parenting backbone sighted!

[CakeEater]

Yes, and when the people who tell you you're being too easy on your kids leave, the ones who tell you you're being too hard on them arrive.

Everyone thinks they've arrived at the magical sweet spot between too tough and too soft, I think. And anyone who's easier on their kids than you are is some kind of hippy and anyone who's harder is a tyrant.

It's great to salute good parenting, I think. But unless you have really intimate knowledge of someone's parenting philosophy and actions, the issues their kids have, and other pressures in their family, no-one's in a position to judge whether someone else is a good parent. And especially if the judgement is based solely on the evidence of their kids' behaviour, and their action, or lack thereof, in a single situation.

[Slartibartfast]

Once when Babybartfast was around three and had a full-on meltdown at Target, I dragged her into the bathroom and turned on the hand dryers.  This particular Target has dryers which sound like repurposed F16 engines and Babybartfast still won't voluntarily use the bathroom there because they scare her.  They did, however, cover over the sounds of a tantrum very nicely, and as a bonus she behaves very well at that particular store now because she's scared I'll do it again.

[esposita]

Yes, and when the people who tell you you're being too easy on your kids leave, the ones who tell you you're being too hard on them arrive.

Everyone thinks they've arrived at the magical sweet spot between too tough and too soft, I think. And anyone who's easier on their kids than you are is some kind of hippy and anyone who's harder is a tyrant.

It's great to salute good parenting, I think. But unless you have really intimate knowledge of someone's parenting philosophy and actions, the issues their kids have, and other pressures in their family, no-one's in a position to judge whether someone else is a good parent. And especially if the judgement is based solely on the evidence of their kids' behaviour, and their action, or lack thereof, in a single situation.

Exactly. You said this so nicely!

[CakeBeret]

Once when Babybartfast was around three and had a full-on meltdown at Target, I dragged her into the bathroom and turned on the hand dryers.  This particular Target has dryers which sound like repurposed F16 engines and Babybartfast still won't voluntarily use the bathroom there because they scare her.  They did, however, cover over the sounds of a tantrum very nicely, and as a bonus she behaves very well at that particular store now because she's scared I'll do it again.

Creative parenting salute to you

[LadyL]

Once when Babybartfast was around three and had a full-on meltdown at Target, I dragged her into the bathroom and turned on the hand dryers.  This particular Target has dryers which sound like repurposed F16 engines and Babybartfast still won't voluntarily use the bathroom there because they scare her.  They did, however, cover over the sounds of a tantrum very nicely, and as a bonus she behaves very well at that particular store now because she's scared I'll do it again.

This is brilliant! Instrumental conditioning at its finest.

I know that some people really hate comparisons of pets to children, but I will say that having a highly intelligent and stubborn cat has shown me that even if you do everything "right" they can still be a brat. Our cat went through a biting phase where he would go from sitting in your lap purring, to trying to playfully nip me. He wouldn't stop sometimes unless I kicked him out of the room completely. I tried scruffing him, saying "no!" firmly, blowing air in his face, anticipating the bites and kicking him off my lap beforehand, tossing him out of the room, and none of it worked. He hated me blowing in his face but one time I did it literally 8 times in a row (I was counting to see if it would work after a certain number of times), and all 8 times as soon as I stopped blowing he lunged back at me to bite. Finally I had to just keep water bottles all around the house to spray him as soon as he got started biting. Even still, he kept trying to do it, and only VERY recently has stopped. I think he grew out of it more than anything.

[lowspark]

Just now reading through this thread and I wanted to comment on the under-two year old who just wants to go home. Sometimes you just have to look at it from the kid's point of view. A two year old has so little control over anything in his life and when he's forced into a situation that he just doesn't want to be in, grocery shopping for example, there's little else for him to do but pitch a fit.

And I do understand that not everyone can be housebound. I was a single mom for a while so I really know that you just have to drag the kid(s) along on errands sometimes or they just won't get done.

So I used the preemptive method (along the lines of what shygirl mentioned). You give them the reward before the event and explain that this is payment in advance for behaving well. Yeah, it's a bribe. But I don't see it quite like that because in a case like this, you are asking the child to go above and beyond. You're asking him to put up with being tired/hungry/uncomfortable/whatever while you get your errand (which holds no meaning for the child) done.

As the child ages, s/he becomes better able to handle these situations and also becomes better able to communicate needs and annoyances without crying or screaming. Then the bribes can diminish and fall by the wayside.

But I see nothing wrong with a negotiation and peace offering in advance of putting your child in an uncomfortable situation over which s/he has no control. We do that sort of thing with adults all the time, right? I'll do this for you if you will do that for me in return.

