Author Topic: Was I Rude?  (Read 4050 times)

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Miss Unleaded

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2013, 04:05:12 PM »

As far as I have seen, trains don't normally hold on the station long enough to push a buggy to another door along the platform, assume you could even see that the luggage area was full from the platform.  In the OP's shoes I would have been more worried about missing the train or holding it up.

I also think that if you carry a folded buggy down the aisle, you're in danger of hitting someone in the head with it.

I honestly don't see that the OP did anything wrong in this situation.  She held people up for maybe thirty seconds, max, right?

kherbert05

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2013, 04:12:29 PM »
I teach 2nd grade - Kids that age don't always get what an excuse me in this situation means. When they were standing there looking at you - they were probably waiting for you or their adult to tell them what to do. It would have been faster for you to start with "Excuse me  please let me through? Also kids concepts of enough room to get by are usually off when applied to adults, because kids are smaller and more flexible. I tell my students "Thanks for the complement but I really can't fit through there, please move over there so I can get by you." or something similar at least weekly.

Here is my take on the situation (note this is coming from someone with little to no experience with daily public transportation because it is a joke in Houston)

Your family boarded the train. Your usual habit was disrupted because the place designated to store your stroller was full. You made a quick appraisal of the situation and decided the best way to be to the alternative storage area was to keep your DS in his stroller. You run into a problem in the form of 2 seven year old boys in the aisle.

They are excited and in unfamiliar surroundings (assumption) and don't immediately understand how to respond to your excuse me.

You appeal to their adult. Who makes excuses but doesn't help the children solve the problem.

You give the children a solution to the problem - which they promptly use without complaint.

Woman with them shoots daggers.

You go to the back of the train, put up the stroller and sit down.

Your come here get feedback, come up with a better plan of what to do if the front off the train storage is full.

You - Not rude
Kids - Not rude (Kid logic can be frustrating but isn't rude)
Woman - Rude for not helping the kids find a solution, and shooting daggers with her eyes.
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Hollanda

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2013, 04:21:41 PM »
Thanks kherbert.

Looking back,  I do realise these kids have quite possibly never seen tge sea. Yes. They were excited. I think my "Can you sit down please? " was an attempt to be more direct with them.  Time is short om trains and so are tempers!

Had DS been even 2 months younger I'd not have hesitated getting him out and carrying him. But the phase he's at now means tantrums are frequent. I guess I thought better a quiet,  cheerful Charlie than a screaming meltdown of a toddler,  on a train where there's nowhere to go. Once sitting down he's fine. But he wants to walk everywhere he can and is prone to protests.  We usually take him away from the situation but on a train there is nowhere.

 All that said I still made an error of judgement in thinking the buggy was small and therefore ok to go down the aisle.
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Acadianna

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2013, 07:08:44 PM »
I'm just going to POD Kherbert.  I couldn't have said it better.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 07:43:00 PM »
Even if you hadn't had the buggy, I think it would have been difficult to navigate down an aisle with two children playing in it.  I think you did just fine, especially because you learned where you *maybe* erred and how you can try not to do that again in the future.
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TootsNYC

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 11:01:38 PM »
There are SO many times when a stroller is simply the most useful and safe "handle" for carrying a child.

On the NYC subways, they have signs and announcements that say, "Why not fold your stroller and carry your child?" and I always want to scream, "because I don't have three hands!"

Honestly, if my toddler starts to squirm in my arms when I'm carrying him AND the stroller, AND my tote bag, he's going to get out of my grip and hurt himself. And I take up LESS room with the stroller, as long as it isn't a huge honker of one.

perpetua

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2013, 07:32:22 AM »
There are SO many times when a stroller is simply the most useful and safe "handle" for carrying a child.

On the NYC subways, they have signs and announcements that say, "Why not fold your stroller and carry your child?" and I always want to scream, "because I don't have three hands!"

Honestly, if my toddler starts to squirm in my arms when I'm carrying him AND the stroller, AND my tote bag, he's going to get out of my grip and hurt himself. And I take up LESS room with the stroller, as long as it isn't a huge honker of one.

