Author Topic: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.  (Read 8405 times)

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JeanFromBNA

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 06:41:52 PM »

I think it's very rude to ask others to subsidize your trip no matter how closely they are related, it puts people on the spot in ways that some people cannot say no to.  Your choice to travel, you pay for it.


Wouldn't we be asking them to subsidize their trip?  We're not asking them to pay for us.

JeanFromBNA

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2013, 06:50:58 PM »
Well, I think the thing is to just be aware. If someone bounces into the room and says, "Guess what, Molly? I bought you a pony! It will be so great, we can ride together, every girl should have a pony!" they may have the absolute best intentions, but it could go over like a ton of bricks with Molly's mom and maybe even Molly herself, because Pony-Giver is making a whole lot of assumptions about how Molly, her mom, and other affected people are going to feel.

But if someone goes to Molly's mom and says, "You know, growing up, I really loved having a pony, and it was good for me in a lot of ways. I wonder, have you ever thought about getting one for Molly? If you think she would like it, I would really enjoy being able to help with the purchase in XYZ way"--that to me is a better approach, which allows for Molly's mom to make her own judgment and to say no if she doesn't think it's right for her family, without causing bad feelings.

So if Samantha and John are cool with the other kids going, maybe you could approach Casey directly. "I would love to include the kids in our trip to WDW with Samantha's family. DH and I would really enjoy having them along. For everyone who goes on the trip we're offering to pay X and Y, leaving Z and N for each guest to pay themselves. Let me know what you think." I would emphasize that you're paying for X and Y because it makes you happy to share what you have with your friends, and not mention anything about people who can't afford things. I don't see how that would be offensive to a reasonable person, and Casey may very well be thrilled at the opportunity for her kids. I just think approaching it with the assumption that of course she'll be thrilled and agree, could make things awkward.
Our plan to invite the cousins is to first ask John and Samantha if they would like to have them along because they would have primary responsibility for them, then to ask Sam for advice on what her sister would think (if she doesn't volunteer it right away), and then ask Casey's permission.  We would not tell the cousins before their mother had a chance to fully vet the idea.  Thanks for your input on how to approach Casey.

Yvaine

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2013, 06:55:56 PM »

I think it's very rude to ask others to subsidize your trip no matter how closely they are related, it puts people on the spot in ways that some people cannot say no to.  Your choice to travel, you pay for it.


Wouldn't we be asking them to subsidize their trip?  We're not asking them to pay for us.

If I read the OP right, you'll be asking them to subsidize your plan to bring the kids along (while they, the grandparents, don't go).

JeanFromBNA

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 07:10:09 PM »

I think it's very rude to ask others to subsidize your trip no matter how closely they are related, it puts people on the spot in ways that some people cannot say no to.  Your choice to travel, you pay for it.


Wouldn't we be asking them to subsidize their trip?  We're not asking them to pay for us.

If I read the OP right, you'll be asking them to subsidize your plan to bring the kids along (while they, the grandparents, don't go).

Ah, Rosewater was referring to their grandparents.  I didn't understand that.  Thank you.

(Edited to fix quotes)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 12:58:47 PM by JeanFromBNA »

lowspark

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2013, 08:34:39 AM »
The dining plan that we're looking at costs $57/pp/day for adults, $18/pp for kids.  Disney considers anybody 10 and over an adult.  It includes one table service, one quick service, and one snack per day, and it usually works out pretty well.  I wonder if you are thinking of the deluxe plan, which is 3 table service meals per day.  That is too much food and takes too much time. We thought we'd stock the fridge and have breakfast and snacks in the room. 

That brings up another dilemma, though.  Asking the guests to pay for their own meals could result in two different vacations if DH and I go to restaurants for meals, and the guests go back to the condo because they are on a limited meal budget.  I don't think that DH would be happy eating dinner at the condo, or taking too much time at the resort.  It would be a very different vacation style for us.

I don't think you give them the option of eating at the condo or choosing to do their meals differently from you. You say, we'll pay for air fare and accommodations. Food Plan will cost $xx. And each person will need additional discretionary money to spend on extra food/drinks & souvenirs.

In other words, the cost of the trip for your guests is a minimum set amount (meal plan cost + whatever else you want them to pay for) + their "spending money" for fun stuff.

I thought about that but worried that it wasn't polite to tell them how much to pay for food.

