BWW after a decade of living together...

[Zizi-K]

Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah for couples who have lived together for a long time, especially if they've produced more than one kid, that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

I'll happily attend showers, etc., for people who are marrying later in life--it's not about age, for me. It's about what messages they've been sending about how important they think the institution of marriage is.
    And the fact that they are now valuing it doesn't wipe out the years of *not* valuing it. Add in a lot of hooplah and a big registry and lots of showers, and the accompany aura gets a greedier tinge, so I resist more.


Feel free to have a different opinion. This is my own.

I guess where my opinion is different is that I don't really 'care' about the institution of marriage in that way (as I imagine you do), so I really wouldn't get offended at someone I perceived "rejecting" or "undervaluing" the institution. (In fact I would never think of it in those terms to begin with.) People have so many reasons for marrying or not marrying, marrying early or marrying late - reasons that are personal, religious, emotional, intellectual - none of which I would expect to be shared with me unless I were very close to the person. We don't know why this couple chose to marry after 10 years. Maybe they did a couples workshop (as I recently did), and felt a genuine reconnection to one another - maybe even a stronger connection than they ever felt - and wanted to celebrate that with a wedding. Who knows? Who cares.

If you (the general 'you', not you TootsNYC) feel like the people are greedy or gift-grabby or whatever, just don't go! Decline all shower invitations and just go to the wedding, giving a modest gift. Just don't be upset when you see all the photos from the showers, all the women having fun together, playing games and bonding, meanwhile you were sitting home being grumpy and resentful!

[Redneck Gravy]

(Mod hat off)

I don't understand the resentment that people have toward couples who register even if they lived together beforehand. The prevailing objection I notice echoes what you object to--that the couple already has an established household, therefore already have what they want/need.

So what if this couple never lived together but both have the usual assortment of towels, sheets, kitchenware, etc. In other words, they have established households only separately. What's the difference?

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 

And yet they have not lived together, have not been previously married and still want the hoopla of a big white wedding event.  It's each situation individually. 

I don't have an issue with the fact that they lived together before marrying...it just feels like they have been together 10 years and suddenly feel like they can replace all their belongings on others' dime.  Or they've decided to get married and had the great idea that if they throw a big event they can collect big...again it's this situation in it's entirety.     

So you're saying the only people entitled to a registry or showers are young couples who don't have the finances to establish a household?
Say what you will about this couples' motives. If you have such little regard for them then don't give them anything, or if you feel you must, a token gift.

Again, I said THIS WEDDING in it's entirety.  And EACH situation is unique.  Quit trying to put words in my mouth with generalizations.

I used the age of 40's in my example; it could be a couple well into their 60's getting married for the first time also.   If they decide to have a BWW I say more joy to them.  If they have three large wedding showers with a long list from registries it's still going to appear gift grabby. 

There's a difference between a twentysomething couple just starting out and a late thirtysomething couple that have been living together over a decade and even a difference between a pair of 60 year olds.  Each wedding is going to have unique circumstances.   It's the presentation and circumstance that make something appear like a gimme grab.   

I asked about this specific circumstance.  Does it seem gimme pig grabby?  Then I get a ton of "other" examples and once again someone is offended and I'm trying to defend my question. 

[Aeris]

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 

After years of happily buying gifts for weddings and babies, I don't deserve all the hoopla just because I'm in my 40's?  I resent that double standard.  I can argue the other way: why can't the young couple save up and establish their household before getting married?  If they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to buy their own toaster.

To me it's not the age of the people.

It's the fact that this particular couple has spent 10 years *rejecting* the institution of marriage and all the traditional excitement for a wedding that our culture has established.

Every day for 10 years, through the births of children even, they have rejected the institution. Now they want it--which is great, I believe in it--but I think they've forfeited the


And registries are only about guests. They are only a way to provide ideas for gift givers. They aren't really a way to ask for stuff. People are not required to use registries to buy gifts; they are free to not give a gift.
   So I actually don't have a problem with registries.

I just have a problem with the extra hooplah this late in the game. And the "lots of showers and a big registry" are really only the tangible part of it.

I find this extremely offensive. Who are you to say that this couple *rejected* the institution of marriage, or 'did not care about marriage', or 'didn't think it was that important'?

They may have very well thought that marriage was quite important, special, etc - just that they weren't ready for it yet. Aren't they allowed to make that call for themselves?

And even if they did 'reject' marriage initially, they've chosen it now - why is that choice less special than someone else's?

