Author Topic: Sharing pics of customers' messy table  (Read 8225 times)

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dawbs

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2013, 04:34:52 PM »
I think the restaurant owner was wrong posting a picture.  People come, they eat, messes are made.  At home, I have easy access to a broom and/or vaccum, but not at a restaurant, which means the staff must clean up my mess.  I can do my best to not make a big mess; but crumbs happen.   And I would never eat in this restaurant because even the neatest of people can still drop a crumb or two on the floor and I'd be nervous about being yelled at because they'd just cleaned their carpets.

I'm not saying the mom was in the right - her kid was yelling; and outing herself to humiliate the restaurant owner is worse than the restaurant owner posting the pic because the restaurant owner kept it anonymous, the mom didn't.   

No one is right here, but the restaurant owner made a very poor business choice, and that could have longer ramifications than having a customer leave a mess that has to be cleaned up.

Agreed. And scones are really hard to eat without creating crumbs!
 
The mess in that photo did not seem over the top to me.
This.
I'll make every effort to clean up after myself/my child/my group/whatever...but it's nto like I carry around a hand-bissel-crumb-sweeper now that I'm not bussing tables for a living--I'm not seeing how a well intentioned patron could clean that up from that carpet.

And while I an appreciate "why would you buy your kid an item you know is messy", the corollary to that, of "why would you serve scones in a room where scones will be impossible to clean up" is just as valid.

I'm not seeing that anyone handled this spectacularly well, but, from what I"m seeing, the owner escalated this one from the 'I'm annoyed by the public (those who I work with/provide service for/etc)' that everyone who deals w/ 'the public' deals with to "I'm publicly calling out my patrons-(-albeit not by name)"

zyrs

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2013, 04:45:42 PM »
I honestly expected a larger mess - but at the same time I would have been punished severely when I was a child for making even the mess shown.

But, if mom hadn't outed herself, no one would have ever known.

4children

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2013, 04:56:19 PM »
Clip from a radio show interviewing the cafe owner.

http://kiroradio.com/listen/9959851
All original reports, from both parties, mention nothing at all about one of the children throwing a tantrum. Just the owner taking exception to the mess and throwing the customers out.

It appears that the 'tantrum' has been thrown in later to muddy the waters, which puts a different slant on the entire situation.


I listened to the radio clip. The store owner says she did say what the mother reported. If the owner had a problem with the noise, why didn't she address that at the time or on her Facebook?  I think that mess is small conpared to others I have seen. Seems rude to me to post it and change the story to the public after it blew up.

That amount of mess from small children eating scones is not excessive and if the owner thinks it is, she is in the wrong trade. Especially when, picture and ensuing furore aside, she speaks to people in the manner she has admitted to.

JoieGirl7

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2013, 04:57:02 PM »
I listened to the radio interview and she sounds like she would make a good ehellion!

She was saying that with the incident that happened it wasn't just the mess, it really was the noise.  It's a very small place and people come into conduct business and she was in the midst of having a meeting with someone herself and they had to cut it short because of the child's tantrum.

In the course of the child's tantrum, the crumbs were being ground into the carpet.  So, it wasn't just a case of some crumbs falling on the floor and we'll get that up.  Apparently, she was trying to keep it from becoming a much worse mess.

She also said that they have customers with children in a lot and they don't behave that way making lots of noise and mess.

4children

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2013, 04:58:25 PM »
Sorry. I can't seem to learn how to use quotes. Hope you all can understand...

TootsNYC

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2013, 05:03:14 PM »
All original reports, from both parties, mention nothing at all about one of the children throwing a tantrum. Just the owner taking exception to the mess and throwing the customers out.

It appears that the 'tantrum' has been thrown in later to muddy the waters, which puts a different slant on the entire situation.

That amount of mess from small children eating scones is not excessive and if the owner thinks it is, she is in the wrong trade. Especially when, picture and ensuing furore aside, she speaks to people in the manner she has admitted to.

Maybe in her own personal experience at the shop she owns. very few children make this sort of mess.

Her actual post is not that rude, actually.

I don't think she expected the parents to clean up the mess. I think she expected the two moms to pay enough attention to their children that they could steer them to lean over the table while the crumbs fell. Or break their scone into pieces on the plate, so that there weren't as many crumbs.

And given the updates, it sounds like the biggest part of the problem is that the mess was gratuitous. If the kid was having a tantrum and knocking his food around, the mother should have taken the food away from him.


JoieGirl7

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2013, 05:24:59 PM »
All original reports, from both parties, mention nothing at all about one of the children throwing a tantrum. Just the owner taking exception to the mess and throwing the customers out.

It appears that the 'tantrum' has been thrown in later to muddy the waters, which puts a different slant on the entire situation.

That amount of mess from small children eating scones is not excessive and if the owner thinks it is, she is in the wrong trade. Especially when, picture and ensuing furore aside, she speaks to people in the manner she has admitted to.