[mbbored]

Just now reading through this thread and I wanted to comment on the under-two year old who just wants to go home. Sometimes you just have to look at it from the kid's point of view. A two year old has so little control over anything in his life and when he's forced into a situation that he just doesn't want to be in, grocery shopping for example, there's little else for him to do but pitch a fit.

And I do understand that not everyone can be housebound. I was a single mom for a while so I really know that you just have to drag the kid(s) along on errands sometimes or they just won't get done.

So I used the preemptive method (along the lines of what shygirl mentioned). You give them the reward before the event and explain that this is payment in advance for behaving well. Yeah, it's a bribe. But I don't see it quite like that because in a case like this, you are asking the child to go above and beyond. You're asking him to put up with being tired/hungry/uncomfortable/whatever while you get your errand (which holds no meaning for the child) done.

As the child ages, s/he becomes better able to handle these situations and also becomes better able to communicate needs and annoyances without crying or screaming. Then the bribes can diminish and fall by the wayside.

But I see nothing wrong with a negotiation and peace offering in advance of putting your child in an uncomfortable situation over which s/he has no control. We do that sort of thing with adults all the time, right? I'll do this for you if you will do that for me in return.

For the record, obviously I know that children are NOT pets. However when I had issues with my dog, this is what my behaviorist had me do. Reward him for good behavior when we're not in a stressful situation, right before we do something he doesn't like. That way he goes in in a good mood and with a positive association with an otherwise negative trigger.

[Piratelvr1121]

Hm.  Maybe I'll start giving my littlest one a treat before bath time, maybe that would cut down on the caterwaulin' he does. 

[Slartibartfast]

Hm.  Maybe I'll start giving my littlest one a treat before bath time, maybe that would cut down on the caterwaulin' he does.

Is he old enough for multivitamins yet?  We keep ours in the basket under the showerhead (to prevent Babybartfast from helping herself at other times) and I think getting her vitamins - which, I'll admit, are basically gummy bears with a weird aftertaste - really does help her quit procrastinating and get upstairs to start her bedtime routine!

[kherbert05]

I had one of those backpack for Loren one summer - after I had nasty allergic reaction. I couldn't hold her hand in a crowd, because my hands were raw. I most people who said anything wanted to know where to get one. One guy gave me the kids shouldn't be leashes thing. I held up my hands and said I can't hold her hand. She was good about staying with me.


The stories about runaways reminded me of this -
Last year we had an interesting trip to the zoo. Brett had this shirt on that was a weird shade of green. It was the exact same shade as the Zoo Day camp used for his age group. The staff kept trying to catch him thinking he was lost/a runaway from his group.

[Piratelvr1121]

Hm.  Maybe I'll start giving my littlest one a treat before bath time, maybe that would cut down on the caterwaulin' he does.

Is he old enough for multivitamins yet?  We keep ours in the basket under the showerhead (to prevent Babybartfast from helping herself at other times) and I think getting her vitamins - which, I'll admit, are basically gummy bears with a weird aftertaste - really does help her quit procrastinating and get upstairs to start her bedtime routine!

Hmm, not a bad idea.  He's 21 months and he could handle a gummy vitamin. 

[HoneyBee42]

One of my very good friends has a 6-year-old son with severe autism.  He's also HUGE for his age (bigger than most 9-10-year-olds).  She gets so many dirty looks from people who see him and judge him for not acting like the ten-year-old they expect him to be, who don't care that he's minimally verbal, mostly non-communicative, and SIX @#$#@ YEARS OLD.  I dare you to find even a genius-level neurotypical six-year-old who would behave like an ideal ten-year-old all the time!

Yes, that "big for age" can be a major trial, even with a neurotypical child--that would be my youngest son, who is currently 12 years old, stands in at 5'9", which would still put him at the top of the chart for boys a year older than he is.  He started out as my smallest child (5lbs, 17.5 inches at birth), but overtook his sister who was a half pound heavier and a half inch longer at birth by the time they were 4 months, and by the time that they were 2, his size was such that they looked like they were a year apart, and I've spent the better part of the last decade fending off people who want to be critical of him because they thought he was older than he actually is (or was at the time). 

Being a "top of the chart" child (or even off the chart on the high side) doesn't cause a child to develop faster in terms of maturity/speech development/coordination etc.  And it really gets old in a *hurry* when people think your child is 1-2 years older and expecting the behavior appropriate to a child who is 1-2 years older, and you're setting them straight with a "well, actually, he's only x-2" (where x = the age they think he is).  It also didn't help things that middle son was, until rather recently (he's been shooting up and is now a solid 50th percentile for height but is 1.5 inches shorter than his younger brother), a complete "bottom of the chart" child, such that his 34 month age advantage had him looking more like youngest son's twin, so people would get down on youngest son for not acting as mature as middle son ("well, actually, middle son is almost three years older than youngest son").  It has gotten a bit easier now that they're older, except for things like finding sneakers that a 12 year old likes in the size 12 men's shoe section.

