Author Topic: "Graduation" Participation  (Read 8098 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kansha

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 322
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2013, 12:45:47 PM »
thankfully, our district makes it very clear that 8th grade promotion is just that: promotion, not 'graduation'.  limos, tuxes/gowns and the like are NOT allowed...the kids don't even do that at HS graduation!

TheaterDiva1

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1470
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2013, 12:46:28 PM »
Catching up and saw the part about having a valedictorian... What happens if Anna's child is chosen for that honor?  Will she make him give it up?

spookycatlady

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 438
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2013, 01:30:42 PM »
IF we had kids, I would swear that Anna was my husband! :)

My husband feels the exact same way as Anna does, but we don't have kids and this isn't going to come up as a decision we will need to make.

He didn't get to attend his own graduation ceremony from high school, due to an ill-advised and ill-timed disagreement with the principal.  The thought that treating smaller milestones as as important as high school or university graduation when they haven't finished their formal education is what sticks in his craw.  Everyone gets to graduate *something* at some point is where the idea that this is akin to 'everyone gets a medal.'  He suffered the consequences of his actions, but now no one else has to.  At least I think that's why it bugs him so much.

My own high school didn't call graduation *graduation*-- it was callled the school leaving ceremony, or commencement.  We couldn't call it graduation because our final marks weren't released by the provincial government until August and school ended in June.  We had caps and gowns and a presentation of little rolled up pieces of paper that said we finished the school year.  Not completed successfully-- simply managed to make to June without quitting or getting kicked out.  I was valedictorian and my speech was all about how significant that night was as a rite of passage.  Still... a small part of me thought it was a farce because everyone got to attend, regardless of whether they passed their classes or not.  And regardless of whether they were actually leaving the school or not.  A number of my classmates had to go back in September to complete their course work to actually get a diploma, so at my school, everyone indeed got a medal.  That being said, if my parents weren't going to let me attend because that ceremony didn't actually result in my being handed a diploma, well there would have been a hissy fit that only an 18 year old girl could throw.  And I would have attended anyway, because well... I was 18.

My university graduation ceremony-- that I took seriously.  That was a Big Deal.  And I was strictly top-of-the-bell-curve average kind of student.  Attending a farcical aquatic ceremony four years previous didn't make me any less of a hard working, goal oriented student.

I see where Anna (and my husband) are coming from and I like her strategy of misdirection with her kid, but I don't actually see soul-crushing harm from participating (or even not participating) at that age level.

No etiquette violation for taking a moral stand on something, just so long as her morality doesn't harm or injure anyone else.  This choice reminds me of the kids who didn't get to participate in the Christmas pageant, or got the day off of school to avoid Halloween parties because of the parents' belief systems.

Library Dragon

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2013, 02:49:08 PM »
I'm not against transitional celebrations.  There was no ceremony of any type for DS1 so we hosted a sleep over party for 6 of his friends.  I cooked a huge brisket, baked potatoes, and lots of other "manly" food.  They swam and then camped out in the back yard.  With only one high school in the city they were going to be seeing each other during the summer and very soon at school.  It was an appropriate celebration for them.

DS2 attended a K-8 Catholic school.  There was an honors program for awards for 2nd-5th and 6th-8th grades on one day, but different award ceremonies.  For the ending year ceremony there was a Mass of celebration and a cake and punch party afterwards.  The kids simply wore "nice clothes."  (I cannot say church clothes as most of our youth wear jeans and tshrits at church.) 

No diplomas, no tuxes, no caps and gowns, no speechifying a valedictorian.  Not having a full blown out graduation ceremony doesn't mean there there can be no transitional celebration.  IMO instead of focusing on MY dress or MY limo it's a rite of passage for the grade to celebrate together. 

            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 31765
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2013, 03:05:20 PM »
IF we had kids, I would swear that Anna was my husband! :)

My husband feels the exact same way as Anna does, but we don't have kids and this isn't going to come up as a decision we will need to make.