Maybe in her own personal experience at the shop she owns. very few children make this sort of mess.

Her actual post is not that rude, actually.

I don't think she expected the parents to clean up the mess. I think she expected the two moms to pay enough attention to their children that they could steer them to lean over the table while the crumbs fell. Or break their scone into pieces on the plate, so that there weren't as many crumbs.

And given the updates, it sounds like the biggest part of the problem is that the mess was gratuitous. If the kid was having a tantrum and knocking his food around, the mother should have taken the food away from him.

I think that's the thing here.  We have gotten to the point where we consider it a foregone conclusion that children are going to make a mess.  in many places, this is not a big deal like a fast food restaurant or Chuck E Cheese.  But, this coffee shop wasn't like that.  It has an atmosphere where if a child cannot behave well, then they shouldn't be there.

Frankly, I appreciated places that discouraged people with badly behaved children because it gave me someplace to go when I wanted to get away from my own!

There were times when DH and I would go out for a nice dinner at a nice place only to have to suffer someone else's children who were trying to interact with us over the booth divider, or running around the restaurant from table to table while their parents just let it happen.  We would leave when that would happen.

Do I expect that children should be crumb free?  No, I don't.  But, if I know my kids are going to make a mess, maybe I will take them outside to sit and eat there where the mess is not such a big deal.  And if they are carrying on making noise, definitely, I would take them out.

I don't think there is anything wrong with establishing certain behavioral standards for children in certain public places.

mich3554

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2013, 05:28:52 PM »
From the radio clip, it sounded like the child was out of control and the parent was ignoring the noise.  If you are not used to a child's screams, hearing one do so can be like an ice pick through the skull.  I know I have winced more thn once when it happens, but for the most part the child is quickly quieted down or removed.  It did not sound like either of these occurred, but the screams were ignored.

Rohanna

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2013, 05:43:43 PM »
Okay but you can only have one of two things: either they take the kid out immediately, or they finish and clean up. You can't (apparently) ask them to leave before they are done, but then post a picture of "mess" they left....how can you expect them to clean while simultaniously being kicked out for a noisy child. If the problem was the noise, why post only about the mess?

The original comments were only about the mess, so I really really am suspicious that she's adding to her story to look for more sympathy and push a few buttons (everyone hates tantruming screaming kids- not everyone cares about crumbs). Don't we see this all the time even on this board- an OP isn't getting the response they want so they keep adding more and more "detail" to a story until it barely resembles the original question/complaint?

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JoieGirl7

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2013, 05:51:04 PM »
Okay but you can only have one of two things: either they take the kid out immediately, or they finish and clean up. You can't (apparently) ask them to leave before they are done, but then post a picture of "mess" they left....how can you expect them to clean while simultaniously being kicked out for a noisy child. If the problem was the noise, why post only about the mess?

The original comments were only about the mess, so I really really am suspicious that she's adding to her story to look for more sympathy and push a few buttons (everyone hates tantruming screaming kids- not everyone cares about crumbs). Don't we see this all the time even on this board- an OP isn't getting the response they want so they keep adding more and more "detail" to a story until it barely resembles the original question/complaint?

That's not what happened.  It was the child's behavior coupled with the mess that was the problem.  She said that she had to cut short a meeting she was having with someone because the child was that disruptive in the small space.

And she never asked them to clean up the mess.   The mother never said that she was told to clean up the mess.

The fact that she posted only about the mess on FB in the first place doesn't mean anything because she wasn't outing them--she wasn't being specific.  Now, that its blown up and she has gotten more specific you get more details.

mich3554

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2013, 06:00:51 PM »
Okay but you can only have one of two things: either they take the kid out immediately, or they finish and clean up. You can't (apparently) ask them to leave before they are done, but then post a picture of "mess" they left....how can you expect them to clean while simultaniously being kicked out for a noisy child. If the problem was the noise, why post only about the mess?

The original comments were only about the mess, so I really really am suspicious that she's adding to her story to look for more sympathy and push a few buttons (everyone hates tantruming screaming kids- not everyone cares about crumbs). Don't we see this all the time even on this board- an OP isn't getting the response they want so they keep adding more and more "detail" to a story until it barely resembles the original question/complaint?

If you listen to the clip, the cafe owner probably wouldn't have said anything if it was only about the mess.

It is a small facility which is used predominantly by business people, doing business.  She even recommended another coffee shop around the corner, owned by a teacher, which is more child friendly.

shhh its me

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2013, 06:04:51 PM »
All original reports, from both parties, mention nothing at all about one of the children throwing a tantrum. Just the owner taking exception to the mess and throwing the customers out.

It appears that the 'tantrum' has been thrown in later to muddy the waters, which puts a different slant on the entire situation.