Well, yeah, under normal circumstances it would be rude. If you said, "We're going to WDW, why don't y'all take a trip at the same time. We will all stay in xyz hotel, fly abc airline, eat all our meals together, etc. and by the way, we're planning everything and you get no say in what we choose or how much it costs." That's rude.

But this is different. You're paying for the bulk of the vacation which means you get to make the decisions. You're choosing to do the prepaid meal plan and everyone needs to go along with that in order for things to run smoothly. The whole point of inviting them along is so that you can share your vacation with all of them. If everyone goes running off in different directions, then essentially you've just paid their way for their independent vacation. You might as well just paid for them to go skiing in Colorado instead.

I don't think it's rude to say, "we're paying for airfare and accommodations and you'll need to pay for food and incidentals. Everyone will need to get the meal plan because we've found that it works best if we do that and have all our meals together."

shhh its me

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2013, 12:36:22 PM »
The dining plan that we're looking at costs $57/pp/day for adults, $18/pp for kids.  Disney considers anybody 10 and over an adult.  It includes one table service, one quick service, and one snack per day, and it usually works out pretty well.  I wonder if you are thinking of the deluxe plan, which is 3 table service meals per day.  That is too much food and takes too much time. We thought we'd stock the fridge and have breakfast and snacks in the room. 

That brings up another dilemma, though.  Asking the guests to pay for their own meals could result in two different vacations if DH and I go to restaurants for meals, and the guests go back to the condo because they are on a limited meal budget.  I don't think that DH would be happy eating dinner at the condo, or taking too much time at the resort.  It would be a very different vacation style for us.

I don't think you give them the option of eating at the condo or choosing to do their meals differently from you. You say, we'll pay for air fare and accommodations. Food Plan will cost $xx. And each person will need additional discretionary money to spend on extra food/drinks & souvenirs.

In other words, the cost of the trip for your guests is a minimum set amount (meal plan cost + whatever else you want them to pay for) + their "spending money" for fun stuff.

I thought about that but worried that it wasn't polite to tell them how much to pay for food.

Well, yeah, under normal circumstances it would be rude. If you said, "We're going to WDW, why don't y'all take a trip at the same time. We will all stay in xyz hotel, fly abc airline, eat all our meals together, etc. and by the way, we're planning everything and you get no say in what we choose or how much it costs." That's rude.

But this is different. You're paying for the bulk of the vacation which means you get to make the decisions. You're choosing to do the prepaid meal plan and everyone needs to go along with that in order for things to run smoothly. The whole point of inviting them along is so that you can share your vacation with all of them. If everyone goes running off in different directions, then essentially you've just paid their way for their independent vacation. You might as well just paid for them to go skiing in Colorado instead.

I don't think it's rude to say, "we're paying for airfare and accommodations and you'll need to pay for food and incidentals. Everyone will need to get the meal plan because we've found that it works best if we do that and have all our meals together."

I see your point but I think "you must eat dinner with us every night , you will be paying for it and we will pick the place."  is a bit rude. (op im not implying you would be a food dictator.) just telling someone to pay and not have input is rude , if we agreed to go on a gold outing and I was staying in your condo I think you can say "you'll cover your owe green fees" but not "and you WILL dine with me at  the club house and spend $30 on dinner and I insist you spend $27 a day on snacks and lunch." *note I know the meal plan is an average daily for the whole trip* In that example the trip is a "golf trip" so golf is exactly what I'm agreeing to and yes I plan to spend additional time with you and Im sure some of that time will be spent eating but I may not want to spend every diner exactly the way you do if I'm paying for my food I expect to get a say what I spend my money on.  Unless it's a foodie vacation where the main point of the trip is food related activities.     At the same time I don't think "we'll each chip in $300" for food is rude, I;d expect to have some say in the food though. 

I think OP can say "we've found the meal plan worked very well , it covers snacks a quick cafeteria style meal and a sit down meal daily. that way we can xxxx , yyyy, zzzz. together."  but then her guests can say "no we don't want to do at all yyyy an only want to do zz."   If I recall correctly and it hasn't changed the meal plan costs $57 but you can spend $65 (or something like that) because your prepaying you get a bonus. You also have to have the meal plan for every day and person in your party. The entire parties meal plan is added together so its great for people with the right kid to adult ratio.   

