Author Topic: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?  (Read 4032 times)

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cwm

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 04:31:53 PM »
Okay, the first part about the uncle wanting to pay the tip, that's completely inappropriate IMO. The person in charge of the tip is the person in charge of the bill. If someone else wants to add MORE to the tip, they are always free to do so, but you cannot force the person paying the bill to tip less than they want to*.

Secondly, I won't speak for anyone else. But if I went to a restaurant and was treated that poorly by the waitstaff, if there were no other circumstances that I could see to explain it, I wouldn't tip as much. If it was absolutely swamped and there was only one waitress, she may just be extremely busy and not notice the drinks you need. Or remember exactly what they were.

The wrong entree problem had absolutely nothing to do with the server or the busboys, and their tip should not have been affected by it. That was a mistake by the kitchen. I will never penalize waitstaff for a kitchen mistake, and I will always give the waitstaff the benefit of the doubt. If it was fixed promptly by the manager, then I don't see a problem with it.

*My aunt is notorious for trying to control other people's tips. She and my uncle were treating all of uncle's siblings and their spouses to dinner one night. The service was wonderful, the food was great, and my dad wanted to leave an extra tip for the server in cash on top of whatever my uncle left. My aunt,  his SIL, actually took the cash he set down and tried to put it into her pocketbook because, in her words, "That waitress didn't deserve that much extra." The audacity of not only trying to dictate if someone else offers extra tip money, but to try to take it herself, appalled me when I heard the story.

MrsJWine

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 04:42:55 PM »
I think it's highly unlikely the manager would even be able to accept the tip. In my experience, this is a huge no-no, both for the culture of restaurant work, and as far as the rules go; any halfway decent manager would give it to whomever he felt deserved it. I think it's also highly unlikely he would give it to the waitress, and I don't think the food screwups would have been the busboys' fault to begin with. So I would have tipped the standard amount, maybe a little higher, but definitely not lower. And I would have given it to the manager ("This is for the busboys."). I wouldn't give it to the busboys directly because that would put them in the awkward position of having to decide whether or not to share it with the waitress.


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jaxsue

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2013, 04:43:19 PM »
Okay, the first part about the uncle wanting to pay the tip, that's completely inappropriate IMO. The person in charge of the tip is the person in charge of the bill. If someone else wants to add MORE to the tip, they are always free to do so, but you cannot force the person paying the bill to tip less than they want to*.

Secondly, I won't speak for anyone else. But if I went to a restaurant and was treated that poorly by the waitstaff, if there were no other circumstances that I could see to explain it, I wouldn't tip as much. If it was absolutely swamped and there was only one waitress, she may just be extremely busy and not notice the drinks you need. Or remember exactly what they were.

The wrong entree problem had absolutely nothing to do with the server or the busboys, and their tip should not have been affected by it. That was a mistake by the kitchen. I will never penalize waitstaff for a kitchen mistake, and I will always give the waitstaff the benefit of the doubt. If it was fixed promptly by the manager, then I don't see a problem with it.

*My aunt is notorious for trying to control other people's tips. She and my uncle were treating all of uncle's siblings and their spouses to dinner one night. The service was wonderful, the food was great, and my dad wanted to leave an extra tip for the server in cash on top of whatever my uncle left. My aunt,  his SIL, actually took the cash he set down and tried to put it into her pocketbook because, in her words, "That waitress didn't deserve that much extra." The audacity of not only trying to dictate if someone else offers extra tip money, but to try to take it herself, appalled me when I heard the story.

Per the bolded: my late MIL was known for that. It was embarrassing. We would wait until she left the restaurant, then leave more money on the table.

MrsJWine

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2013, 04:46:40 PM »
Okay, the first part about the uncle wanting to pay the tip, that's completely inappropriate IMO. The person in charge of the tip is the person in charge of the bill. If someone else wants to add MORE to the tip, they are always free to do so, but you cannot force the person paying the bill to tip less than they want to*.

Secondly, I won't speak for anyone else. But if I went to a restaurant and was treated that poorly by the waitstaff, if there were no other circumstances that I could see to explain it, I wouldn't tip as much. If it was absolutely swamped and there was only one waitress, she may just be extremely busy and not notice the drinks you need. Or remember exactly what they were.

The wrong entree problem had absolutely nothing to do with the server or the busboys, and their tip should not have been affected by it. That was a mistake by the kitchen. I will never penalize waitstaff for a kitchen mistake, and I will always give the waitstaff the benefit of the doubt. If it was fixed promptly by the manager, then I don't see a problem with it.

*My aunt is notorious for trying to control other people's tips. She and my uncle were treating all of uncle's siblings and their spouses to dinner one night. The service was wonderful, the food was great, and my dad wanted to leave an extra tip for the server in cash on top of whatever my uncle left. My aunt,  his SIL, actually took the cash he set down and tried to put it into her pocketbook because, in her words, "That waitress didn't deserve that much extra." The audacity of not only trying to dictate if someone else offers extra tip money, but to try to take it herself, appalled me when I heard the story.

