Author Topic: Do I have to invite _him_?  (Read 14692 times)

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lellah

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
I guess I'm trying to work some sort of crazy, non-confrontational magic here. 

Not inviting Hortense is a huge problem for my mother.  Or it will be.  I haven't brought it up.  But it's going to be perceived by my mom, and possibly Hortense, as a major slight.  Hortense threw a recent baby shower for my brother and sister-in-law.  She served cake at another brother's wedding.  In my hometown that's a big time honor for older women, wedding partywise.  So she's firmly ensconced as "friend of family."

But having Hector there is a huge problem for me.  For instance: upon meeting my fiancÚ (who's ten years my senior), he told me that he had no idea an older man could keep up with me.  Ick, ick, ick.

Zilla

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 12:27:18 PM »
So to be straight.  It will be a huge issue/slight for you mom to leave off Hector.  But it will also be a huge issue for you to have him there.  And it's a huge issue/slight for leave off Hortense.  Yep, it's a pickle.


Honestly, you will have to choose the lesser of the three evils and live with upsetting someone somehow.  Only thing I can think of is to host a small ladies only luncheon right after and invite Hortense to that along with your mom and maybe your sil?  That way you can celebrate your engagement and still involve Hortense.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 12:32:13 PM by Zilla »

lowspark

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 12:28:15 PM »
...
 both of my parents would really, really prefer I not rock the boat with this.
...

Then there's your answer. You either invite both or neither.
You're inviting her sort of on behalf of your mother, or as an acknowledgement of how kind she's been to your mother. So you need to honor how your mother feels about this. If you invite her but not him, and it ends up making your mother feel embarrassed or ashamed, well, then, what was the point of inviting her at all? Because this isn't solely about Hortense, it's about your mother's feelings too since your mother's friendship is the exact reason you're inviting her.

Isn't this mostly about OP's feelings as hostess? OP has a responsibility that goes way beyond her mother and Hortence to be kind and gracious to herself and the rest of her guests. This is a man who apparently leers at or makes crude comments to tweens and young teenagers as well as grown women. He might not be physically molesting them but he's still creating a horrible atmosphere. If the OP knowingly invites him, then she is by her actions condoning and welcoming his lecherous behavior towards her guests.

By this, I mean, inviting Hortense, not the party as a whole. Yeah, the party as a whole is about OP and yes she needs to figure out what she is comfortable with as a hostess.

But inviting Hortense is due to her mother's friendship with Hortense so that is about her mother's feelings as well as OP's and Hortense's.

Shoo

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 12:30:18 PM »
...
 both of my parents would really, really prefer I not rock the boat with this.
...

Then there's your answer. You either invite both or neither.
You're inviting her sort of on behalf of your mother, or as an acknowledgement of how kind she's been to your mother. So you need to honor how your mother feels about this. If you invite her but not him, and it ends up making your mother feel embarrassed or ashamed, well, then, what was the point of inviting her at all? Because this isn't solely about Hortense, it's about your mother's feelings too since your mother's friendship is the exact reason you're inviting her.


I agree.

I do too

Same here.  I am leaning toward inviting neither.  Hortense has decided (for her own reasons) to stay with Horrible Hector, therefore she's going to have to live with the consequences of that decision, which means she may not get invited to events because no one wants her husband around.

WillyNilly

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 12:32:05 PM »
...
 both of my parents would really, really prefer I not rock the boat with this.
...

Then there's your answer. You either invite both or neither.
You're inviting her sort of on behalf of your mother, or as an acknowledgement of how kind she's been to your mother. So you need to honor how your mother feels about this. If you invite her but not him, and it ends up making your mother feel embarrassed or ashamed, well, then, what was the point of inviting her at all? Because this isn't solely about Hortense, it's about your mother's feelings too since your mother's friendship is the exact reason you're inviting her.

Isn't this mostly about OP's feelings as hostess? OP has a responsibility that goes way beyond her mother and Hortence to be kind and gracious to herself and the rest of her guests. This is a man who apparently leers at or makes crude comments to tweens and young teenagers as well as grown women. He might not be physically molesting them but he's still creating a horrible atmosphere. If the OP knowingly invites him, then she is by her actions condoning and welcoming his lecherous behavior towards her guests.

By this, I mean, inviting Hortense, not the party as a whole. Yeah, the party as a whole is about OP and yes she needs to figure out what she is comfortable with as a hostess.

But inviting Hortense is due to her mother's friendship with Hortense so that is about her mother's feelings as well as OP's and Hortense's.

See I just don't think it can be broken down that much. The bigger issue - the whole issue - is Hector. Hortense and the mother are merely players in the issue, not the issue. There is no question of Hortense being welcome.

nyarlathotep

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 01:03:10 PM »
TBH, I think you also have a responsibility to the other female guests not to expose them to a creep.

But while I wouldn't normally condone enabling his behaviour, might it be possible to assign him a "babysitter"? Maybe one who's prepared to be blunt with him.

Very blunt.

Venus193

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 01:10:26 PM »
TBH, I think you also have a responsibility to the other female guests not to expose them to a creep.

But while I wouldn't normally condone enabling his behaviour, might it be possible to assign him a "babysitter"? Maybe one who's prepared to be blunt with him.

Very blunt.

This.  I would recommend a man who outweighs him by at least 20 lbs.

shhh its me

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2013, 01:11:31 PM »
   OP I think you have to invite both or neither IF and only if you know for  a fact Hortense considered her a husband a bore and she herself did not wish to include him *just to be clear the only way you could know this is if she told you expressly no reading between the lines* then you could exclude him.  The other option is to have a laides luncheon as a PP suggested. 

