Author Topic: BWW after a decade of living together...  (Read 11643 times)

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thedudeabides

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2013, 09:05:05 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

Aeris

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2013, 09:05:29 PM »
If I were the OP I too, would have a problem with a "shower" after 10 years, 3 kids and a house. 

The purpose of a bridal shower is to help a couple trying to establish a household, not to help upgrade one.  That why many look down on baby showers for a second or third child, the baby stuff has already been set up.

It feels like a gift grab because it is one.

So, showers are inappropriate for anyone who has lived in their own home? After all, they've already "established" their household, and anything new would merely be "upgrading" it.

What about someone who has lived on their own from 18 to 35. They've clearly 'established' their own household - no shower for them when they marry?

What if you've only lived on your own from 22 to 25? Is that enough time to 'establish' a household, such that you are no longer allowed to accept a shower someone else offers to throw you?

If you've lived in your own home for 10 years you really don't need a "shower" for crockpots.  My friends that married in their 40s (none of whom had produced any children) had different sort of parties.  A Christmas themed shower where everyone brought an ornament.  A "stock the bar" party.  the sense of upgrading just wasn't there.

I would have absolutely no interest in attending a bachelorette party for a couple that had cohabited and produced 3 kids either.  In that case I'm sure the bride knew what to expect on her wedding night and had long said goodbye to "singlehood".  I'd happily attend a girls only dinner though.

Just as second babies can politely have a "meet the baby party, but not a shower, a bride that is new to the title but not the functions of a wife can be feted, but it is more tasteful in a different form.

This sounds an awful lot like you're saying that Happy Couples who have slept together are not allowed the same kind of celebration as those who haven't.

Re Bachelorette Parties

A woman that has cohabitated for ten years and produced three children isn't my idea of a "single girl".  I think a bachelorette party for anyone that cohabitated is kinda weird too.  What's the point? 

You cant have it two ways- if cohabitating couples are considered a "social unit" and unmarried couples proclaim that their partnership is just as important as a marriage, whats the big deal about getting married?  Why do they want all they hoopla?

Re: Showers

I think there is a big difference between a couple with 3 kids wanting multiple showers and just about anyone else?  Slept together?  I'm too polite to speculate about that.  Live together?  Don't upgrade, but parties are fine.  Age of bride?  I couldn't care less.

I don't know many people that say that their non-married partnership is 'just as important as a marriage'. I know a few, but most of them are people who are pretty opposed to the government institution of marriage.

I do, however, know a lot of people that are in non-married cohabiting relationships who *will* likely get married - when it's the right time in that particular relationship to take that step and make that commitment. Those people do *not* see themselves as married, or as exactly the same as married, and they *will* be treating getting married as a significant difference in their relationship. Why do those people not deserve 'hoopla' just because there are some non-married people in relationships don't think marriage is a big deal?

You can't stick all non-married, cohabiting relationships in a box and make blanket statements about what all of them think, or feel, or believe about their own relationship or the institution of marriage itself.

The question of who is a 'social unit' is a somewhat different question. Just because Miss Manners agrees that it's proper to invite cohabiting couples as a unit does not mean that cohabiting is precisely the same thing as marriage. As i said above, most cohabiting couples I know personally believe that it is not.

Hmmmmm

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2013, 09:11:36 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

But that feels like they are diminishing the commitment they made to each other while starting a family. Weren't they already committed for life when they had their first child?

bloo

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2013, 09:12:33 PM »
After 10 years together, it's entirely possible that the things they had/acquired at the beginning are getting quite worn out &/or broken and need to be replaced. Like dishes.

DH & I just got married after living together for several years. We registered for new dishes because we need them - the ones we've had from before are getting chipped & broken, and we now have a rather odd mis-matched set of old dishes. Same with the blender and microwave - old ones were dead or dying.

The three showers, OTOH, is rather over the top, especially if the same people are being invited to more than one of them.

I think the idea of a gift should come from those that wish to gift to (general) you. It shouldn't be the thought of the one receiving. That's why I'm not a fan of registries, although I will use them.