He didn't get to attend his own graduation ceremony from high school, due to an ill-advised and ill-timed disagreement with the principal. The thought that treating smaller milestones as as important as high school or university graduation when they haven't finished their formal education is what sticks in his craw.  Everyone gets to graduate *something* at some point is where the idea that this is akin to 'everyone gets a medal.' He suffered the consequences of his actions, but now no one else has to.  At least I think that's why it bugs him so much.


BUT... *I* [hypothetical "I"] didn't have an ill-advised and ill-timed disagreement with the principal. I committed no actions that deserve the consequence of being shut out of a community celebration.

That sort of "dog in the manger" or sour grapes to me!

And it doesn't have any connection to the "you're not really done with your education yet, so let's not pretend it's as important as other, later events."

So there's no logic to combining the two points of view.

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28769
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2013, 03:10:54 PM »
I just had the "privilege" (quotes intentional) of attending my son's "graduation" from eighth grade a month ago.  I was appalled at the spectacle.  Long gowns on the girls, tuxedos on many of the boys, limousines sweeping up to the door--I couldn't believe my eyes.  What are we going to give these kids for graduating from high school or university to top this?  (Let's not even think about future wedding expectations!) It was insane, particularly in view of the fact that in my province it is impossible for a child not to "graduate" from grade eight--all he/she needs is a pulse; no other achievements are necessary. 

That being said, it wasn't up to me to tell my son that he wasn't allowed to go.  His views on dressing up match his father's (who will basically only wear a suit at gunpoint!) so I didn't have to worry about him begging me to rent him a tux, but I figured it was his decision to attend or not.  For the record, he changed his mind several times in the weeks before because he didn't want to be the only boy there without a "date", but on the actual day he said he would go.   I drove him there, stood by the back door for the ceremony (crowd anxiety issues) and went home, sending his father to pick him up from the dance later.

The whole overblown thing left a bad taste in my mouth, and if this is becoming typical, I believe that it needs to be addressed.  Forcing one's child to boycott the ceremony, however, is not the answer and it punishes the child.  I wish that there was an easy answer.  I'm just glad that I'm done with it.

?I didn't graduate university in a long gown, and absolutely no one showed up in a limo.

Graduations should involve sitting around in funny robes, while listening to people make too many speeches, for too long, before you get your tiny moment in the sun. (We did have a few guys wear shorts under their robes, much more sensible than tuxes!)
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

esposita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • If you have the power to make someone happy, do it
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2013, 04:02:03 PM »
We are not raising our younglings with an "everyone wins" mentality. But we are raising them with the understanding that some people in charge like to make everyone believe that everyone is winning.

So our course of action, if we were ever in this situation, would be to say "Dude, that's pretty dumb. But here's some nice khaki's and a tie (or a pretty dress) go have fun and don't rain on anyone's parade. We'll all enjoy some pizza afterwards."

MrTango

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2469
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2013, 04:03:39 PM »
Limos and tuxes? Wow!

Wow.  There weren't any limos or tuxes at my high school graduation, and I attended a ritzy, snobbish, suburban high school...

MrsJWine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8846
  • I have an excessive fondness for parentheses.
    • Wallydraigle
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2013, 04:35:10 PM »
There have been 8th grade graduations and kindergarten graduations for as long as I can remember (I'm 30). It's not exactly a new thing. I think it's a little bit silly, but then again, I would have skipped my high school graduation if I could have gotten away with it. I dislike graduations, period. But 8th grade graduation isn't really evidence of a new "everybody wins!" trend. It's something that's been pretty normal for a long time. Not to mention that it *is* something that's been earned, even if it seems like no big deal to adults.

If her son wants to go, and he's looking forward to it as something to share with his friends, I think it's a bit mean-spirited to keep him from it. On principle, I often object to a lot of silly things my kids look forward to, but they're kids. What are they going to remember more, my Important Stand, or the fact that I didn't want them to do something harmless for reasons they couldn't understand?


I have a blog.  I hate that word.


