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  • December 07, 2016, 09:10:21 PM

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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 2845541 times)

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flyersandunicorns

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10710 on: December 02, 2016, 03:37:00 PM »
It's state by state, but here in Alabama if you're a full-time employees your company is required to give you time off and pay your regular wages for the time you serve as a juror. This is just as well, because the state pays you $10/day and reimburses you for your mileage in getting to the courthouse - at a nickel a mile  :-\ Your company can require you to give them that $10/day, though. Most don't bother.

I wasn't expecting Alabama to have a law that requires the employer to pay you for your time on jury duty, that's an awesome surprise. Up here where we have mandated paid sick leave now, we don't even have mandated pay for jury duty.

It's always a nightmare when I've had jury duty getting the time off without hassle.

No snark intended, but why does it surprise you that Alabama has this law?

I'm so used to being taught up here that the southern states are "horrible to work in" and don't expect many employee favorable laws there. This is strictly my own ignorance showing after being born and raised in the land of labor unions and the push for nearly $15 an hour minimum wage that's coming about over the next 7 years or so.

Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10711 on: December 02, 2016, 04:11:46 PM »
Quote from: Browyn

i have gotten called for jury duty a few times over the years but never selected.  I have an MBA (so lawyers suing corporations don't want me) and I have family who are police officers (so the criminal defense attorney's don't want me).   I bring a book and read until they send us home.
I was on Federal jury duty last year and they accepted a practicing lawyer- a defense attorney if I remember correctly, so having cops as relatives isn't as safe a "not going to get chosen" as you might think.

One of the cases I served on, another juror was an attorney. Not just any attorney, but someone who defends the police department against misconduct cases. The same police department that did the arrest in the case! He was seething at the poor procedures the police used.

This is truly PD at its finest... :o

Ah, but which PD? LAPD, NYPD, SFPD?  ;D
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Browyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10712 on: December 02, 2016, 07:57:15 PM »
Quote from: Browyn

i have gotten called for jury duty a few times over the years but never selected.  I have an MBA (so lawyers suing corporations don't want me) and I have family who are police officers (so the criminal defense attorney's don't want me).   I bring a book and read until they send us home.
I was on Federal jury duty last year and they accepted a practicing lawyer- a defense attorney if I remember correctly, so having cops as relatives isn't as safe a "not going to get chosen" as you might think.

Oh I know, law of averages and all, but so far I have never been choosen.

Giraffe, Esq

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10713 on: December 03, 2016, 11:53:16 AM »
Quote from: Browyn

i have gotten called for jury duty a few times over the years but never selected.  I have an MBA (so lawyers suing corporations don't want me) and I have family who are police officers (so the criminal defense attorney's don't want me).   I bring a book and read until they send us home.
I was on Federal jury duty last year and they accepted a practicing lawyer- a defense attorney if I remember correctly, so having cops as relatives isn't as safe a "not going to get chosen" as you might think.

Oh I know, law of averages and all, but so far I have never been choosen.

I've never even been called for jury duty.  And no, I did not just jinx myself by saying that -- I say it all the time and I still don't get that paper in the mail.  Add the fact that right now I'm technically unemployed (semi-employed through contract work, exploring other options, yadda yadda) and have time to do it?  Yeah, not getting called.   >:D

Plus, while they sometimes do let lawyers on the jury, odds are still against me being picked.

And I really do want to do it, too.   >:(

artk2002

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10714 on: December 03, 2016, 01:11:35 PM »
Quote from: Browyn

i have gotten called for jury duty a few times over the years but never selected.  I have an MBA (so lawyers suing corporations don't want me) and I have family who are police officers (so the criminal defense attorney's don't want me).   I bring a book and read until they send us home.
I was on Federal jury duty last year and they accepted a practicing lawyer- a defense attorney if I remember correctly, so having cops as relatives isn't as safe a "not going to get chosen" as you might think.

One of the cases I served on, another juror was an attorney. Not just any attorney, but someone who defends the police department against misconduct cases. The same police department that did the arrest in the case! He was seething at the poor procedures the police used.

This is truly PD at its finest... :o

Ah, but which PD? LAPD, NYPD, SFPD?  ;D

LAPD. That particular case haunts me to this day. We convicted but there's always been a nagging doubt that it was a police frame-up -- the accused was a community activist who had been a thorn in the PD's side for some time. There wasn't enough to go to reasonable doubt, but doubt there is. Defense could have done a better job on that point, but failed to do so.

Jury duty for me has been very interesting overall, but sometimes very hard. I've often found myself thinking "I know what they're trying to show, and they probably have enough evidence to show it, but I can't vote on speculation." Blatant attempts to fool the jury make me angry -- one personal injury case, the plaintiff tried to associate the accident location with one nearby, because the nearby one had a very high accident rate (the state was a defendant.) Or the ones who present a timeline but present it as B A C F D E rather than A B C D E F.