OP I might do something like "We'd like to take everyone to dinner at fav restaurant 1 , 2 and 3 during the trip and take the family to character  meal a or b . beyond that everyone will cover their own meals/we'll go dutch."  or something to that effect.  ie plan to take 7 people to less meals so your budget is the same as it was for 5 people.   I do think you can ask for the airfare for the 2 extra people.

amylouky

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2013, 12:47:39 PM »
I think, A, you should not ask the grandparents to chip in.
B, I don't think you should invite the cousins if their mother is not included. I get that you feel bad that they may not get to go due to Casey's finances, but I think it's awkward to invite your neighbors, their mother, their kids, and Casey's kids, but not Casey. Also, I would want to share in my kids' first WDW experience, and having someone take them because they can afford it and I can't would make me feel awful. Please don't interpret that as that I think you are bad for thinking about it, because it's a wonderful and generous offer.
C, I think if you offer airfare and accomodations, and possibly theme park tickets, but asked everyone to pay for their meal plans, that might allow you to invite everyone? And since you'd be using the WDW vacation club points and airfare miles, it might make it seem less like charity for Casey (that may or may not even be an issue, but I know a lot of people would be too proud to accept something like that).

I hope things work out, it sounds like a lot of fun!

gramma dishes

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2013, 12:53:03 PM »
I fear that for the guests though, what started out as an incredibly generous gift is turning into a situation where they'd end up spending far more money than they would if they just stayed home. 

I would not ask the other Grandma to spend her money so that the other two children can go on your trip.  It puts her in a very uncomfortable position.  She may not really be as able to afford it as you think.  She may have other grandchildren that she tries very hard to 'spend equally' on.  There are all kinds of reasons that I do not think this is a good (or even fair) proposition.
And I say this as a grandmother.

shhh its me

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2013, 01:06:05 PM »
I think, A, you should not ask the grandparents to chip in.
B, I don't think you should invite the cousins if their mother is not included. I get that you feel bad that they may not get to go due to Casey's finances, but I think it's awkward to invite your neighbors, their mother, their kids, and Casey's kids, but not Casey. Also, I would want to share in my kids' first WDW experience, and having someone take them because they can afford it and I can't would make me feel awful. Please don't interpret that as that I think you are bad for thinking about it, because it's a wonderful and generous offer.
C, I think if you offer airfare and accomodations, and possibly theme park tickets, but asked everyone to pay for their meal plans, that might allow you to invite everyone? And since you'd be using the WDW vacation club points and airfare miles, it might make it seem less like charity for Casey (that may or may not even be an issue, but I know a lot of people would be too proud to accept something like that).

I hope things work out, it sounds like a lot of fun!

The good news is OP can chose to just not invite the extra 2 cousins. 

I think it depends a lot on the family dynamics.  Some family's going with cousins on big trips is within normal.

Adding kids is a little different then adding adults because of sleeping arrangements.  The condo sleeps 5 adults and 4 kids.  Btw if it slept 6 adults and 4 kids I would extend the same invite to Casey, " we have room for 3 more and will take you to x y z , you'll have to get their yourself there and cover your own food.  If you would want just the kids to go that's ok too"   *note after making sure the adults who will be in charge of the kids agree.

Lynn2000

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2013, 01:08:23 PM »
It does seem like the meal plan could be tricky. Being told, either through host expectation or the provided package meal plan, that everyone had to spend every meal together, or otherwise had to do things in a very strict way, would make things not so much fun for me. If I got tired, or one or more of the kids did, and we just wanted to go back to the room and rest and have a light meal from groceries, I wouldn't want to feel like I was disappointing people or ruining the plan or wasting money (especially someone else's). Yet at the same time, you're constrained by the rules of the available meal plan.

If possible, it might be better to let people pay for their own meal plan, so that even if they end up not using part of it, they won't feel like they're wasting someone else's money, at least. Maybe that rationale could work for having people pay for their own park tickets as well--again, if they feel like lounging by the hotel pool or something instead, it will just be their own money, and not yours. Whereas with the accommodations and the airfare, those are things that everyone will definitely be using to their full extent.

Yet, I do think it's a good point about "separate vacations"--if the group splits up too much, you may start to wonder why you even invited them. OP, I think you said you've traveled with John and Samantha before, right, so you should have a sense of whether you're "vacation compatible" with them already. As a general rule I would suggest coming up with a plan that everyone has input on, but when you're actually on the ground, trying to be flexible so that if people change their minds, get tired, etc., it doesn't become a big thing that ruins the time for everyone else. Easier said than done, I know, and one reason why I don't like group outings in general. :)
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JeanFromBNA

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2013, 02:59:46 PM »
We will not ask their grandparents for money.  Y'all have convinced me that was wrong, and I thank you for helping me keep out of trouble.

