Author Topic: On what planet would this be OK? Minor update p#61  (Read 11489 times)

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Hmmmmm

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2013, 10:56:21 AM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?

OP's son, and every other boy in the changing room has been led to believe they have found a spot where they won't have women seeing them change the men's locker room. Period. They should not under any reasonable expectations have to do anything more then that to avoid females. By simple virtue of being in a male only space they have already taken active steps towards their goal.

POD... and it has nothing to do with whether you feel comfortable seeing or being seen in an undressed state by members of the opposite sex. The issue is their level of comfort.

And honestly, your comment of about them being "really upset" seems very dismissive of their feelings. My perception of it was "well, if there going to be little prudes about their bare butts being seen by a woman, then they can go hide somewhere."


Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption. 

NyaChan

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2013, 11:07:57 AM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

I would raise heck with the management that isn't taking steps to prevent what appears to be a repeated and easy to make mistake.  I'm not going to blame someone who wanders in unexpectedly, and runs out apologizing, but I'd be upset if it happened again or if management was aware it was happening but made no effort to prevent it or warn people inside that their privacy is not protected.

LeveeWoman

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2013, 11:09:33 AM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.

fountainof

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2013, 11:17:28 AM »
I feel that the OP's boys have a right not to be seen by women in a men's change room.  I think indicating that they should be the one to make concessions is unfair and puts it on them to adjust.  If these were teenage girls and it were a man calling in people would probably not suggest the girls try to hide in the corner, etc.

I don't even think it has anything to do with predators it has to do with respect, the door says men only, it is for men, woman, regardless of their parenting methods should respect that.

I think the boys are fine saying "excuse me, this the male change room please leave".  It is hard to say "get out" without raising your voice so "excuse me" comes off better.

I think if someone hears some screaming "help me" then it is okay for a woman to enter the men's locker room but if it ends up being a prank there should be a punishment as that kind of joking is not appropriate.

Carotte

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2013, 11:24:55 AM »
I don't bicycle.  Don't see why people love it so much.  That being said, imagine if I looked at the beginning of a bicycle lane and said "Well, I don't get it and it isn't a big deal to me so I will just go ahead and drive in it.  If people really feel the need to bicycle in the bicycle lane they can do it a mile or so up the road."

It really doesn't matter if I get it or if it means much to me.  I need to respect it because it means something to other people.

Love this explanation!
And I'll add that in this situation "Sharnita" could have no ill intent what-so-ever (to run over the bicyclists), but other drivers have in the past, so drivers in the bicycle lane is prohibited, so even if she doesn't plan on doing it and could coexist without problem, she won't be allowed to go on the lane anyway.
Bicyclists could be injured, or even just scared of seeing the car, and they shouldn't, since they are in their lane, where they were told they would only be amongst bicycles.

Surianne

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2013, 11:31:19 AM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

I would raise heck with the management that isn't taking steps to prevent what appears to be a repeated and easy to make mistake.  I'm not going to blame someone who wanders in unexpectedly, and runs out apologizing, but I'd be upset if it happened again or if management was aware it was happening but made no effort to prevent it or warn people inside that their privacy is not protected.

Okay, well, it didn't really bother me so I don't personally see any reason to raise heck in my case.  It simply wasn't a big deal to me.  I'm sure if someone else experiences the same issue they can raise all the heck they want.

Secret

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2013, 11:40:34 AM »
If you are going to encourage your sons to say something to the woman, I would also prepare them for the mom to snap back at the sons. Perhaps role playing may help your son with proper wording and phrasing he can use to tell her, himself that this is not okay because he feels uncomfortable and not be dismissed because he's a child.

Eeep!

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2013, 11:41:57 AM »
Although one typically thinks of male predators, it can work the other way too.  From another post, let me change the genders and see how it reads: 

I guess I'm going to go against the grain here and not totally vilify the man.  Mind you, I am NOT saying what he did is right - of course a man should not be in the girl's locker room.  But I can totally see how this situation could happen.  Your daughter says she left her goggles in the locker room. You tell her to go get them.  She goes in and then takes waaay longer than you think you should.  What do you do?  Now, if he had thought a bit better, he could have flagged a female down and asked them to please go into the locker room and find his daughter.  But  what if there wasn't someone to flag down?  I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but at some point - if my kid isn't coming out of the locker room- I'm going to open the door and yell for her.  What other option do I have? Yes, he absolutely shouldn't have stepped in.  But I could see someone doing that out of frustration with their kid. 
Again, I'm not saying that he was right, but maybe people should cut him a little slack.  It gets tough when your daughter is too old to accompany you to the men's room but still young enough that you worry.
If he repeatedly does this than there is an issue that needs to be addressed, but a one time thing? I personally don't think so.

