Author Topic: Bringing back a banned cheer  (Read 12255 times)

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shhh its me

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2013, 11:03:30 AM »
Firstly I would consider my feelings and the young ladies feelings just to be sure I wasn't replacing how I would feel with how she's feels.

I would show the coach the video. 

I would also talk to the mom who posted it. Unless you are 100% absolutely positive that she knows both the coaches history and the history of the cheer and towns reaction to the coaches actions.  I'm assuming she post the vid because her younger kids were being taught a cheer by some of the older boys involved in the activity. That she may not know her kids are being "mentored" by boys doing something this at best insensitive at worst harassing.  I would want to know I think you would want to know too, let her know.  I think of it the same way I would if someone didn't speak English and posted a vid of their kids being taught a song riff with innuendo by young men.   

I'm debating whether I would speak to the young men teaching the boys. The boys may be intensive or they may be intentionally inflicting emotionally harm. 


Turtel Dove.  Do you mean you don't understand why it would upset the girl or you don't think other people should stop using the cheer.


I think using the cheer still could be seen "solidarity" with the coach. 

We cant ban ever famous piece of work composed by a person who committed a terrible crime but I wouldn't use a piece of music by a singer/composer/song witter to be sung/shouted at one one of their victims by the crowd.

audrey1962

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2013, 11:09:08 AM »
The "main" girl is still very much involved and remains very upset, but quiet about it.

I'm taking a different perspective: the girl is upset. What are her parents doing about this? Is it possible they are handling this on their own? Are they taking the advice of a therapist? Or are they asking you to talk to the coach because you are close to him?

TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 11:15:10 AM »
Turtel Dove.  Do you mean you don't understand why it would upset the girl or you don't think other people should stop using the cheer.

I mean I think the girl is upset, but I don't think the logical reaction is to ban everyone else from ever using a cheer that really has nothing to do with why she is upset. The actual words of the cheer might make a difference, but assuming it is a general school spirit cheer I don't think it is logical to connect the cheer with the bad acts of the guy who made it up.  I certainly don't view it as somehow supporting his actions or turning him into a hero.

I think any drive to officially ban the cheer should come from the girl or her parents, not the OP.  And if I were among the voters, I would not be likely to ban the cheer.

Twik

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2013, 11:19:12 AM »
Well, with the St. Mary's debacle so fresh, I think that it would be a good time for the coaches to (1) make sure they are aware of what cheers are being used by the team, and (2) have a talk with the team members about behaving as responsible, caring members of society.

While I see where Turtledove is coming from (if the cheer doesn't name the coach or encourage bad behaviour, it shouldn't be harmful), the thought struck me that if the coach had, say, murdered the entire PTA, people would not want his artistic endeavors used for building team spirit afterwards. While that's an extreme, what he did was, short of violence, as big a betrayal as possible for someone who works with young people. So, I can see why a cheer that everyone knows is his handiwork is upsetting even to those not directly affected by his vile behaviour, let alone those who were.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Lynn2000

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2013, 11:21:47 AM »
I'm kind of torn. I guess I feel like, overall, it's just a cheer--it's brief, ephemeral, and there are surely a lot of them in the world to choose from, so chucking it quietly aside for a few more years doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Especially since the incident was so recent that one of the victims is still on the team--that must be less than five years, right? And, to my mind, how brilliant could this cheer possibly be, that some people aren't willing to give it up--surely we're not talking a Shakespearean epic here or something where you could argue that the "art" trumps the "artist." It would be different, to my mind, if the source of anxiety was a logo the old coach created, which was emblazoned on every uniform, notebook, and even the gym floor, which would be rather more difficult to erase.

But on the other hand, I do see the slippery slope argument. I feel like the cheer could become, or perhaps already has become, something more than a cheer. Obviously, to the victim and other people (like the OP), it's a reminder of a horrible thing that happened not very long ago. But I worry that to some of the older kids who are encouraging its use, it might also become a kind of protest against what happened to the coach, since they consider what he did "no big deal." It could be used in a harassing way against the victims.

I would want to know why the older kids were encouraging its use. If they just like the cheer and think it's cool and don't associate it with anything bad, even though they know who came up with it, surely they could be persuaded that, for the good of the team, they shouldn't use it, because it means something bad to at least one teammate, and there are lots of cool cheers in the world. Maybe their energies could be redirected into coming up with a new, original cheer instead.

As for what the OP should do: If I understand correctly, she's not officially associated with the team or anything like that, right? I think it might carry a certain amount of weight if she approached the head coach as simply a member of the community who attends the games and supports the team, who finds the use of this cheer disturbing for herself (without mentioning the victim at all). She heard them using it and felt sick, and could no longer concentrate on the sport but just kept thinking about what the old coach had done and all the heartache it caused the community. In her opinion, she wishes the head coach would not allow the kids to use the cheer so soon after the incident, if at all. I think this would be perfectly polite and appropriate, and not give away any confidences she might have received. It would be natural to point out the video on a public Facebook page as the way she learned about the cheer's use. Then I would just keep an eye on things and see how the coach handled it.
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Yvaine

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2013, 11:22:13 AM »
Turtel Dove.  Do you mean you don't understand why it would upset the girl or you don't think other people should stop using the cheer.

I mean I think the girl is upset, but I don't think the logical reaction is to ban everyone else from ever using a cheer that really has nothing to do with why she is upset. The actual words of the cheer might make a difference, but assuming it is a general school spirit cheer I don't think it is logical to connect the cheer with the bad acts of the guy who made it up.  I certainly don't view it as somehow supporting his actions or turning him into a hero.

I think any drive to officially ban the cheer should come from the girl or her parents, not the OP.  And if I were among the voters, I would not be likely to ban the cheer.

