck with being polite. React exactly as you would if it were a man walking into the girls' changing room. Loudly say "What are you doing? Get out of there!"
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Sharnita

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2013, 07:34:05 AM »
I don't bicycle.  Don't see why people love it so much.  That being said, imagine if I looked at the beginning of a bicycle lane and said "Well, I don't get it and it isn't a big deal to me so I will just go ahead and drive in it.  If people really feel the need to bicycle in the bicycle lane they can do it a mile or so up the road."

It really doesn't matter if I get it or if it means much to me.  I need to respect it because it means something to other people.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2013, 08:14:55 AM »
Now, I will say there have been times when my older two have been taking forever to come out of the bathroom when all they had to do was #1.  I've gone to the door of the men's bathroom, pushed it open just a bit so they could hear me but I couldn't see anything and told them to hurry up or ask them what was taking so long. 

But I do agree what this woman did was overboard!
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LadyL

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2013, 09:23:07 AM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?

I see it both ways - as an adult I am much less phased by nudity than when I was younger. I'd probably be fine at a nude or topless beach (they don't have many around here). I guess my view of nudity is more "European" as in seeing a nipple won't kill anyone. But when I was younger, ESPECIALLY around puberty, I was super self conscious. I was the kid who changed in a bathroom stall. If I was changing in a locker room it was hard enough being around women - having a man peek his head in would have been panic attack inducing.

The convention in the U.S. is that nudity is segregated by gender and some people feel really strongly about upholding that for moral or safety reasons. It's a pretty big boundary to cross here, whether I personally feel like it's a big deal or not.

Eden

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2013, 10:04:36 AM »
I'm sort of in the middle. I see that it's inappropriate but also don't think it's that big of a deal. I think if the coach doesn't address it with her if it happens again I agree with approaching her telling her that your teenage son is in there changing and along with all of the other kids deserves some privacy. No big fuss. If she protests that her little one needs her, advise her that he should not be using the men's locker in that case.

Cami

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2013, 10:33:34 AM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?
No one should have to hide in a locker room to keep from being viewed by someone who has no business being in there. Period. Non-negotiable.