Per the bolded: my late MIL was known for that. It was embarrassing. We would wait until she left the restaurant, then leave more money on the table.

My grandpa was kind of like this. He meant to be generous but was just completely out of touch with standard tipping practice. So, different motivations, but still completely mortifying. We always discreetly found a way to get back and get a tip to the server.


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mime

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2013, 04:50:25 PM »
I agree with HappilyInsane. I'd assume the manager is not sharing in the tip so it would reflect the poor service of those involved. In return for the manager's efforts, the restaurant would get my future business and keep me from telling my story to discourage family and friends from going there.

I do think it was inappropriate for the uncle to want to pay the tip, though. I've always assumed the tip amount was at the discretion of he-who-buys-the-dinner.


Surianne

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2013, 08:59:15 PM »
From what I'm used to, the tip would have been for the waitress, not the manager.  Based on the atrocious service, I likely would have tipped nothing, but would have thanked the manager for doing his best, and followed that up with a letter/email/call to the owner if appropriate.   

I am normally a very generous tipper, but if a waitress/waiter doesn't take care of me and doesn't apologize (I will cut lots of slack for a busy night) I don't see the point of giving her/him extra cash.

Kaypeep

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2013, 09:56:35 AM »
I think you handled things absolutely right. Your future ILs's behavior was niggardly, and I would suggest having a conversation with your fiance about how to handle things like this in the future. I would have been embarrassed in your shoes to have them go above and beyond to make up for a mistake like that only to be rewarded by a crappy tip. No "message" needed to have been sent, since they already "got the message" when the busboys and manager sprang into action to correct the waitress' mistake. Your ILs were just being punitive, or taking advantage of the fact that they could justify to themselves a lesser tip.

And I do NOT think it is necessary to attempt to direct the tip. The waitress is obviously not going to get it. (I highly doubt she's still working there.) Either the manager would take it for himself, or he would have split it amongst the busboys. It really doesn't matter, because the tip signifies your appreciation for the service, including everything they did to make up for their mistake.

I think the idea of giving an official complement about the manager to corporate or the owner is a great one. In future, your fiance would have every right to say "Thanks Dad, but this one is on me, and that includes the tip. I will "send the appropriate message." I've got it handled." If he can't disagree with his parents about something like this, or just take control of the situation, I would be potentially concerned when bigger issues come down the line.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.  I didn't give much thought to who gets the tip, I think my thought process was more along the lines of the bolded above, and that's why I didn't feel right leaving a low tip.  The busboys who came with the manager were different than the ones who assisted previously, so it was like we got a whole new team of people and I didn't want to penalize the 2nd crew because the first were lacking.

I didn't think it was too rude of uncle to offer to leave the tip because he was visiting from out of town and had been a guest for 2 weeks at FMIL's house where he had been treated the whole time, and I think he was trying to treat us for a change to thank everyone for their  hospitality, but SO wouldn't allow it and his mom has not once picked up a tab in all the years I've been out with her (though she rarely dines out anyway and if she does it's as very inexpensive places or fast food. She doesn't like "fancy" restaurants.)  Uncle also had the biggest and most expensive meal (huge lobster platter with about 6 other types of seafood added in) and I think that's why he was also trying to cover some of the cost of what he ate because it was a lot! (and good for him, he enjoyed it!)  It was an informal dinner, so no real "host", just family going out to enjoy seafood because uncle lives mid-country and missed fresh seafood.  In theory, we could have all just chipped in and paid our own way, there was no reason for anyone to pay it all themself.


VorFemme

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2013, 10:51:40 AM »
In order to ward off any further mod reports. the word "niggardly" does not mean what people believe it to mean, and in fact it's a perfectly inoffensive word. Here's the Merriam-Webster definition:

Adjective

Not generous; stingy: "the company was particularly niggardly with salaries"; "serving out the rations with a niggardly hand".
 

Adverb
In a stingy or meager manner.
 


Reminds me of the person who raised a stink about the labeling on the ink cartridges for the printer....that had "black" in three languages on them (Spanish word for black is "negro" - I don't remember the French word, sorry).  But she was convinced that having that word on there was racist.....

+++++

More to the point of the tipping situation - I have been a waitress.

There were times when the number of people who were coming in completely overwhelmed the number of staff on hand that evening (new movie theater on a weeknight when the two cooks and one waitress were usually BORED due to not many people wanting pizza - and nobody goes to a pizza joint for a beer, as it is not a bar & I was the waitress who was wishing she could be identical triplets).   

