parenting backbone sighted!

[wonderfullyanonymous]

We get home, I get the groceries put away, and my daughter asks if they can have their candy. I tell her she may have her, but your brother is not getting his for his naughty behavior in the store. I opened hers and gave it to her, and opened his and took a bite out of it. I told him he would not get his, and he stood there waiting.

My daughters chin hit the floor, and she asked if she could give him some of hers, and I told her no, he was naughty ion the store, he would not get it. He dropped onto the floor, and threw a tantrum. I told him he was not going to get his candy bar for how he behaved.

He never acted up again, like he did.

My DD was a very good girl until about a year ago; every day has become a battle. I've tried this withholding treats thing several times this summer and it will.not.sink.in. All she gets from it is "I earned it, Mom said yes, Mom took it away when I was done earning it, why should I try earning something again?" Argh.

I honestly don't know if this would have worked had their only been one child, but when DS saw DD get her treat, and I reiterated to him that his behavior after buying said treat was the reason he lost it, sunk in.

My youngest DS, that kid tested me every step of the way. He was spanked 2 times when he was little. The first time did not stop his bad behavior, and we started a new form of discipline with him, the second one, he ran out into the road, I think I scared him more than anything, and he never went near the road again.

YDS's behavior modification came in the form of time-outs, I wouldn't let him watch his TV shows, I'd put on something I wanted to watch instead. I took away toys and books. He was a challenge when he was little.  We would walk into a store, he would ask if he could walk. I would say, okay, but you have to stay right by me, if you take off, you will be put in the cart. He would last less than 5 minutes before he was sitting in the seat of the cart.

I had people tell me he was like that because I was easier on him than I was on the other 2, but I had to be strickter with him.

[CakeEater]

I had people tell me he was like that because I was easier on him than I was on the other 2, but I had to be strickter with him.

Oh gosh, I hated people saying that DS was an easier baby because he was my second and I was obviously just more relaxed with him, as if a baby's whole personality is in response to their mother's state of mind. No. From the moment of birth, he was a different baby, and I did absolutely nothing different. I was, in fact, probably more stressed, because DD had been so difficult that I was all tense in anticipation of him ariving.

The doctor told me when I was 10 days overdue CRIVINS! him that I was the first pregnant woman he'd seen who was happy about being 10 days overdue. Hey, he was quiet in there, and easy to feed, and I could sleep, even if he was awake.

[GSNW]

Good one from today!  DH and I flew this morning on a 90-minute flight to visit FIL.  When we got to our seats, there were two kids under six in the row in front of us and one in the row behind.  I'll admit I did an inward sigh. 

However, the woman in front of us kept her kids engaged in conversation and they were quiet and perfectly pleasant.  The younger boy in the row behind us got very excited and started kind of shrieking in joy at take-off, and dad gently reminded him that he was too loud.

When we landed and there was the push to get off the plane, mom in front told her kids, "You will NOT push, you will NOT hurry, you WILL sit until I tell you to get up, and be patient."  She said this very nicely, but I appreciated that she was taking time to remind them of how to act in the smoosh of people.  Hooray!

[turnip]

We were on the plain with DD (2) not long ago.  On the way out a co-passenger complimented us on her behavior.  I smiled, but smirked inwardly - she had slept the whole flight!   Strangers are so bad at judging parenting that their opinion holds no value in my eyes.

Mostly, IHMO, when you judge other parents you are judging struggling people in the middle of a bad situation.  I occasionally get whiffs of judgment with DS, who is non-obviously but severely disabled. 

[Micah]

We were on the plain with DD (2) not long ago.  On the way out a co-passenger complimented us on her behavior.  I smiled, but smirked inwardly - she had slept the whole flight!   Strangers are so bad at judging parenting that their opinion holds no value in my eyes.

Mostly, IHMO, when you judge other parents you are judging struggling people in the middle of a bad situation.  I occasionally get whiffs of judgment with DS, who is non-obviously but severely disabled.

This! The random judgement of people who are seeing a snapshot in time means nothing to me. If I see a parent struggling with a tantruming child I never thing, "What a bad parent! She obviously does this, this and this....how dare she inflict her poor parenting on me!" I walk away feeling sympathetic, because I've been there. I've been there soooo many times. My son is six now and mostly well behaved, but it has taken YEARS to get there. I've done five different parenting courses, I've tried every discipline technique under the sun. Spanking has NEVER worked, time outs work sometimes. Removal of privileges works, sometimes. Reasoning with him works, sometimes. As other posters have said, children and not carbon copies. Every child is different, some are easier than others and some are oh, sooooo much harder.