Utah

AngelicGamer

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4166
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2013, 04:55:14 PM »
<snip>

If her son wants to go, and he's looking forward to it as something to share with his friends, I think it's a bit mean-spirited to keep him from it. On principle, I often object to a lot of silly things my kids look forward to, but they're kids. What are they going to remember more, my Important Stand, or the fact that I didn't want them to do something harmless for reasons they couldn't understand?

From my experience, it will be the second one.  As a kid, I would have probably also hold onto that talk for a very long time to come.  For example, I still remember the "talk" my mom and I had when I was in the fifth grade and the importance of practicing the so I wouldn't embarrass her again with only being able to play one song with the rest of the string orchestra.  Talk is in quotes because it was mostly her yelling at me and me being all wide eyed and scared straight into practicing the heck out of that violin. 

Yes, kids will hold onto the stupidest things and my mom doesn't even remember that talk when I brought it up a while ago.  Since she doesn't remember and hugely apologized for it (even wondered why the heck I stayed with playing the violin), I've forgiven her.  I've let go of most of the memory - can't recite word for word what she said anymore - but it comes back up every now and then.

While this isn't as severe, it can blow up in the friend's face and her kid might remember it for years to come.  I'd tread carefully and probably tell her to make triple sure that her kid doesn't want to go at all.




"Life's tough, huh?  And then you die." ~ Buck, the Magnificent Seven.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 31765
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2013, 05:01:22 PM »
I think kids will hold onto the things that their parents tell them, even if it seems like it's only a brief exchange.

I wasn't allowed to go trick-or-treating as a kid. I remember my mother's reasoning, and it really did influence how I view it.

But I personally would want to teach my kid how to hold to his values in the surrounding hooplah, and how to be part of something (like graduation) without being sucked in to all the excesses.

snowdragon

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2200
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2013, 05:16:47 PM »
My mother graduated from 8th grade in 1947. She had one. Actually 8th grade graduations are not all that new, and come from a time when many kids did not go past reading, writing and ciphering. If they made it through 8th grade it was a big, fat hairy deal to be celebrated. When education through high school became more common many kids went to the same schools from first to eighth grades - all of them in the same classrooms for all that time. High School had a different format, and the change and loss of community was celebrated ( and there were some tears, too).
  My point being this is not new for eight grade.  Kindergarten, Pre-K grads I'll agree with, but 8th grade has some history behind it.

JoyinVirginia

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6108
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2013, 05:19:18 PM »
From the OP, the child hasn't even started eighth grade yet, correct? I think OP friend should defer worrying about this until next January at least. out seems like it is so far ahead, why worry about out now? And see what the eight grader wants to do when the time comes. I think the child who is becoming a teen soon should have the majority of the input on the decision.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 31765
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2013, 05:24:49 PM »
From the OP, the child hasn't even started eighth grade yet, correct? I think OP friend should defer worrying about this until next January at least. out seems like it is so far ahead, why worry about out now? And see what the eight grader wants to do when the time comes. I think the child who is becoming a teen soon should have the majority of the input on the decision.

And, the mom will get to decide how much hooplah and excitement she personally wants to invest in this. With, hopefully, some level of insight into what might please her child, or make her child feel valued, respected, etc.

one thing I'd personally worry about is this: By boycotting this ceremony, will I send my kid the message that all that work he did to get through school is not important? That there isn't any external way to celebrate his academic achievement?

School is not fun. And to then remove all external rewards like this makes it pretty dingdangity grim, in my mind.

lady_disdain

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5948
    • Contemporary Jewelry
Re: "Graduation" Participation
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2013, 05:52:49 PM »
If the money is part of the objection, could the child earn some of the money himself? If he were a little older, matching funds would be a good idea but I wonder if that would be too hard for a younger teen with fewer employment opportunities. At the very least, she could turn it into a financial planning opportunity: have him make a budget (gown and cap as well the other extras), discuss how many hours of work it would take to earn it, help him decide what is important and what isn't, etc.

This would help him make better choices (are you sure you need the limo, kid?), turn the event into an important lesson and give him plenty of opportunities to practice the hard work and goal setting the mother values.