Everyone has stuff that needs replacing after awhile. I got a microwave as gift from my parents when I got married. I'm on my third one after 22 years and I've purchased the second as well. I'm not trying to pick on you, jedikaiti, but I guess what I'm thinking is that if I felt the need to get married after many years of living together, I think it would embarrass me to be soliciting any gifts and it wouldn't occur to me to utilize the wedding to replace stuff that's old and worn out. That's my responsibility. I'm not saying that you're getting married to simply do that, of course!

Then again, it would embarrass me to have a registry even if I had the BWW at age 18, when we did get married. That's my personal view.

I'm sorry I said anything.

I'm not sorry you shared your thoughts and experiences for the sake of discussion. I do apologize for upsetting you. That was not my intention.

TootsNYC

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2013, 09:13:46 PM »

If I were the OP I too, would have a problem with a "shower" after 10 years, 3 kids and a house. 

The purpose of a bridal shower is to help a couple trying to establish a household, not to help upgrade one.  That why many look down on baby showers for a second or third child, the baby stuff has already been set up.

It feels like a gift grab because it is one.


I would have absolutely no interest in attending a bachelorette party for a couple that had cohabited and produced 3 kids either.  In that case I'm sure the bride knew what to expect on her wedding night and had long said goodbye to "singlehood".  I'd happily attend a girls only dinner though.

Just as second babies can politely have a "meet the baby party, but not a shower, a bride that is new to the title but not the functions of a wife can be feted, but it is more tasteful in a different form.

This sounds an awful lot like you're saying that Happy Couples who have slept together are not allowed the same kind of celebration as those who haven't.

I think you're deliberately looking for that.

I sure didn't take that away from her comment.

I'm not sure how else to interpret "a bride that is new to the title but not the functions of a wife".

The functions of a wife are not, actually, to have sex. It's all the rest of the day-to-day living, actually, far more than it is the sex. (Miss Manners makes this point as well somewhere).

And when those wifely functions become THAT large--ten years, three children--then it's sort of hard to see her as any sort of newbie.

dirtyweasel

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2013, 09:14:31 PM »
Why do my girlfriend and I want all the hoopla?  Because we believe in the institution of marriage.  Why haven't we gotten married yet?  Because we're not ready to take that final step.  We want to set ourselves up to have the best possible start -- we've gotten over the hump of college, where we weren't even remotely mature enough to make that decision, and we've gotten our careers started, so that we can afford to save up for our wedding.  Because heaven knows that we don't come from families that can afford to pay for it for us.

So, yes, we'll have lived together for an extended period of time before we get married, but we feel we do deserve as much "hoopla" as a couple that got married within some ambiguously shorter period of time without having had the temerity to share the same domicile for any stretch.  Because we're human beings and no less deserving of respect and love than anyone else.

Agreed wholeheartedly.  My husband and I dated for seven years before we got married in order to establish our careers, make sure we could have the wedding that we wanted and make sure that we were making the right decision in getting married.  It would have devastated me to know that some people might have thought that I was gift grabby and an attention seeker just because I wanted to celebrate a momentous change in my life with the people in my life. 

I'm not understanding how people who have been together a long time are less deserving of a marriage celebration compared to people who haven't been together as long?  I mean, how does this rating system of deserving hoopla work?




Aeris

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2013, 09:14:49 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

But that feels like they are diminishing the commitment they made to each other while starting a family. Weren't they already committed for life when they had their first child?

Maybe? Maybe not? I'm not sure how we're supposed to know what kind of commitment they made to one another when they had kids.

thedudeabides

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2013, 09:19:49 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

But that feels like they are diminishing the commitment they made to each other while starting a family. Weren't they already committed for life when they had their first child?

Maybe? Maybe not? I'm not sure how we're supposed to know what kind of commitment they made to one another when they had kids.

Exactly.  When a couple gets married, they state their intentions loud and clear for everyone: We're in this for the long haul, socially, legally, possibly religiously, officially.  They're saying, unambigously, what their intentions are.