My mother is the most patient person I know. She has raised four, respectful, successful children. She once told me, after I'd rung her in tears, completely at my wits end and feeling like the worst parent in the world, "Love, while I adore my grandchild completely, looking after him on his own is more difficult than taking care of three toddlers at once. You are doing the best you can with an incredibly opinionated, intelligent and stubborn child. Breathe, you'll get through this."

So, when I see a mother standing red faced at the check out, while her toddler writhes on the floor and screams, I think, "I wonder how many times she was woken last night because he/she just wouldn't STAY in bed? I wonder if that child's father ever takes the child and says, "Have a sleep, read a book, visit a friend, I can see you're not coping." And most of all, I know that feeling of red hot, burning embarrassment. The feeling of complete and utter failure and the desire to just sink into the floor, or burst into tears. But you don't, because you have to pay, scoop your child off the floor, wrestle him into the car seat and load the groceries, while people stare, glare and mutter because you MUST be doing something terribly wrong for your child to behave like that. Only children who aren't disciplined throw tantrums, and we should go back to the day when you just got out the wooden spoon when you got home.

[AnnaJ]

A huge part of our perception about parents and children comes from the fact that kids are in the public far more than they were a few decades ago.  As a mid-baby boomer, I and my friends spent a lot more time at home (well, playing in the neighborhood) - restaurants meals were very infrequent, maybe three or four times a year; we didn't always go to the store with mom and shopping trips were also infrequent.

I'm not saying this in a 'things were better then' tone, but pointing out that we had a lot more down time to be kids, outside of the public eye, and adults were less exposed to poor behavior in restaurants, stores, airplanes, and other places.

[wonderfullyanonymous]

IMHO, I feel that it's how a parent approaches a punishment. If you tell a child that they are going to have X happen if Y continues happening, then you do it. No reasoning, no need to keep explaining, no second chances.

"Child, I told you to stop doing X, we are now doing Y." No need to keep talking to child at that point, except maybe to say, I will be back when you are done with Y.

Kids learn that if you are not serious about the punishment, they can walk all over you. You, being the parent, must instill discipline. It's not always easy, but it's a necessary evil.

As a cashier, I can tell what parents are consistant, and what parents aren't. When a look stops a kid dead in his/her tracks, I know that parent does not mess around.

The kid who stands there and says please 1000 times, until his/her mom finally says yes, has beat the system. My "favorites" are the ones who throw a tantrum until their mother says, "Fine, get it, now shut the "F" up."

[CakeEater]

We were on the plain with DD (2) not long ago.  On the way out a co-passenger complimented us on her behavior.  I smiled, but smirked inwardly - she had slept the whole flight!   Strangers are so bad at judging parenting that their opinion holds no value in my eyes.

Mostly, IHMO, when you judge other parents you are judging struggling people in the middle of a bad situation.  I occasionally get whiffs of judgment with DS, who is non-obviously but severely disabled.

This! The random judgement of people who are seeing a snapshot in time means nothing to me. If I see a parent struggling with a tantruming child I never thing, "What a bad parent! She obviously does this, this and this....how dare she inflict her poor parenting on me!" I walk away feeling sympathetic, because I've been there. I've been there soooo many times. My son is six now and mostly well behaved, but it has taken YEARS to get there. I've done five different parenting courses, I've tried every discipline technique under the sun. Spanking has NEVER worked, time outs work sometimes. Removal of privileges works, sometimes. Reasoning with him works, sometimes. As other posters have said, children and not carbon copies. Every child is different, some are easier than others and some are oh, sooooo much harder.

My mother is the most patient person I know. She has raised four, respectful, successful children. She once told me, after I'd rung her in tears, completely at my wits end and feeling like the worst parent in the world, "Love, while I adore my grandchild completely, looking after him on his own is more difficult than taking care of three toddlers at once. You are doing the best you can with an incredibly opinionated, intelligent and stubborn child. Breathe, you'll get through this."

So, when I see a mother standing red faced at the check out, while her toddler writhes on the floor and screams, I think, "I wonder how many times she was woken last night because he/she just wouldn't STAY in bed? I wonder if that child's father ever takes the child and says, "Have a sleep, read a book, visit a friend, I can see you're not coping." And most of all, I know that feeling of red hot, burning embarrassment. The feeling of complete and utter failure and the desire to just sink into the floor, or burst into tears. But you don't, because you have to pay, scoop your child off the floor, wrestle him into the car seat and load the groceries, while people stare, glare and mutter because you MUST be doing something terribly wrong for your child to behave like that. Only children who aren't disciplined throw tantrums, and we should go back to the day when you just got out the wooden spoon when you got home.