[TootsNYC]

...That's pretty much the conclusion his parents have come to.  Like I said, all involved parties recognize that the No One wants to deal with a  tantrum. Even those (parents, doting godmother) who are obligated too. 

Have you tried carrying him in an uncomfortable manner?

When walk-away isn't an option, I have picked up DD by the waist and let her feet and head dangle.  She gets so indignant at the position she is in, that she changes gears and wants down or to be held differently.  And, she is willing to promise good behavior.

When my youngest misbehaved, I make him walk with me while I held his *arm*. Not his hand--his arm, as if it was a handle, and he was a package.

He hated it. It is a little bit demeaning, to be honest. Not so bad that I really felt awful, but bad enough that I knew it was unusual and negative for him. So whatever it was he did, he didn't do it again!


Re: leashes. When I was in junior high or high school, they weren't being sold as a product. But we went to the Iowa State Fair, and there was a woman who had a genuine dog leash clipped to her son in some way.

My mom saw it, and said, "look at that!" and made a beeline for her. I was SO embarrassed, and the woman looked really defensive. Until my mother said, "you are SO smart! What a genius you are! I bet people have been saying stuff to you about that leash, right? Well, you just ignore them, because you are a good mother, to give you child the freedom to walk around on his own, and to keep him from being scared if he gets lost. I probably shouldn't have interrupted you, but I just wanted you to know that I admire you."

The woman looked SO relieved and said, "thank you! that's exactly how I feel about it, but you're right, I've gotten a lot of negative comments."

[asb8]

...That's pretty much the conclusion his parents have come to.  Like I said, all involved parties recognize that the No One wants to deal with a  tantrum. Even those (parents, doting godmother) who are obligated too. 

Have you tried carrying him in an uncomfortable manner?

When walk-away isn't an option, I have picked up DD by the waist and let her feet and head dangle.  She gets so indignant at the position she is in, that she changes gears and wants down or to be held differently.  And, she is willing to promise good behavior.

I call that maneuver the 'potato sack.'  His mom uses it but I've always been a little reluctant because he isn't *my* child and it feels all sorts of oversteppy.  Even thought she's told me its fine.  I also have time out privileges that feel a little funky but that might because he thrashes when put in time out and gave me a black eye once!  Let's say he's a um...spirited child. 

I'll try the potato sack next time, simply because I can't stand being trapped in the house for hours on end.

[Dream]

One of my very good friends has a 6-year-old son with severe autism.  He's also HUGE for his age (bigger than most 9-10-year-olds).  She gets so many dirty looks from people who see him and judge him for not acting like the ten-year-old they expect him to be, who don't care that he's minimally verbal, mostly non-communicative, and SIX @#$#@ YEARS OLD.  I dare you to find even a genius-level neurotypical six-year-old who would behave like an ideal ten-year-old all the time!

Yes, that "big for age" can be a major trial, even with a neurotypical child--that would be my youngest son, who is currently 12 years old, stands in at 5'9", which would still put him at the top of the chart for boys a year older than he is.  He started out as my smallest child (5lbs, 17.5 inches at birth), but overtook his sister who was a half pound heavier and a half inch longer at birth by the time they were 4 months, and by the time that they were 2, his size was such that they looked like they were a year apart, and I've spent the better part of the last decade fending off people who want to be critical of him because they thought he was older than he actually is (or was at the time). 

Being a "top of the chart" child (or even off the chart on the high side) doesn't cause a child to develop faster in terms of maturity/speech development/coordination etc.  And it really gets old in a *hurry* when people think your child is 1-2 years older and expecting the behavior appropriate to a child who is 1-2 years older, and you're setting them straight with a "well, actually, he's only x-2" (where x = the age they think he is).  It also didn't help things that middle son was, until rather recently (he's been shooting up and is now a solid 50th percentile for height but is 1.5 inches shorter than his younger brother), a complete "bottom of the chart" child, such that his 34 month age advantage had him looking more like youngest son's twin, so people would get down on youngest son for not acting as mature as middle son ("well, actually, middle son is almost three years older than youngest son").  It has gotten a bit easier now that they're older, except for things like finding sneakers that a 12 year old likes in the size 12 men's shoe section.

I know this tale all too well. Likewise my 12 year old is 5 foot 9 but she is only in a size 10 feet so far *facepalm*. She has ASD and, although very high functioning, her behaviour sometimes causes consternation. Especially when you don't know that this beautiful, long limbed girl, who looks about 18 and is doing a commando roll under a gate, is actually an immature 12 year old with impulse issues.

Never a dull moment. Or indeed a shoe shop scoured!