If one 'rejects' college at 18, but embraces it at 35, is one not entitled to celebrate their graduation? "No, sorry, no hoopla for you. You only get hoopla if you get here on time!"

[thedudeabides]

Wait, so you're arguing that if a couple lives together or mates, their later wedding is somehow less special?

I'm not really *arguing* that. I don't think that my own *personal* reaction needs to be shared by anyone else.

But yes, it's not as exciting to me. I'm pleased for them, but I'm not going to join in the same giddy foofah that accompanies the marriages of people who are starting *out* married.

You must not get excited about very many weddings these days.

To be honest, I don't get THAT excited about very many other people's weddings anyway--I'm happy for people who get married, but the only wedding I've ever been really excited about were my own and my sister's.

But to be honest, most of the weddings I've been to were for people whose life partnerships were pretty new.
    As I said, I'm not willing to put some "X number of years" criterion on it, but most of the weddings I've been invited to were people who only cohabited for a relatively short period of time and who were pretty much engaged about the time they moved in together.
   I really don't have a lot of relatives or friends who lived together very long or who produced a child before marrying.

I guess I just try not to get that wrapped up in other people's relationships. You're dating? Awesome, let me buy you a beer. You're moving in together? Awesome, let me buy you a beer. You're engaged? Awesome, let me buy you a beer! You're getting married? Awesome, let me buy you a beer!

[thedudeabides]

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 
[/quoteu

After years of happily buying gifts for weddings and babies, I don't deserve all the hoopla just because I'm in my 40's?  I resent that double standard.  I can argue the other way: why can't the young couple save up and establish their household before getting married?  If they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to buy their own toaster.

To me it's not the age of the people.

It's the fact that this particular couple has spent 10 years *rejecting* the institution of marriage and all the traditional excitement for a wedding that our culture has established.

Every day for 10 years, through the births of children even, they have rejected the institution. Now they want it--which is great, I believe in it--but I think they've forfeited the


And registries are only about guests. They are only a way to provide ideas for gift givers. They aren't really a way to ask for stuff. People are not required to use registries to buy gifts; they are free to not give a gift.
   So I actually don't have a problem with registries.

I just have a problem with the extra hooplah this late in the game. And the "lots of showers and a big registry" are really only the tangible part of it.

I find this extremely offensive. Who are you to say that this couple *rejected* the institution of marriage, or 'did not care about marriage', or 'didn't think it was that important'?

They may have very well thought that marriage was quite important, special, etc - just that they weren't ready for it yet. Aren't they allowed to make that call for themselves?

And even if they did 'reject' marriage initially, they've chosen it now - why is that choice less special than someone else's?

If one 'rejects' college at 18, but embraces it at 35, is one not entitled to celebrate their graduation? "No, sorry, no hoopla for you. You only get hoopla if you get here on time!"

Word.

[Aeris]

(Mod hat off)

I don't understand the resentment that people have toward couples who register even if they lived together beforehand. The prevailing objection I notice echoes what you object to--that the couple already has an established household, therefore already have what they want/need.

So what if this couple never lived together but both have the usual assortment of towels, sheets, kitchenware, etc. In other words, they have established households only separately. What's the difference?

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 

And yet they have not lived together, have not been previously married and still want the hoopla of a big white wedding event.  It's each situation individually. 

I don't have an issue with the fact that they lived together before marrying...it just feels like they have been together 10 years and suddenly feel like they can replace all their belongings on others' dime.  Or they've decided to get married and had the great idea that if they throw a big event they can collect big...again it's this situation in it's entirety.     

So you're saying the only people entitled to a registry or showers are young couples who don't have the finances to establish a household?
Say what you will about this couples' motives. If you have such little regard for them then don't give them anything, or if you feel you must, a token gift.

Again, I said THIS WEDDING in it's entirety.  And EACH situation is unique.  Quit trying to put words in my mouth with generalizations.

I used the age of 40's in my example; it could be a couple well into their 60's getting married for the first time also.   If they decide to have a BWW I say more joy to them.  If they have three large wedding showers with a long list from registries it's still going to appear gift grabby. 

There's a difference between a twentysomething couple just starting out and a late thirtysomething couple that have been living together over a decade and even a difference between a pair of 60 year olds.  Each wedding is going to have unique circumstances.   It's the presentation and circumstance that make something appear like a gimme grab.   