I can well imagine that's the case, however, in relating this to the OP I'd point out that the interiors of NYC subway trains seem to have far more room in between the seats (although obviously I'm sure they're usually full of people, but while an unfolded pushchair would take up room that people could be in, it wouldn't create such a bottleneck).

The type of UK train being discussed in the OP would be something similar to this, if not this exactly:



(OP, this is the interior of an East Midlands train, is this correct?)

There's simply no way to take a pushchair down our trains without creating a massive bottleneck of frustrated people behind you who now can't get to a seat. Nobody coming up the other way can get past you, either. Heck, sometimes one struggles with bags on wheels or even large rucksacks, they're so narrow.

daisy1679

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2013, 10:24:21 AM »
There are SO many times when a stroller is simply the most useful and safe "handle" for carrying a child.

On the NYC subways, they have signs and announcements that say, "Why not fold your stroller and carry your child?" and I always want to scream, "because I don't have three hands!"

Honestly, if my toddler starts to squirm in my arms when I'm carrying him AND the stroller, AND my tote bag, he's going to get out of my grip and hurt himself. And I take up LESS room with the stroller, as long as it isn't a huge honker of one.

I can well imagine that's the case, however, in relating this to the OP I'd point out that the interiors of NYC subway trains seem to have far more room in between the seats (although obviously I'm sure they're usually full of people, but while an unfolded pushchair would take up room that people could be in, it wouldn't create such a bottleneck).

The type of UK train being discussed in the OP would be something similar to this, if not this exactly:



(OP, this is the interior of an East Midlands train, is this correct?)

There's simply no way to take a pushchair down our trains without creating a massive bottleneck of frustrated people behind you who now can't get to a seat. Nobody coming up the other way can get past you, either. Heck, sometimes one struggles with bags on wheels or even large rucksacks, they're so narrow.

Yes, but it wasn't Hollanda creating the bottleneck, it was the two little boys playing in the aisle. I can't believe the number of people who think she was the problem, when she clearly was not. It is *never* ok for kids to play in the aisle, but I would give anyone a pass for needing to take a stroller through when the stroller area is full on the side they got on.

Holland, I think you were fine, and the boys and mommy were totally rude. I have two little boys, and they can be kept in their seats no matter how excited they are (they may not be sitting still and quiet, but they would be out of everyone else's way).

perpetua

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2013, 10:33:34 AM »
Nobody's saying the kids weren't in the wrong, daisy1679 (although as has been pointed out, they probably didn't get the subtlety of 'excuse me' meaning Hollanda wanted to get past, and they did sit down when asked to more specifically). What we are saying is that had she not been attempting to take the stroller down there, holding up all the people behind her in the process, and which isn't really the done thing, this exchange never would have needed to happen in the first place.

This just isn't the done thing in my neck of the woods. Perhaps in Hollanda's part of the country people wouldn't bat an eyelid at it, but here it would likely get you looked at a bit funny. Prams create all sorts of awful bottlenecks on the transport where I live (ever seen one on a rush hour bus?), which is why we have the 'fold up the stroller' rule, albeit sometimes unspoken.

camlan

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2013, 10:41:48 AM »
The trains I've been on, two small children in the aisle would have kept any adult from getting down the aisle, unless the adult pushed/bumped them to the side. So in my mind, it's not the buggy that's the issue, it's the kids in the aisle when people are trying to get onto the train and into their seats.

If the buggy was small enough to get down the aisle, it was not causing the bottleneck. The children who were in the aisle were causing the bottleneck. Therefore it was not rude to ask them to clear the aisle.
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edgypeanuts

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2013, 10:53:34 AM »


Yes, but it wasn't Hollanda creating the bottleneck, it was the two little boys playing in the aisle. I can't believe the number of people who think she was the problem, when she clearly was not. It is *never* ok for kids to play in the aisle, but I would give anyone a pass for needing to take a stroller through when the stroller area is full on the side they got on.


Yes!  People keep saying she shouldn't have taken the stroller down the aisle, but how?  If the buggy area was full, her options were to carry the child AND the stroller which still would not have made it past 2.boys in the.aisle (and the risk of hurting/hitting someone accidentally with the folded stroller is increased) or pushing him down the aisle.  It is not as if the stroller could be levatated to the back of the train!

perpetua

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2013, 11:01:57 AM »


Yes, but it wasn't Hollanda creating the bottleneck, it was the two little boys playing in the aisle. I can't believe the number of people who think she was the problem, when she clearly was not. It is *never* ok for kids to play in the aisle, but I would give anyone a pass for needing to take a stroller through when the stroller area is full on the side they got on.