Do you think that, if it turns out that the girl does not want to do the cheer because of its association with this pervert, she should be made to do it along with everyone else? I doubt she gets to pick and choose what team activities she will be involved in, and I also don't think she should have to quit the team (in order to avoid it) on top of what she has already suffered. There are a million cheers out there. Why do they have to do this one?

It may not be "logical" but I do think her feelings are the paramount consideration here. It may be true that the OP isn't the ideal person to lead the charge, but I don't think this girl should have to do the cheer if she doesn't want to.

Yvaine

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2013, 11:29:45 AM »
But on the other hand, I do see the slippery slope argument. I feel like the cheer could become, or perhaps already has become, something more than a cheer. Obviously, to the victim and other people (like the OP), it's a reminder of a horrible thing that happened not very long ago. But I worry that to some of the older kids who are encouraging its use, it might also become a kind of protest against what happened to the coach, since they consider what he did "no big deal." It could be used in a harassing way against the victims.

Oh, wow. This hadn't even occurred to me but makes a sick sort of sense--the possibility that the guys may be intentionally using it to harass. Yuck. Poor girl.

shhh its me

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2013, 11:33:44 AM »
  If I understand correctly this is a community activity and the team does not start the cheer officially anymore , its either the crowed or a few members starting it up .

I'm thinking its something like "go tigers go go go rawr rawr rawr"

TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2013, 11:42:30 AM »
I didn't see anywhere that the girl was being forced to do the cheer.  Are we talking about a cheerleading squad and she is on it? I thought it was more a crowd participation thing.

shhh its me posted as I did.  I really think the actual cheer makes a big difference.  I just don't think you can unofficially ban a crowd favorite when it's crowd initiated.  If this is a cheerleading squad and the girl is on the squad and is being asked to lead the cheer that would make a difference.  But I didn't not get the sense that is the case at all.

I also don't see where this is being used to harrass.  Again, I doubt "everyone" even knows who made up the cheer.  To me it seems more likely that the cheer is simply catchy and a crowd favorite and few people are linking this to the creepy coach aside from the girl and the OP.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 11:45:51 AM by TurtleDove »

Twik

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2013, 11:46:02 AM »
I think if the cheer is generally identified as "Coach Slimy's Cheer," in the minds of the students, it should be banned, just as racist, homophobic, sexist or otherwise offensive cheers would be banned, even if they are "crowd favourites". The team management must make it clear that the coach's behaviour makes him is unworthy to be associated with them. It is frightening, but many young people will not "get" that Coach Slimy actually did anything wrong, unless it's made very visible.

I'm pretty sure that Jerry Sandusky's contributions to pep rallies have been purged at his alma mater.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2013, 11:47:32 AM »
I think if the cheer is generally identified as "Coach Slimy's Cheer," in the minds of the students, it should be banned. The team management must make it clear that his behaviour makes him is unworthy to be associated with them. It is frightening, but many young people will not "get" that Coach Slimy actually did anything wrong, unless it's made very visible.

I'm pretty sure that Jerry Sandusky's contributions to pep rallies have been purged at his alma mater.

Yes, this I agree with, depending on what the actual cheer is.  A "go tigers, go-go-go tigers!" cheer is not at all the same as "Coach Creepy leads the best!  Let's exalt him above the rest!"

shhh its me

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2013, 11:58:31 AM »
I didn't see anywhere that the girl was being forced to do the cheer.  Are we talking about a cheerleading squad and she is on it? I thought it was more a crowd participation thing.

shhh its me posted as I did.  I really think the actual cheer makes a big difference.  I just don't think you can unofficially ban a crowd favorite when it's crowd initiated.  If this is a cheerleading squad and the girl is on the squad and is being asked to lead the cheer that would make a difference.  But I didn't not get the sense that is the case at all.

I also don't see where this is being used to harrass.  Again, I doubt "everyone" even knows who made up the cheer.  To me it seems more likely that the cheer is simply catchy and a crowd favorite and few people are linking this to the creepy coach aside from the girl and the OP.

I think op's issue was 3 men who know who composed the cheer and know what he did are teaching it to those new to the activity, intentionally perpetuating it. 

 

Yvaine

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2013, 12:00:46 PM »
I didn't see anywhere that the girl was being forced to do the cheer.  Are we talking about a cheerleading squad and she is on it? I thought it was more a crowd participation thing.

I don't know if it's cheerleading or if it's (for example) another sport and the athletes do cheers when they're on the bench, but it's the team itself that's doing the chant. Not the audience. Older team members are teaching the cheer to everyone else, and the team is doing it.

Allyson

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2013, 12:32:02 PM »
I think that it's just too soon to bring it back, and it seems a little bit like people want to bring it back to make a *point* about the creepy dude being treated "unfairly" rather than them just really liking the cheer and wishing to see it unassociated from bad coach.

The fact that these guys don't take what happened seriously is disturbing, and if they're using the cheer to make a point about that, that is *really* not cool. But if it was something like, oh, some parents remembered the cheer, liked it and started it again with only a vague memory of where it came from, I'd have less of an issue with that.

I don't think it should be banned forever. That gives bad coach too much power. But is it really that hard to avoid it for a few years, anyway? There are a ton of other cheers out there.

Twik

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2013, 12:38:42 PM »
I think that it's just too soon to bring it back, and it seems a little bit like people want to bring it back to make a *point* about the creepy dude being treated "unfairly" rather than them just really liking the cheer and wishing to see it unassociated from bad coach.

The fact that these guys don't take what happened seriously is disturbing, and if they're using the cheer to make a point about that, that is *really* not cool.

Pod.

But is it really that hard to avoid it for a few years, anyway? There are a ton of other cheers out there.

And pod again.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."