Unless there is very good reason to believe that the child is in danger, not just taking annoyingly long to find their goggles, there is no reason for an adult to enter a children's locker room and particularly one for children of the opposite gender.

As that was my quote that you decided to use - I actually feel the same way.  Now, I hadn't realized it was a pattern, which changes for me. And I said that I didn't think that she (now he) should have stepped in.  So I still stand by my initial thought.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 11:43:36 AM by Eeep! »
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sparksals

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2013, 11:46:10 AM »
I'm not getting the big deal here, but I don't really understand why the gender divide is so important to begin with, I admit.  If your son is worried about her seeing him changing, maybe the best choice would be to change far away from the entrance?

In the female changeroom at my gym, it's not very well labelled, so men are always walking in there by accident.  If I'm naked I just say "Oh, this is ladies" and they apologize and leave.  Anyone can be a predator; gender doesn't really matter.  So I think this isn't as horrifyingly damaging as you're making it out to be.

Horrifyingly damaging, no.  Highly inappropriate, yes.  And I want my kids to be able to feel that they can change in peace without someone that they don't know of the opposite gender walking in on them.  And I don't want them to think that they have to put up with a mom who can't understand the very simple and straightforward boundary that a woman simply does NOT go into a male changing room, or even open the door and peer inside.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it.  If your kids are really upset buy the idea of a woman seeing them changing, I'm sure there are spots that are very far from the main door, so they'd never come in contact with her?  Or can she see the entire changeroom if she calls in the main door looking for her kids?


They should not have to do that in a change room on the chance one woman will walk in.  There are reasons for male and female change rooms being separated.  The point is, the woman should not be going in there.  Period.  It is highly inappropriate. 

snowdragon

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2013, 12:35:44 PM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.


Doesn't matter = the issue is the same. If one age group is to be respected in this manner the other should be too. Kids should not get less ( or more) respect on this issue than adults. and vice versa. And there are adults who think that because the kids are "just kids" they deserve less privacy and that others needs less privacy from their eyes. Neither is acceptable.
 

DottyG

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2013, 12:55:05 PM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.


Doesn't matter = the issue is the same. If one age group is to be respected in this manner the other should be too. Kids should not get less ( or more) respect on this issue than adults. and vice versa. And there are adults who think that because the kids are "just kids" they deserve less privacy and that others needs less privacy from their eyes. Neither is acceptable.
 

I agree completely.


DavidH

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »
I think there's a huge difference between an honest mistake and deliberately walking into the changing room for the other gender.

For an honest mistake, the right thing to do is apologize and leave as quickly as possible with a minimum of looking around.  For the person who is walked in on, it is unfortunate, but there's not much you can do.  If many people make the same mistake, then it makes sense to let the building management know so that they can improve signage or take other steps.

Deliberately walking into the other changing room or peering in is just wrong.  It's designated that way for a reason.  If the room is unisex, then anyone can be in there and there's no problem.  In a changing room designated men or women, the person changing should not have to modify their behavior to ensure a person of the opposite gender doesn't see them.  Just because one or a group doesn't mind if people of the other gender walk in doesn't make it remotely appropriate.  The inappropriateness is magnified when the changing room is for children of a specific gender and an adult of the other gender walks or peers in. 

Twik

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2013, 01:29:53 PM »
Surianne, I'd be raising heck in your case. Men just walking into the Ladies dressing area? No. Absolutely not. If it's a matter of not being labeled correctly, I'd be demanding that the place get some adequate signs put up TODAY. How convenient..."oops! Gee ladies, I didn't know this wasn't the men's area! Really! It was just an accident! Nice boobs there, by the way!" (Wink wink) No.

Why would I raise heck?  A couple of guys have walked in over the past year, but they were perfectly nice and apologetic (quite embarrassed about it, actually), so it really wasn't a problem at all.  Are you implying that they were doing it on purpose?  I think that's a very strange and mean-spirited assumption.

Exactly how poorly marked are your changing rooms that men are randomly wandering into the women's changing rooms? This is normally not a particularly easy mistake to make. If they're doing it innocently, and being embarrassed, something should be done for their sakes.
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LeveeWoman

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Re: On what planet would this be OK?
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2013, 01:35:51 PM »
This is not about adults walking in on other adults. This is about ad adult walking in on children.


Doesn't matter = the issue is the same. If one age group is to be respected in this manner the other should be too. Kids should not get less ( or more) respect on this issue than adults. and vice versa. And there are adults who think that because the kids are "just kids" they deserve less privacy and that others needs less privacy from their eyes. Neither is acceptable.

My point, which I obviously did not make clear, was that just because an adult doesn't get upset at being walked in on while naked does not mean that a kid should not get upset.