Recently, I heard a well-known doctor testify that some spinal damage was due to an accident, but didn't show anything like an MRI from before (the plaintiff had other, long-standing issues); it was just a bald assertion that we were supposed to take at face value. It could just as well have been due to the natural deterioration of the spine. I pointed out that flaw to both attorneys after the trial. I was very glad that we didn't end up discussing the medical evidence in the jury room (the rest of the scenario was implausible) because it turned out that I knew that doctor by reputation. They had mentioned the doctor but not the clinic during the "do you know" questions. My wife (an ex circulating nurse at a hospital where he had privileges) had mentioned him in the past but I hadn't made the connection until much later. That would have made deliberation very tough, trying to keep my personal (negative) opinions out of it.

I wish more attorneys would make themselves available after the trial to talk to jurors. I think that would get them a better understanding of what they should be doing. I'm happy to talk to anyone, no matter what side and what the outcome is. I just want to make the system work well.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Writer of Wrongs

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10715 on: December 05, 2016, 11:42:45 AM »
Quote
But did he book a day's ordinary leave, or was it a day specifically designated as time off to perform a vivid duty?

(Aside:  I'm assuming you meant "civic" duty.)

He'd taken the day off specifically for jury duty.    What he should have done was call his boss, say "They won't need me today, but maybe tomorrow", and let his boss decide whether or not he should come back to the office.

I was called for jury duty once*, and as it turned out, they didn't need me.  It took most of the day to get to that point, but once I knew for sure that I was off the hook, I headed back to the office for a couple of hours of work.

*I was slightly disappointed that I didn't get that one - it was a really gruesome murder trial!

Completely OT, but Shalamar, I love you for that last sentence. Add me to the list of those who have never been even called for jury duty, but who would love to do it. (My former career as a reporter would've had me dismissed in a heartbeat back then. Now, I might actually stand a chance.)

Back to PD - someone I know was recently fired from his high-level job. It's being kept very quiet, but scuttlebutt indicates that it involves vendors hiring, ah, ladies to, ahem, influence his decision on a contract.

RainyDays

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10716 on: December 05, 2016, 04:00:38 PM »
We have some PD happening here. I teach high school. When you start teaching in most places in the US, they consider you a new teacher for at least the first 3, if not 5, years. This is because a large percentage of teachers who leave the profession do so during that time period. In my district, teachers who are within their first 3 years have extra assistance available to them.

As additional background, this is my 3rd year teaching, so I am still new. Better than I was!! But still new. I have been at the same school from the start.


A new-to-our-school teacher began this year. We'll call him Tom. This is also his third year teaching. He has shunned all help available to him because "he knows what he's doing." Except he doesn't. His content is solid, but his classroom management is atrocious. I know because three (3!) different people have talked to me about it, wondering if there is any way I can work it into a conversation with him because no one else seems to be able to get through. (Tom and I hit it off at the start of the year, but our conversations have fizzled; these people thought we were still close enough that I could do this.)

Issues include: Students constantly on their cell phones. Students walking around the classroom, "hanging out" when they are supposed to be seated doing work. Students freely using profanities. Students generally talking the entire period, even when Tom is teaching, so that work just doesn't get done by anyone. None of these offenses are met with consequences, so of course, they keep happening.

Tom is so focused on having the students "work together" (an admirable goal!) that he has neglected to enforce basic classroom rules so that students respect him and each other. One of his supervisors suggested that he seat the students in traditional rows, instead of groups, because that can substantially help teachers who are struggling with classroom management. Students can't work together, but they also can't get distracted by each other and it's easier to keep everyone on task. He was horrified. They have to be in groups!

My first year, I desperately wanted my students to be in groups. But I quickly learned that I didn't have the classroom management skills to handle it. This year, all but one of my classes are in groups. That one? The kids are rowdy, and I don't have the classroom management skills yet to handle it. Because I'M STILL NEW. Just like Tom.

The principal is the one who gets the final say if someone is hired back. The 3 people (aside from myself) who know how bad it is are the support system. However, they all report to the principal, and word will get back to her eventually. There are already rumors that Tom's contract won't be renewed. But he still maintains his indifferent/know-it-all attitude whenever someone tries to help.

PastryGoddess

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10717 on: December 05, 2016, 05:56:00 PM »
We have some PD happening here. I teach high school. When you start teaching in most places in the US, they consider you a new teacher for at least the first 3, if not 5, years. This is because a large percentage of teachers who leave the profession do so during that time period. In my district, teachers who are within their first 3 years have extra assistance available to them.

As additional background, this is my 3rd year teaching, so I am still new. Better than I was!! But still new. I have been at the same school from the start.


A new-to-our-school teacher began this year. We'll call him Tom. This is also his third year teaching. He has shunned all help available to him because "he knows what he's doing." Except he doesn't. His content is solid, but his classroom management is atrocious. I know because three (3!) different people have talked to me about it, wondering if there is any way I can work it into a conversation with him because no one else seems to be able to get through. (Tom and I hit it off at the start of the year, but our conversations have fizzled; these people thought we were still close enough that I could do this.)