As it appears he has been invited to everything up to this point I think it would be a huge deal not to invite him with his wife.

nyarlathotep

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2013, 01:13:09 PM »
TBH, I think you also have a responsibility to the other female guests not to expose them to a creep.

But while I wouldn't normally condone enabling his behaviour, might it be possible to assign him a "babysitter"? Maybe one who's prepared to be blunt with him.

Very blunt.

This.  I would recommend a man who outweighs him by at least 20 lbs.

Yes! And preferably one who can actually spot when other guys are being creepy (rather than just making excuses for him - "He's just being frieeeendly" - like far too many dudes I know).

Carotte

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 01:30:02 PM »
It's quite a pickle, and it doesn't seem to be the popular choice, but I say invite Hortense alone.
She will be happy, your mother will be happy, you will be happy and whatever happens the gossipers will gossip.
And amongst those female gossipers that will attend your party, I'm pretty sure most will be happy not to have Hector creeping them or their daughter/nieces out.

If someone comments on it, maybe Hortense herself will say something like "oh, Hector couldn't come today, but I'm happy to celebrate this engagement!", at least you know she won't say "what an affront, I'll never talk to this family ever again because of this slight" and that's the only thing that matter.

One poster said that she has to live with the fact that she is staying with her husband, true, but I say, cut her some slack, she has to live with her husband! let her have some nice time whitout worrying that her husband will embarrass her and bother every female guest.
If they where actively divorcing but still legally married wouldn't most say that it's OK to only invite her?

shhh its me

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 01:43:48 PM »
It's quite a pickle, and it doesn't seem to be the popular choice, but I say invite Hortense alone.
She will be happy, your mother will be happy, you will be happy and whatever happens the gossipers will gossip.
And amongst those female gossipers that will attend your party, I'm pretty sure most will be happy not to have Hector creeping them or their daughter/nieces out.

If someone comments on it, maybe Hortense herself will say something like "oh, Hector couldn't come today, but I'm happy to celebrate this engagement!", at least you know she won't say "what an affront, I'll never talk to this family ever again because of this slight" and that's the only thing that matter.

One poster said that she has to live with the fact that she is staying with her husband, true, but I say, cut her some slack, she has to live with her husband! let her have some nice time whitout worrying that her husband will embarrass her and bother every female guest.
If they where actively divorcing but still legally married wouldn't most say that it's OK to only invite her?

this is why I don't think OP can do this ...
quote
Not inviting Hortense is a huge problem for my mother.  Or it will be.  I haven't brought it up.  But it's going to be perceived by my mom, and possibly Hortense, as a major slight.

IF op was reasonable sure(80%+) Hortense would not take offense I might say "risk it" op is no where near sure enough to risk it. 

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »
Ayiyi, that is a pickle.  I have an uncle like Hector.  Thank heaven it's by marriage and I can say I'm not biologically related to the oaf.  And thankfully for my FOO, he dislikes being around them as much as they like having him around. 

But I do remember when my folks stopped having parties at my grandparents house because he would come to those and drink till he sounded like the one guy on King of the Hill, then flirt with anything female, younger the better.  :P Eventually my folks just stopped having the parties because he made everyone uncomfortable.

I do think a ladies luncheon might be the best option.
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DavidH

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2013, 02:13:22 PM »
I think that whatever his shortcomings, they are a couple and it's either both, neither, or a gender specific function.  Inviting her alone knowing it will offend her and will make your mother uncomfortable seems like a poor choice to me and rude both for splitting up a social unit and knowingly offending two people at your function. 

Basically, I think you need come up with a list of pros and cons to each solution and then pick the best one. 

lowspark

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2013, 02:20:32 PM »
No matter what you do, someone is going to be unhappy.
If you invite Hortense but not Hector, your parents will be unhappy, and potentially Hortense will be unhappy.
If you invite neither, your parents will be unhappy and Hortense will feel slighted.
If you invite Hector with Hortense, you (and your guests) will be unhappy.

Personally, I'd be looking at making myself (and partner) happy first. It's your party, your engagement.
So it seems to me that Hortense without Hector is the least bad of the three options. But if you're going to do that, you probably ought to have a chat with your parents first and just lay it on the line. This is what I'm going to do... I know you aren't happy, but it's my party and my decision.

Just one additional thing to think about. This is an engagement party so I assume the wedding will follow. It's one thing to not invite someone (Hortense and/or Hector) to the engagement party, but it's probably going to be a huge big deal to exclude either or both from the wedding.

NyaChan

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Re: Do I have to invite _him_?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 02:21:11 PM »
I think inviting her alone is going to have a lot of negative backlash for you and your parents, not to mention imagine embarrass Hortense socially.  Is it really fair to open your parents up to that (I think Hortense has opened herself up to this) by doing something they don't agree with or have control over?  I would either make it a ladies only function or drop her from the invite list.  Explain to your mother that inviting Hector isn't an option, but you wouldn't ever embarrass her by inviting Hortense alone so....  ;)  I find people respond more favorably when actions are explained in terms of how much you intended to help and accommodate them.

ETA:  Missed that it is an engagement party.  Nevermind the ladies only bit, I would either accept that Hector will be at large during the party and perhaps tell your close female guests that it okay for them to point out that he being inappropriate, or not invite Hortense at all. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:23:12 PM by NyaChan »