That amount of mess from small children eating scones is not excessive and if the owner thinks it is, she is in the wrong trade. Especially when, picture and ensuing furore aside, she speaks to people in the manner she has admitted to.

Maybe in her own personal experience at the shop she owns. very few children make this sort of mess.

Her actual post is not that rude, actually.

I don't think she expected the parents to clean up the mess. I think she expected the two moms to pay enough attention to their children that they could steer them to lean over the table while the crumbs fell. Or break their scone into pieces on the plate, so that there weren't as many crumbs.

And given the updates, it sounds like the biggest part of the problem is that the mess was gratuitous. If the kid was having a tantrum and knocking his food around, the mother should have taken the food away from him.

I think that's the thing here.  We have gotten to the point where we consider it a foregone conclusion that children are going to make a mess.  in many places, this is not a big deal like a fast food restaurant or Chuck E Cheese.  But, this coffee shop wasn't like that.  It has an atmosphere where if a child cannot behave well, then they shouldn't be there.

Frankly, I appreciated places that discouraged people with badly behaved children because it gave me someplace to go when I wanted to get away from my own!

There were times when DH and I would go out for a nice dinner at a nice place only to have to suffer someone else's children who were trying to interact with us over the booth divider, or running around the restaurant from table to table while their parents just let it happen.  We would leave when that would happen.

Do I expect that children should be crumb free?  No, I don't.  But, if I know my kids are going to make a mess, maybe I will take them outside to sit and eat there where the mess is not such a big deal.  And if they are carrying on making noise, definitely, I would take them out.

I don't think there is anything wrong with establishing certain behavioral standards for children in certain public places.

I don't think anyone is saying "kids will be kids , that comes with tantrums"  IF your kid starts screaming you need to leave , either for a few minutes till they calm down or call and end to the outing.  Asking/telling them to leave perfectly appropriate being in the owners word "snarky" on FB towards a customers is rude.  The mess was more then a few crumbs , you can see they were ground in  so I would say it was excessive but it wasn't "CRUD MONKEYS! what is wrong with you" epic level mess.

As a side point the owner started it by posting a picture of the mess no mention of how the kids were behaving , that's whats going to stick in people minds.   Even when its true if you add after being confronted your real more serious issue it damages your credibility.  IF she thought that was a epic level mess that must be posted on FB is it possible she thinks slightly more then moderate noise is a screaming tantrum.  I personally think the owner had a really bad day , the kids yelling messed up her meeting and they made a mess and she had just had it and lashed out on FB.   I like restaurants who remove badly behaved children but if all I saw was the picture of the mess I'd think the owner was wound too tight and not want to patronize the business(and I don't mean as a family I mean as an adult on my own)

Shoo

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2013, 06:06:45 PM »
It's pretty hard to post an audio of a kid throwing a tantrum on FB.  So the owner did the only thing she could, which was post a picture of the mess they left behind.  Just because that's what she chose to post on FB doesn't mean the child wasn't being disruptive (and this info added later to garner sympathy).  It just means that's all she chose to put on FB.  She's not the one who identified the woman.  It was the woman herself who did that.

I think I support the business owner in this one.  Lake Stevens is a small town, and businesses do need to be mindful of how they come across.  But in this case, I think the owner's stance is actually going to help her business.  I would have never considered going across the lake to visit this cafe before, but I think I might now!

Twik

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2013, 06:12:30 PM »
It doesn't look like that big of a mess, to my eyes.

And now she's established herself as judgemental of her patrons, she may find that she will have fewer of them to deal with.

Unless they do something criminal, you don't publicly shame your guests.
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Peregrine

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Re: Sharing pics of customers' messy table
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2013, 06:36:21 PM »
I've seen (well behaved) adults accidentally make worse messes than this in restaurants.  All it takes is someone accidentally knocking a plate or hitting a glass with an elbow or an uneven table being jostled.  I'm with the people that feel like the owner of the place was having a bad day.

If you reserve the right to tell someone to get out immediately, you have no right to complain if they leave a minor mess behind.

I do my best as a parent to be mindful of the noise and messes that my toddler may be making.  I do my best to make sure that we are not being disruptive to others......but there has been the rare occasion when I'm trying to collect him, his stuff, my stuff, pay for dinner, and get out the door with a melting child and the restaurant staff themselves were dragging their feet getting us our check so we could get out (trying to offer me dessert and coffee while I'm trying to get my kiddo out the door before a tantrum commences is not helpful!) 

I will say that the best trick for dining out with an energetic toddler is to always request and pay your check as soon as your food comes.  It gives a lot more flexibility when dealing with a kiddo who doesn't always have a reliable attention span for dining out.  Wait staff seems to always be willing to add on if good behavior allows a dessert or a little lingering conversation.  We travel a lot for work as a family, and end up eating out a lot, not always in ideal circumstances.