I think I love you.

[Piratelvr1121]

I love a phrase my friend told me about once, that her mother used to use.  "No one performs without an audience".  It was mentioned when my oldest son would burst into tears and cry that I was being sooooooooooooo unfair" then stomp to his room and make a big production of crying so that we would be sure to know just how miserable he was.

Now for the most part he's grown out of it, partly due to age, and partly because I did follow friend's advice and when he'd start in on one of his arias, as friend called them, I'd just pretend I couldn't hear it even though I really wanted to scream at him to knock it off.   Though that's a lot easier to stick to at home than it is in public, but then he really only did that sort of thing at home.

[nayberry]

loving the variety of responses,  just for the record, as i don't have children i go by my babysitting experience (yes i know its very different).

my friends child pushes the limits with her parents but she knows i won't stand for pouting and crying when she gets told no.


i suppose my main viewpoint is from growing up knowing what was and wasn't accepted by my parents.  we were all very well behaved when out (if i do say so myself) as if we'd misbehaved that was it home and no treats.  i never even had a teenage rebellion as i'm the very sensible one, although my younger sib's, oyyy!!!!

[medowynd]

I know children can be difficult and throw tantrums at the most awkward moments.  The one instance that irks me is when the child is having a fit and the parent, usually the mother, stands there, covering her face with embarrassment and not addressing the child.  I know a tantruming child is embarrassing, but covering your face is not going to make it stop.  On one occasion, the head clerk walked over to the child and said that they do not allow screaming in the store.  The child stopped, rather in shock, and the mother continued to try to hide her face.  The oblivious father continued to unload the cart and completely ignored what was going on.

[asb8]

The one instance that irks me is when the child is having a fit and the parent, usually the mother, stands there, covering her face with embarrassment and not addressing the child. 

I don't have kids but I frequently babysit my godson and I must say, he tantrums when he wants attention (stop looking at the apples and sing LOUDLY to meeeeee"!) or when he wants to leave wherever we are (this kid is a homebody and will make it clear when he done with whatever errand we are running).  If I speak to him, even to tell him to stop, its rewarding what he wants.  Not acknowledging the fit is the only way his parents are breaking him of this habit. 

The "I want to leave" tantrums are sooo hard to deal with, because I don't want to subject the public to it but if I take him out then I'm rewarding the behavior.

[AnnaJ]

The "I want to leave" tantrums are sooo hard to deal with, because I don't want to subject the public to it but if I take him out then I'm rewarding the behavior.

Is there an immediate followup punishment that you find effective?  Something that makes it clear that you may have left but it's not a win for him because 'X' will happen?  To be clear, I'm not advocating anything that goes against your personal parenting ethics, but something that you already do in other circumstances.

I say this because I understand what you're trying to accomplish, but I've been in stores where multiple children have been tantruming and I've simply walked out with a headache - and restaurants?  I'm out of there, having told the manager exactly why.  When people see parents not removing screaming children from stores it does look as though they (parents) are ignoring the situation, which doesn't create a lot of good feelings.

[turnip]

I love a phrase my friend told me about once, that her mother used to use.  "No one performs without an audience". 

I'd be a much happier person if I didn't know how very wrong your friend and her mom were.  A better saying - "No one knows what other people are struggling with". 

[asb8]

The "I want to leave" tantrums are sooo hard to deal with, because I don't want to subject the public to it but if I take him out then I'm rewarding the behavior.

Is there an immediate followup punishment that you find effective?  Something that makes it clear that you may have left but it's not a win for him because 'X' will happen?  To be clear, I'm not advocating anything that goes against your personal parenting ethics, but something that you already do in other circumstances.

I say this because I understand what you're trying to accomplish, but I've been in stores where multiple children have been tantruming and I've simply walked out with a headache - and restaurants?  I'm out of there, having told the manager exactly why.  When people see parents not removing screaming children from stores it does look as though they (parents) are ignoring the situation, which doesn't create a lot of good feelings.

Unfortunately, he's barely 2 and he's not good at making the 'I did this wrong thing, so this unpleasant thing happened' connection yet. When he's in that mood, the unpleasant consequence is staying in the store.  Right now, his parents (and by extension me when I have him) will leave and come back later if they are not within 5-10 minutes of being able to check out and go.  If they are very close to the end, they'll hustle and finish.

This really is making his mother crazy. She tries small trips, long trips, toys to distract him, let him ride, let him walk, go right after the nap, go in the sweet spot between naps, different stores, different times of day. He does this with me, with Mommy, with Daddy.  There is no predictable pattern or variable to eliminate.  Makes errand running soooo much fun!