I have also seen times (as a waitress and as a customer) when there was adequate staff - but one of more of the "coworkers" quite obviously didn't feel like working that night and was passive-aggressive about not pulling their fair share of the workload (overheard comments from my coworkers or the staff when I was walking past a wait station on the way to the restrooms, if I was a customer).

Not knowing which situation was going on in the OP - I think that a slightly lower tip to the waitress (5% or so off the standard percentage in that area) and a letter to corporate (if a chain or owner/management if a single restaurant) praising the staff members who stepped up and tried to make up for the earlier failings was in order for the manager (as they don't usually get tips).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 11:10:38 AM by VorFemme »
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miranova

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2013, 11:02:12 AM »
I would not want the waitress to receive a standard tip either, since she didn't earn it.  If that makes me stingy, then I have to wonder what the point of tipping is in the first place.  Managers don't keep tips, that is not how they are paid.  It is within their job description to fix problems and are paid a salary for it.  The manager did exactly what he was supposed to do, which was fix the issue and try to leave a good taste in your mouth when you left.  The tip doesn't go to him. 

I will never understand this idea that a server that doesn't actually attend to the table at all deserves to be paid as if she did.

amylouky

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
I see the manager's reward for fixing the problem as that you are not going to call corporate and complain, and you may return to the restaurant in the future since he did make it right in the end. I think a good "tip" for that would be to call corporate with praise on how the manager took care of you once it was known there were problems.
I wouldn't have left the normal tip amount for the waitress. She didn't do her job, and she deserted you. That doesn't deserve a full tip.
I will say, though, I might reconsider if it was obvious that there was a reason for the bad service. If they are obviously short staffed, having mechanical problems, etc. then the bad service may not have been the fault of the server. It's usually hard to figure out if that is the case though.. was your server running around like crazy serving ten tables at once? Or was she chatting with coworkers or just disappearing for 20 mins even though she only had two tables?

Hmmmmm

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2013, 02:10:19 PM »
Managers do not ( or at least, SHOULD not) share in the tips. The Manager stepped up and made things right , took care of your table himself, and offered extra compensation and because of that, you paid full price for your meals. That made things equal, in my opinion, and the tip to the waitress and busser would have reflected the previous bad service.

If the Manager had corrected the immediate problems (missing and incorrect items) and then assigned a different waitress to my table for the remainder of the meal, then I would have tipped at my normal percentage.

 I commend the Manager for handling your table himself, (The bussers he brought along to help would have been doing things at his direction, not of their own accord) but at the end of the day, the tip is a reward for good service from the waitress..not the management.

This. A tip is to pay for service. For half your meal, you received very poor service from the waitress and bus boys were were in charge of providing service. I see no reason to tip them at the normal standard.

If the manager had assigned the table to a different server, I would have tipped that server at the standard rate.

But I've always been taught that managers and owners should not and do not accept tips. If they have to step in to remedy a situation then it is partly that they weren't doing THEIR job of training competent staff or in assuring they had sufficient staff available.

miranova

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2013, 02:41:51 PM »
Even if there is a reason, the bottom line is, either I received service or I didn't.  Even if someone has too many tables, why would they expect to be paid from a table that they weren't able to actually serve? 



amylouky

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2013, 02:45:33 PM »
Even if there is a reason, the bottom line is, either I received service or I didn't.  Even if someone has too many tables, why would they expect to be paid from a table that they weren't able to actually serve?

I guess the point I was trying to make was, the manager may have been trying to make up for a failure on the part of the entire restaurant that caused the bad service. I used to wait tables, and being shortstaffed was HORRIBLE. You'd have twice as many tables, be running around like a loon, and not be able to provide 100% service.. then end up making nothing in tips.

MrsJWine

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2013, 03:22:03 PM »
Even if there is a reason, the bottom line is, either I received service or I didn't.  Even if someone has too many tables, why would they expect to be paid from a table that they weren't able to actually serve?

I guess the point I was trying to make was, the manager may have been trying to make up for a failure on the part of the entire restaurant that caused the bad service. I used to wait tables, and being shortstaffed was HORRIBLE. You'd have twice as many tables, be running around like a loon, and not be able to provide 100% service.. then end up making nothing in tips.

Tangent: A lady actually chewed me out one day when I had half of the restaurant by myself and could not keep up. Most of the servers hadn't shown up that day. I don't remember why; maybe it was the flu going around, but I do remember that they weren't just lazy no-shows. I was really apologetic, explained what had happened while trying not to sound like an excuse-maker (if I'm angry about something, I like to know that someone has a reason and isn't just lazy). She told me that it was still our fault because we weren't prepared. By... magic? I don't know.


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miranova

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Re: If they fix the problem, is the 'full tip' still warranted?
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2013, 03:29:29 PM »
Some people will never be happy.  I am extremely forgiving if I see the server running around and working and doing their best to get to each table.