We planned to work with John and Samantha about when they would like to go (with the restriction that we won't go during Thanksgiving or Christmas break - those weeks are crazy and more expensive), how long they would like to stay, and the itinerary.  The accommodations will be our choice because it will be limited to the DVC condos that are available when we want to go.  All of the DVC properties are in deluxe resorts, so regardless of where we stay, the accommodations will be nice. 

I planned to work with Sam on the itinerary:  What parks on which days, what shows they might want to see, when they might want downtime.  Once that is done, we would pick which sit-down restaurants or dinner shows we want to see.  We have found that making dinner reservations is much easier on your nerves than waiting an hour for a table or having to grab a burger somewhere because someone is starving and they want to eat right now.  If plans change, most reservations can be cancelled without penalty, and Disney has an ap for that.  Some charge a no-show fee, so we'll have to be aware of that. 

(snip) But this is different. You're paying for the bulk of the vacation which means you get to make the decisions. You're choosing to do the prepaid meal plan and everyone needs to go along with that in order for things to run smoothly. The whole point of inviting them along is so that you can share your vacation with all of them. If everyone goes running off in different directions, then essentially you've just paid their way for their independent vacation. You might as well just paid for them to go skiing in Colorado instead.

Yet, I do think it's a good point about "separate vacations"--if the group splits up too much, you may start to wonder why you even invited them. (snip)

Yes, we hoped to share our vacation with them.  I don't think that we need to all be joined at the hip.  We anticipate that some people may want more time at the resort to rest, because WDW can be the vacation that fights back.  However, if everybody is going to do their own thing, then it would be simpler to just book DVC and airline reservations for them.

Still not sure about the cousins.  I'm a little leery of asking now because it seems possible to insult a parent by asking; kind of like the Santa present thread.

caz

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2013, 04:16:16 AM »
ON the flip side, if you DON'T ask, the children will miss out.  I think it's a lovely gesture and it would be nice for you to offer :)

Lynn2000

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2013, 10:15:48 AM »
ON the flip side, if you DON'T ask, the children will miss out.  I think it's a lovely gesture and it would be nice for you to offer :)

Yes, I think if John and Samantha are cool with it, and your own desires and financial plan allow for it, it would be a nice offer. Maybe Samantha (or John, I forget which one is related to her) would have some tips about how to approach Casey about it? I think it's not inherently rude to ask Casey, by any means. It's just that there are rude ways to ask, and polite ways to ask.

One question--if Casey's kids weren't going, would that change any of your plans? Like, if they go, you pay for X and Y for six guests, but if they don't go, you pay for X, Y, and Z for four guests? I'm sure John and Samantha are nice people who wouldn't think this way, but maybe you want to avoid creating a conflict of interest, where it would be cheaper for John and Samantha if their niece and nephew didn't go...
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JeanFromBNA

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2013, 10:46:31 AM »
Samantha and Casey are sisters, so Sam would know best how/if she could be asked.  I'm concerned about the comments that it was rude to include her kids but not ask Casey.  Paying for Casey definitely isn't in our budget, plus we would have to get an additional or bigger condo. 

Lynn, you have identified the situation with taking the cousins.  We could afford more if we take fewer people. 

DH and I discussed this, and his idea was to ask for $300/pp from everyone to help offset costs, and we will still pay for everything else except souvenirs.  My gut says this is rude.  We've never charged our guests for any hospitality when we host.  OTOH, that is still far less than the cheapest WDW vacation.  What do you all think?

I am grateful to everyone who has taken the time to help me work through this.  Your input has been invaluable. 

mandycorn

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Re: Offering an all expenses paid trip to almost everyone.
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2013, 11:08:02 AM »
I think it would be better to tell them how much you'll cover (either a list of things, or up to a particular dollar amount) and let them know that they'll be responsible for the remaining $300 (or more, if they want to join you on more expensive meals and such) but I don't think you can ask them to give you the money. To me, that's where it seems to cross the line from treating them to some activities while they pay their own way to others to charging them a fee for your hospitality.
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