I asked about this specific circumstance.  Does it seem gimme pig grabby?  Then I get a ton of "other" examples and once again someone is offended and I'm trying to defend my question.

You are getting other examples because people are attempting to understand the parameters that lead you to the conclusion that this situation is 'gift grabby'. It's not very useful to just say "Yes, I agree" or "No, I don't think it is". It's useful to discuss WHY. And the "why" leads to "well, what about this situation over here, that also falls inside/outside your 'why'/parameters".

Is it the fact that the couple has been living together for 10 years that bothers you?
Is it the fact that they are in their 30s?
Is it the fact that they have children?
Is it the fact that there is a long registry?
Is it the fact that there are three showers?
Is it some particularly combination of something above?

Your original post sounded as though you were annoyed primarily by the fact that they had done things in the 'wrong order', which seems a strange objection. A later post made it sound as though it was primarily their age (not being young, fresh, 20 somethings). And now it sounds a bit like you just have a problem with the fact that they are having a BWW when they've been living together for 10 years.

I'm frankly confused. None of these things seem 'rude' in any way to me, but I can't actually figure out which of them make you feel this is out of line.



(Caveat: inviting people to multiple showers is the one valid thing here that's inappropriate. However, that could easily be the fault of the shower hosts, not the HC, so I'm unwilling to lay that sin on the HC's head without further information.)

[Redneck Gravy]

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 

After years of happily buying gifts for weddings and babies, I don't deserve all the hoopla just because I'm in my 40's?  I resent that double standard.  I can argue the other way: why can't the young couple save up and establish their household before getting married?  If they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to buy their own toaster.

Yes, I don't understand this at all. As someone who is over 40 and very happily just got engaged a week ago, I would be sad to think that my friends whose marriages and weddings I celebrated when we were in our 30s might think that because we are all a bit older now, my (first) wedding is less special and deserves a different level of attention and different etiquette precepts, just because I met my partner later in life than they did. Nothing about that makes sense to me.

What I think -  is that your wedding is still just as special as anyone else's!  I would also expect you to have a more mature approach to showers and wedding gifts.  If you register for new potato peelers and a crockpot, my eyebrows are going to raise.  If you register for china & higher quality linens I see a more sincere approach to your registry.  IMO it just seems less gimme pig than registering for everything you can...do you understand that? 

You are still entitled to be "showered" with gifts as is any newlywed, it's more about the presentation of the showers and the registry.  Does anyone see the difference here?         

[thedudeabides]

Well for example let's say a couple in their 40's are marrying for the first time, both are successful and well established in their fields.  They have a BWW with three wedding showers asking for new dishes, pots & pans, baking sets, linens, small appliances and some furniture. 

I am gonna feel like that is gimme pig grabby. 

After years of happily buying gifts for weddings and babies, I don't deserve all the hoopla just because I'm in my 40's?  I resent that double standard.  I can argue the other way: why can't the young couple save up and establish their household before getting married?  If they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to buy their own toaster.

Yes, I don't understand this at all. As someone who is over 40 and very happily just got engaged a week ago, I would be sad to think that my friends whose marriages and weddings I celebrated when we were in our 30s might think that because we are all a bit older now, my (first) wedding is less special and deserves a different level of attention and different etiquette precepts, just because I met my partner later in life than they did. Nothing about that makes sense to me.

What I think -  is that your wedding is still just as special as anyone else's!  I would also expect you to have a more mature approach to showers and wedding gifts.  If you register for new potato peelers and a crockpot, my eyebrows are going to raise.  If you register for china & higher quality linens I see a more sincere approach to your registry.  IMO it just seems less gimme pig than registering for everything you can...do you understand that? 

You are still entitled to be "showered" with gifts as is any newlywed, it's more about the presentation of the showers and the registry.  Does anyone see the difference here?       

But what if my lifestyle is such that I recognize that I need that crock pot and potato peeler but will likely never use or have any place to store that China? Just because the contents of the registry don't meet your standards doesn't mean it's rude or immature or poorly thought out.

[cass2591]

Again, I said THIS WEDDING in it's entirety.  And EACH situation is unique.  Quit trying to put words in my mouth with generalizations.

I am not putting words in your mouth and I would thank you if you replied to me with a modicum of politeness. Mod hat on and therefore I'm bowing out of this thread.