Yes!  People keep saying she shouldn't have taken the stroller down the aisle, but how?  If the buggy area was full, her options were to carry the child AND the stroller which still would not have made it past 2.boys in the.aisle (and the risk of hurting/hitting someone accidentally with the folded stroller is increased) or pushing him down the aisle.  It is not as if the stroller could be levatated to the back of the train!

I believe she said she had her DH with her. One of them could have carried the child and the other the folded buggy.

People can get past each other in the aisle if they turn sideways. Had she not been pushing the stroller, they probably could have got past the boys and there wouldn't have been the stalemate or the holding up of passengers behind her.

Having a little look around some of the train operating companies' conditions of carriage, many of them state that buggies must be folded.

None of this is to say that the boys should have been playing in the aisle, of course, which they shouldn't have.

I don't think anyone's saying that Hollanda caused the problem outright but I do think she contributed to it.

Surianne

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2013, 12:07:44 PM »
I don't think you were rude at all here.  Definitely not to ask the boys to move and sit down.  I can't fully speak to the buggy issue if there are specific rules about it where you are, but here it would have been perfectly normal and the most convenient method to push it, as you did.  It would be expected that the aisles were clear.

White Lotus

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2013, 12:19:09 PM »
Hollandia = not rude.  If the stroller/buggy can be rolled down the aisle, it is faster and easier to roll it than cause bottleneck in the baggage area by trying to fold it up and redistribute the load between H and her husband.  You get on.  There are people behind you who need to get on before the doors close.  The baggage area is full.  The fastest thing is to head down the aisle to the other baggage or bike area.  It will take a little sorting, but cause much less delay and inconvenience  than blocking the entry, which seems to be at the end of the car on this train.  I have taken trains with this configuration hauling luggage.  Unless there is a clear space in the baggage area to step aside and let others pass, the only possible thing to do is to make for the other end at the fastest possible speed.  Mother of aisle blocking kids = rude.  It is one's responsibility as a parent to keep ones's children from annoying or blocking others, to teach them what "excuse me" means, and not to get bent out of shape when someone asks your kids to move when you weren't paying attention.  She should have actually corralled the children and apologized.

LeveeWoman

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Re: Was I Rude?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2013, 01:02:07 PM »


Yes, but it wasn't Hollanda creating the bottleneck, it was the two little boys playing in the aisle. I can't believe the number of people who think she was the problem, when she clearly was not. It is *never* ok for kids to play in the aisle, but I would give anyone a pass for needing to take a stroller through when the stroller area is full on the side they got on.


Yes!  People keep saying she shouldn't have taken the stroller down the aisle, but how?  If the buggy area was full, her options were to carry the child AND the stroller which still would not have made it past 2.boys in the.aisle (and the risk of hurting/hitting someone accidentally with the folded stroller is increased) or pushing him down the aisle.  It is not as if the stroller could be levatated to the back of the train!

I believe she said she had her DH with her. One of them could have carried the child and the other the folded buggy.

People can get past each other in the aisle if they turn sideways. Had she not been pushing the stroller, they probably could have got past the boys and there wouldn't have been the stalemate or the holding up of passengers behind her.

Having a little look around some of the train operating companies' conditions of carriage, many of them state that buggies must be folded.

None of this is to say that the boys should have been playing in the aisle, of course, which they shouldn't have.

I don't think anyone's saying that Hollanda caused the problem outright but I do think she contributed to it.

From Hollanda's No. 17 post yesterday: Had DS been even 2 months younger I'd not have hesitated getting him out and carrying him. But the phase he's at now means tantrums are frequent. I guess I thought better a quiet,  cheerful Charlie than a screaming meltdown of a toddler,  on a train where there's nowhere to go. Once sitting down he's fine. But he wants to walk everywhere he can and is prone to protests.  We usually take him away from the situation but on a train there is nowhere.

It sound to me as if Hollanda did the best for everyone involved, including passengers who weren't involved at all.