Issues include: Students constantly on their cell phones. Students walking around the classroom, "hanging out" when they are supposed to be seated doing work. Students freely using profanities. Students generally talking the entire period, even when Tom is teaching, so that work just doesn't get done by anyone. None of these offenses are met with consequences, so of course, they keep happening.

Tom is so focused on having the students "work together" (an admirable goal!) that he has neglected to enforce basic classroom rules so that students respect him and each other. One of his supervisors suggested that he seat the students in traditional rows, instead of groups, because that can substantially help teachers who are struggling with classroom management. Students can't work together, but they also can't get distracted by each other and it's easier to keep everyone on task. He was horrified. They have to be in groups!

My first year, I desperately wanted my students to be in groups. But I quickly learned that I didn't have the classroom management skills to handle it. This year, all but one of my classes are in groups. That one? The kids are rowdy, and I don't have the classroom management skills yet to handle it. Because I'M STILL NEW. Just like Tom.

The principal is the one who gets the final say if someone is hired back. The 3 people (aside from myself) who know how bad it is are the support system. However, they all report to the principal, and word will get back to her eventually. There are already rumors that Tom's contract won't be renewed. But he still maintains his indifferent/know-it-all attitude whenever someone tries to help.

Has anyone actually said to him "if you don't make these changes, you won't have a job?"  Because right now it seems like everyone is talking to everyone else about Tom, yet he's not involved in the conversation at all.  I don't think anyone is doing him a favor by continuing to tiptoe around the conversation.  And if the mentors are not the ones to do this, then where is your principal.  If she's the one who gets to decide, she needs to let him know what he needs to do to keep his job.  That's a part of managing.  Losing a contract or being fired shouldn't be a surprise to people. They should at least know it's a possibility if they don't change their behavior. 
Maryland

artk2002

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10718 on: December 05, 2016, 06:23:46 PM »
Sounds like Tom is due for an official observation/evaluation. Perhaps a drop-in by someone in the administration, just to "check up."
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

whiterose

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10719 on: Yesterday at 10:32:42 AM »
How long has Tom lasted? At least in the schools where I work, behavior management was at best the most important thing by far, at worst the only thing that mattered.

I have mentioned this before- but I wonder if it affects the other side as well. Though I do admit to having difficulty managing behavior due to the discipline not coming naturally to me, the criticisms from the first principal I worked under felt like vixen devouring biscuits:

- She would say that at times I sounded like a programmed robot. Yet she would also complain that my voice's pitch and tempo would rise too much when I got nervous or excited.

- She said the questions on tests were "common sense". But what may be common sense to a 50 year old professional is not likely to be to a 13 year old student.

- She criticized the way I walked.

- And the way I intonated my responses.

- One time I stepped on a small piece of paper while delivering a lesson. A piece so small that I legitimately did not spot. She claimed that by doing so, I was telling the students that "it is okay to litter".

- Another time, she tried to stop me when I was leaving the classroom after the final class ended in order to go to the new teacher training workshop- which was at another school not super close by, and that would be starting in half an hour. I reminded her of it, and she was not happy.

- When I asked her what kind of reference she was willing to give me, she said she had not even thought about it. I asked again- and she said "depends on what they ask for- if they ask about punctuality, I will say that you were punctual".

I had the reference checked. And the professional reference checking service could tell that she was being extremely careful with what she was saying- almost as if she were being deliberately vague. More than one of the questions got non-answers, such as "What were her weaknesses?- New teachers often don't come with a set of skills, and they need to be developed" or "Would you recommend her for a similar position?- She knows the material well" and the sort.

This would not have done her any well. And she was the person who hired me- it was not like I was hired by somebody else, and she did not meet me till after I was hired. It certainly would have affected the morale of other teachers to see a new teacher scrutinized so much.

So I wonder how in the world is Tom making it so far along if he has so much difficulty managing behavior.

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Chickadee

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #10720 on: Yesterday at 10:49:14 AM »
It's state by state, but here in Alabama if you're a full-time employees your company is required to give you time off and pay your regular wages for the time you serve as a juror. This is just as well, because the state pays you $10/day and reimburses you for your mileage in getting to the courthouse - at a nickel a mile  :-\ Your company can require you to give them that $10/day, though. Most don't bother.

I wasn't expecting Alabama to have a law that requires the employer to pay you for your time on jury duty, that's an awesome surprise. Up here where we have mandated paid sick leave now, we don't even have mandated pay for jury duty.

It's always a nightmare when I've had jury duty getting the time off without hassle.

No snark intended, but why does it surprise you that Alabama has this law?

I'm so used to being taught up here that the southern states are "horrible to work in" and don't expect many employee favorable laws there. This is strictly my own ignorance showing after being born and raised in the land of labor unions and the push for nearly $15 an hour minimum wage that's coming about over the next 7 years or so.

Thanks for this. I just couldn't figure out why you were surprised  :). I think my critical thinking skills took a day off!