JoieGirl7

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2013, 09:24:16 PM »

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

The point is that if you live as man and wife for a decade you already are in the realm of the socially married and in some places quite possibly the realm of he legally married as well.

thedudeabides

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2013, 09:25:10 PM »

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

The point is that if you live as man and wife for a decade you already are in the realm of the socially married and in some places quite possibly the realm of he legally married as well.

How do you define this reference to "live as man and wife"?

Aeris

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2013, 09:29:34 PM »

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

The point is that if you live as man and wife for a decade you already are in the realm of the socially married and in some places quite possibly the realm of he legally married as well.

There is no state in the US that will marry you against your will. You cannot end up accidentally married, even as common law, unless you specifically hold yourselves to be married in public.

Living together does not mean "living as man and wife".

JoieGirl7

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2013, 09:29:42 PM »

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

The point is that if you live as man and wife for a decade you already are in the realm of the socially married and in some places quite possibly the realm of he legally married as well.

How do you define this reference to "live as man and wife"?

A man and a woman living together, making a stable home together, having children together.  In every way, living together the same way a married couple does except for actually being legally married.

Hmmmmm

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2013, 09:31:06 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

But that feels like they are diminishing the commitment they made to each other while starting a family. Weren't they already committed for life when they had their first child?

Maybe? Maybe not? I'm not sure how we're supposed to know what kind of commitment they made to one another when they had kids.

Exactly.  When a couple gets married, they state their intentions loud and clear for everyone: We're in this for the long haul, socially, legally, possibly religiously, officially.  They're saying, unambigously, what their intentions are.

But didnt they say that when they chose to have multiple children together? Maybe that's why I don't get it. If I have a child, especially multiple ones, with someone, I have committed my life to that person. There are children now involved and I'm not still trying out the relationship. To me, having a child with someone is as or more binding than any legal or religous ceremony.  Well, unless I'm doing an anonymous donor and then there no current or future commitment.

dirtyweasel

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2013, 09:35:02 PM »

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

The point is that if you live as man and wife for a decade you already are in the realm of the socially married and in some places quite possibly the realm of he legally married as well.

This is not true for common law marriage.  Not to get into legalities, but you can't just "fall" into common law marriage just by living and cohabiting with someone.



Aeris

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Re: BWW after a decade of living together...
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2013, 09:36:48 PM »
Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

I haven't finished reading all the replies. But a quick comment.

Of the 4 weddings I've attended in the last 4 years, none were for couples who had lived together or had children prior to their marriage. And the youngest of the couples were 27. The 5th wedding I'm attending next month is also with a 30 yr old non-cohabitating couple.

It does feel different. And I feel the same as Toots. If you've already started your life together and started a family, I don't see the need for a BWW.  To me, a wedding is to say, come celebrate as we start our life's together. I don't know what a huge celebration after a couple of maids is supposed to say.

How about that we're joining the realms of the legally and socially married to demonstrate our lifelong commitment to one another, just like every other couple who marries?

But that feels like they are diminishing the commitment they made to each other while starting a family. Weren't they already committed for life when they had their first child?

Maybe? Maybe not? I'm not sure how we're supposed to know what kind of commitment they made to one another when they had kids.

Exactly.  When a couple gets married, they state their intentions loud and clear for everyone: We're in this for the long haul, socially, legally, possibly religiously, officially.  They're saying, unambigously, what their intentions are.

But didnt they say that when they chose to have multiple children together? Maybe that's why I don't get it. If I have a child, especially multiple ones, with someone, I have committed my life to that person. There are children now involved and I'm not still trying out the relationship. To me, having a child with someone is as or more binding than any legal or religous ceremony.  Well, unless I'm doing an anonymous donor and then there no current or future commitment.

But you're just talking about what it means TO YOU to have kids with someone. You have absolutely no way of knowing if that same type of commitment, or intent to commit, is there for someone else with kids.

Maybe the kids were all accidental, and they decided that keeping them was the best option, even though they weren't ready to commit for life, officially. Maybe the kids were intentional, but they still weren't ready to commit for life, officially. Who knows?