[Redneck Gravy]

Is it the fact that the couple has been living together for 10 years that bothers you?  No   
Is it the fact that they are in their 30s? No
Is it the fact that they have children? No
Is it the fact that there is a long registry?  Yes, partially
Is it the fact that there are three showers? Yes because that seems over the top
Is it some particularly combination of something above? Yes, there are three showers (I was invited to two, I don't fault the HC but there should have been some cross checking by someone).  The registry list is long and EVERYTHING under the sun is on there! 

Your original post sounded as though you were annoyed primarily by the fact that they had done things in the 'wrong order', which seems a strange objection. A later post made it sound as though it was primarily their age (not being young, fresh, 20 somethings). And now it sounds a bit like you just have a problem with the fact that they are having a BWW when they've been living together for 10 years.

I'm frankly confused. None of these things seem 'rude' in any way to me, but I can't actually figure out which of them make you feel this is out of line.

No one of these things would seem rude or out of line to me either - it's the combination of all of it.  A BWW after living together 10 years doesn't seem all that strange to me - they've waited a long time to have the wedding they want, now they are having it.  It's the whole BWW hoopla, rehearsal dinner, bachelor & bachlorette parties, three wedding showers and a registry list that has everything from dish towels to a new dining room suite on it that seems gimme pig grabby to me.   The fact that they are 35 plus and that they have children is odd but not unheard of...it's the whole thing together.

[thedudeabides]

So, how many showers could this couple have had without seeming over-the-top in your mind?

How long should their registry have been?

What should it have consisted of?

[Erich L-ster]

I would think it a good idea to register for a crock pot and potato peeler as they're generally inexpensive. It would show that you're not expecting people to give you extravagant things.

[Yvaine]

I guess I just try not to get that wrapped up in other people's relationships. You're dating? Awesome, let me buy you a beer. You're moving in together? Awesome, let me buy you a beer. You're engaged? Awesome, let me buy you a beer! You're getting married? Awesome, let me buy you a beer!

I like your philosophy, Dude. 

I would think it a good idea to register for a crock pot and potato peeler as they're generally inexpensive. It would show that you're not expecting people to give you extravagant things.

Yeah, I agree with this. I don't get how fine china is somehow more "sincere" than kitchen gadgets. It's not even computing in my head.

[SlitherHiss]

Another thing to keep in mind is that many stores offer incentives for the HC to purchase things off the registry even after the wedding by giving them additional discounts. I have at least 3 friends (that I know of), who registered for large items simply because they were planning to purchase them at the 20% discount later.

[Aeris]

Is it the fact that the couple has been living together for 10 years that bothers you?  No   
Is it the fact that they are in their 30s? No
Is it the fact that they have children? No
Is it the fact that there is a long registry?  Yes, partially
Is it the fact that there are three showers? Yes because that seems over the top
Is it some particularly combination of something above? Yes, there are three showers (I was invited to two, I don't fault the HC but there should have been some cross checking by someone).  The registry list is long and EVERYTHING under the sun is on there! 

Your original post sounded as though you were annoyed primarily by the fact that they had done things in the 'wrong order', which seems a strange objection. A later post made it sound as though it was primarily their age (not being young, fresh, 20 somethings). And now it sounds a bit like you just have a problem with the fact that they are having a BWW when they've been living together for 10 years.

I'm frankly confused. None of these things seem 'rude' in any way to me, but I can't actually figure out which of them make you feel this is out of line.

No one of these things would seem rude or out of line to me either - it's the combination of all of it.  A BWW after living together 10 years doesn't seem all that strange to me - they've waited a long time to have the wedding they want, now they are having it.  It's the whole BWW hoopla, rehearsal dinner, bachelor & bachlorette parties, three wedding showers and a registry list that has everything from dish towels to a new dining room suite on it that seems gimme pig grabby to me.   The fact that they are 35 plus and that they have children is odd but not unheard of...it's the whole thing together.

I'm still confused.

So, a BWW after 10 years is fine, but a BWW + rehearsal dinner* + bach parties + showers after 10 years is not? Why? Is the line 'you can have a big wedding, but no additional wedding oriented parties'? If so, why?
*(Anyway, isn't the rehearsal dinner a thank you to your wedding party for rehearsing? That's not hoopla, that's a thank you from the HC).

If you had only been invited to one shower, would 3 showers still be bad? If so, why?

What's wrong with a long registry list? That doesn't actually obligate people to buy more than a short registry. It doesn't even request that people buy more than a short registry. It doesn't indicate that the couple wants more gifts than a short registry. The only, literally the only, thing it does is give each gift-buying-guest more options. How is that gift grabby?